Is a hybrid right for my commute?

[doublebase]

I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about.

I just looked at Craigslist locally. This is literally the 3rd car I looked at. This search took me less time than typing this response, maybe 40 seconds.

A 1999 Mercury V8, with 146k miles. Will do 25mpg on the road. These are tanks. Safe, reliable, former fleet cars, easy to work on, and will go 300k miles if maintained. At 30k per year, you'd pile on 5 years of trouble free driving. If all highway, you might get 500k miles on this car. Look at how clean and well cared for this car is! $2000. Two grand. I'm tempted to go buy it but I see deals like this all the time.

https://harrisburg.craigslist.org/ctd/d/burlington-1999-mercury-grand-marquis/7350599065.html

See, I think I honesty do know what I’m talking about. I’m an ASE master certified technician with over 25 years of experience and I run a large repair facility. And I have driven cars to 300,000 miles, myself, personally. And looking at you post about how easy it is to keep a car 40-50 years with little effort...not only makes me laugh my brains out, but makes me question your knowledge of cars to the point that I’m now starting to get secondary embarrassment for you.

That very car you point out (a very reliable car), I spent years working on. And you are not putting 500,000 miles on that car without effort (as good as that car is). Never mind the 32 year old Honda you listed or the Mitsubishi (<<<I almost threw up even typing Mitsubishi).

 

[CharlesInCharge]

See, I think I honesty do know what I’m talking about. I’m an ASE master certified technician with over 25 years of experience and I run a large repair facility. And I have driven cars to 300,000 miles, myself, personally. And looking at you post about how easy it is to keep a car 40-50 years with little effort...not only makes me laugh my brains out, but makes me question your knowledge of cars to the point that I’m now starting to get secondary embarrassment for you.

That very car you point out (a very reliable car), I spent years working on. And you are not putting 500,000 miles on that car without effort (as good as that car is). Never mind the 32 year old Honda you listed or the Mitsubishi (

No offense, but I am routinely UNIMPRESSED by people who lean on credentials. I know more stupid mechanics, lawyers, technicians, Soldiers, etc. than smart ones. Credentials don't seem to mean as much as people think they do.

I've also driven plenty, and own or owned many vehicles into the 200,000+ mile territory and most of them had plenty of life left. I will say that the 1980s was an especially bad era for quality and anything pre-1990 is probably not going to be around much, especially since cash for clunkers junked a big portion of them. In spite of my examples above of my neighbors. But nearly anything cared for and serviced per the manual since 1990s, is on the roads today absent neglect and accidents.

Perhaps it's the definition of "little effort." By "little effort," I mean, not a major "pull the engine out and rebuild it" overhaul. Or drop the transmission and pull it out, and source a new one, and replace it.

Change the fluids and filters regularly, service the differentials, do the maintenance in the manual at the correct intervals, change the belts and plugs as needed, wash it as needed (more in the rust belt, with underside), wax it, and absent a lemon you're going to get 300k out of nearly anything built since 1990.

And I should probably tap out at this point. I've said my piece, and not here to get into any contest of wills. I've given prudent advice, and proven in 5 minutes that there's plenty of excellent 100-150,000 mile cars for a few thousand bucks on the market. If one looks, they are out there, they aren't going to have the wheels fall off, etc. I own 10 vehicles and they average about 20 years old, and I'd take any of them across country today without a single concern. I am confident they'd make the 6000 mile round trip nary a issue.

 

[Nick1994]

Sorta surprised at the worry about driving an older car, especially on a gearhead and oil-nut forum. Oh well.

That's what makes this a great forum, everyone thinks differently.

I do appreciate cars. My daily driver is a 420hp Genesis, it's a luxury rocketship. My Camry is a legendary reliable machine. I'm not sure there's a car out there that's more well known for what it is. My Jeep has an inline-6 engine and 4x4 with a great reputation.

I don't worry about long trips with either of those old beasts. But I understand the potential that they are sometimes out of commission for repairs.

If you figure someone drives 20k miles a year for 10 years in a 2021 Camry hybrid vs a 2000 Camry (like mine) here's the price difference.

2021 Camry hybrid purchase price: $30,000
2000 Camry purchase price: $2,000

2021 Camry hybrid fuel cost: $12,000
2000 Camry fuel cost: $24,000

2021 Camry hybrid repairs: Probably $1,000
2000 Camry repairs: Probably $1,000 per year, so $10,000 total

2021 Camry hybrid value after 10 years: $7,000
2000 Camry value after 10 years: $1,000

2021 Camry hybrid cost after 10 years: $36,000
2000 Camry cost after 10 years: $35,000

So you save $100 a year by driving an old beater compared to buying a brand new car.

 

[4WD]

My Jag gets 27MPG. That's good for an AWD "winter" car. But I'm carrying things like this (heavy aircraft support tooling or parts) on these long trips:
The 2nd week in Sept, I'm going to have to move it all back down to FL. Heck Monday's trip is going to be at least 500 pounds worth of boxes of paperwork, records and books, and some tooling. It's also common to carry 2 to 4 executive aircraft seats and an entire setup for a crew rest area (pilot's sleeping configuration) Just can't do that with a car.

One of our seats:

That seat is for this:

One of my seats:

 

[CharlesInCharge]

That's what makes this a great forum, everyone thinks differently.

I do appreciate cars. My daily driver is a 420hp Genesis, it's a luxury rocketship. My Camry is a legendary reliable machine. I'm not sure there's a car out there that's more well known for what it is. My Jeep has an inline-6 engine and 4x4 with a great reputation.

I don't worry about long trips with either of those old beasts. But I understand the potential that they are sometimes out of commission for repairs.

If you figure someone drives 20k miles a year for 10 years in a 2021 Camry hybrid vs a 2000 Camry (like mine) here's the price difference.

2021 Camry hybrid purchase price: $30,000
2000 Camry purchase price: $2,000

2021 Camry hybrid fuel cost: $12,000
2000 Camry fuel cost: $24,000

2021 Camry hybrid repairs: Probably $1,000
2000 Camry repairs: Probably $1,000 per year, so $10,000 total

2021 Camry hybrid value after 10 years: $7,000
2000 Camry value after 10 years: $1,000

2021 Camry hybrid cost after 10 years: $36,000
2000 Camry cost after 10 years: $35,000

So you save $100 a year by driving an old beater compared to buying a brand new car.

Fuzzy. Math.

2021 Camry Hybrid MPG. 51/53
2000 Camry MPG. 20/28.

I'll grant a approx double MPG improvement. HOWEVER.

Where's your taxes? 10x as much for the newer car. The TAXES alone on the newer car are more than the older one. A 1 time hit that more than pays for the older one.

Where's your registration fees? I bet way more every year in the newer car. Probably $1000 more over the decade.

Where is your auto insurance? I bet it's probably $1000 more per year for the new car, or $10,000 more over the decade. Also, you need full coverage if you have a note on the car, but not on the older one if you paid cash.

Where's the interest and loan? Typically a 5%-10% loan on a $30,000 car. That turns it into a $45,000 car.

So let's amend the balance sheet, shall we, to reflect a more accurate reality.

2021 Camry additional expenditures
($15,000 loan amount)
($5000-$10,000 extra insurance premiums, about $500-$1000 more per year)
($3000 extra taxes)
($100 per year or $1000 extra registration over 10 years)

So now that $30,000 Camry, in 10 years is a $30,000 + $15,000 (loan), $3000 (taxes), $5-10k (insurance), $1000 (registration x 10 years) = nearly $55,000 to $60,000 car. Which has, after 10 years, depreciated to about $10,000 in value. This is why buying new cars is financially foolish.
Add the fuel, $12k. And outside warranty repairs, let's just add $1000. You're at $73k.


2000 Camry
$3000 initial purchase.
Let's double that for old vehicle extra maintenance, $3k. Now we are at $6k.
Taxes, $300, registration, trivial, insurance, basic and trivial. Call it $500 annually. $5k on a decade.
Let's add fuel, $24k. Now we're at $35k.
Heck, another big repair, $10k. Now we are at $45k.

Still ahead of the game by $27k.
What, another $5k repair. Geez.
Still ahead by $22k.

Car breaks down and is unrepairable.
Go buy another $3000, 20 year old car, and start over.

Still up by $19,000. Nineteen thousand dollars in the black.

 

[Oillover]

https://tenor.com/view/me-watching-...el-jackson-gif-eating-dont-worry-gif-18916761

 

[Nick1994]

Fuzzy. Math.

2021 Camry Hybrid MPG. 51/53
2000 Camry MPG. 20/28.

I'll grant a approx double MPG improvement. HOWEVER.

Where's your taxes? 10x as much for the newer car. The TAXES alone on the newer car are more than the older one. A 1 time hit that more than pays for the older one.

Where's your registration fees? I bet way more every year in the newer car. Probably $1000 more over the decade.

Where is your auto insurance? I bet it's probably $1000 more per year for the new car, or $10,000 more over the decade. Also, you need full coverage if you have a note on the car, but not on the older one if you paid cash.

Where's the interest and loan? Typically a 5%-10% loan on a $30,000 car. That turns it into a $45,000 car.

So let's amend the balance sheet, shall we, to reflect a more accurate reality.

2021 Camry additional expenditures
($15,000 loan amount)
($5000-$10,000 extra insurance premiums, about $500-$1000 more per year)
($3000 extra taxes)
($100 per year or $1000 extra registration over 10 years)

So now that $30,000 Camry, in 10 years is a $30,000 + $15,000 (loan), $3000 (taxes), $5-10k (insurance), $1000 (registration x 10 years) = nearly $55,000 to $60,000 car. Which has, after 10 years, depreciated to about $10,000 in value. This is why buying new cars is financially foolish.
Add the fuel, $12k. And outside warranty repairs, let's just add $1000. You're at $73k.


2000 Camry
$3000 initial purchase.
Let's double that for old vehicle extra maintenance, $3k. Now we are at $6k.
Taxes, $300, registration, trivial, insurance, basic and trivial. Call it $500 annually. $5k on a decade.
Let's add fuel, $24k. Now we're at $35k.
Heck, another big repair, $10k. Now we are at $45k.

Still ahead of the game by $27k.
What, another $5k repair. Geez.
Still ahead by $22k.

Car breaks down and is unrepairable.
Go buy another $3000, 20 year old car, and start over.

Still up by $19,000. Nineteen thousand dollars in the black.

Did you just have a bankruptcy to get that interest rate? Toyota is currently offering 1.9% interest, which is about $1,328. A $25k car (I'm not including these crazy car prices right now) plus tax ($2,075), doc fee of $500 and maybe some tinted windows and it's still under $30k.

So that $19k premium you have? More like $4k.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

Did you just have a bankruptcy to get that interest rate? Toyota is currently offering 1.9% interest, which is about $1,328. A $25k car (I'm not including these crazy car prices right now) plus tax ($2,075), doc fee of $500 and maybe some tinted windows and it's still under $30k.

So that $19k premium you have? More like $4k.

I'm OBVIOUSLY talking about the average person. I didn't run your credit score. A 1.9% requires impeccable credit, and most don't have it. The typical person is going to get 5% or even 10%. What else can you nitpick, the better MPG on tire X vs. tire Y? Good grief. I'm OBVIOUSLY talking in average, round numbers. A new car is a MONEY PIT. There's no getting around it and no financial advisor will advise a new car under most circumstances.

This has gotten so far afield of stupid I'm not wasting another second on this absurd discussion.

 

[Skippy722]

All twelve wanted to know is if a hybrid made sense for his commute, not how to achieve the absolute lowest cost per mile. Not everyone is interested in buying, maintaining, and driving a 20 year old appliance on wheels.

 

[IveBeenRued]

All of you people recommending the mythical $2-3K V6 powered cars from 15-20 years ago aren’t taking into account safety. Safety standards have come a heck of a long way; in crash protection, crash prevention, and heck, even headlight technology.

I personally drive around 32K miles a year as well OP. I personally went with a brand new RAV4 Hybrid and it’s my first car with IIHS “Good” ratings across the board including “Good” rated headlights. Because of these lights, I will never be going down to non “Good” rated headlights in the future. When 50% of my commute is guaranteed at night, the safety factor is just invaluable.

 

[TeamZero]

4th car I looked at, a 4 cylinder Mirage with 118k miles, super clean. Probably get 30-35mph hwy. Only $1900.

That's pocket change, when comparing to the Prius mentioned above. Can probably get 20 more years of all hwy driving on this car.

https://reading.craigslist.org/ctd/d/burlington-2001-mitsubishi-mirage/7350861636.html

I'd pay 60k for my prius before I'd drive that for 5 years.......

 

[doublebase]

No offense, but I am routinely UNIMPRESSED by people who lean on credentials. I know more stupid mechanics, lawyers, technicians, Soldiers, etc. than smart ones. Credentials don't seem to mean as much as people think they do.

I've also driven plenty, and own or owned many vehicles into the 200,000+ mile territory and most of them had plenty of life left. I will say that the 1980s was an especially bad era for quality and anything pre-1990 is probably not going to be around much, especially since cash for clunkers junked a big portion of them. In spite of my examples above of my neighbors. But nearly anything cared for and serviced per the manual since 1990s, is on the roads today absent neglect and accidents.

Perhaps it's the definition of "little effort." By "little effort," I mean, not a major "pull the engine out and rebuild it" overhaul. Or drop the transmission and pull it out, and source a new one, and replace it.

Change the fluids and filters regularly, service the differentials, do the maintenance in the manual at the correct intervals, change the belts and plugs as needed, wash it as needed (more in the rust belt, with underside), wax it, and absent a lemon you're going to get 300k out of nearly anything built since 1990.

And I should probably tap out at this point. I've said my piece, and not here to get into any contest of wills. I've given prudent advice, and proven in 5 minutes that there's plenty of excellent 100-150,000 mile cars for a few thousand bucks on the market. If one looks, they are out there, they aren't going to have the wheels fall off, etc. I own 10 vehicles and they average about 20 years old, and I'd take any of them across country today without a single concern. I am confident they'd make the 6000 mile round trip nary a issue.

I was just thinking...would you be interested in my son‘s 2001 Jeep Liberty? It has only 180,000 miles and I’d be willing to let it go bellow your market outlook price...let’s say an even $2,000? It’s in very good condition and will easily last another 10-15 years with a little effort.

The engine and transmission are in great shape! All it needs is...tires, brakes, exhaust, front fenders, rockers, the entire ac system (condenser, compressor,). it does need a power steering pump (it’s leaking, very common for those models, but don’t take my word for that). It also needs rear window shocks, but if you’re willing to let the rear window hit you in the head every single time you open it? It’s not an issue. It needs (also) a rear upper control arm (bushings are wiped out but no biggie). The evap system does have some leaks but it doesn’t effect driveability one bit (in fact you’ll still be able to get a sticker because it’s so old). The front head lights need to be replaced or polished (again..I’ve done it three times now). Oh, there was an issue with the parking lights - it did fail for a sticker - but I re-wired the whole thing. Now it’s mint!! I’ve replaced 80% of the front suspension, except for the struts and springs...not sure how long those will last (but that’s why I priced it bellow your $3,000 dollar threshold). But I’ve more than made up for THAT by replacing every single switch, knob and sensor in the entire vehicle (most more than once). So, like I was saying...the thing will easily go another 15 years with little effort.

And I don’t trust “credentials” either. The other day I was at the “doctors” and I was listening to his diagnosis and you know what? I think I can diagnose myself better with a little help from forums and a keto diet.

Edit — Alright, I’m being a jerk and I’m sorry. Different strokes for different folks. I’m a high mileage fan...a vehicle longevity fan, myself. I just have a much different view about the effort and work it takes to get there.

 

[PimTac]

I was just thinking...would you be interested in my son‘s 2001 Jeep Liberty? It has only 180,000 miles and I’d be willing to let it go bellow your market outlook price...let’s say an even $2,000? It’s in very good condition and will easily last another 10-15 years with a little effort.

The engine and transmission are in great shape! All it needs is...tires, brakes, exhaust, front fenders, rockers, the entire ac system (condenser, compressor,). it does need a power steering pump (it’s leaking, very common for those models, but don’t take my word for that). It also needs rear window shocks, but if you’re willing to let the rear window hit you in the head every single time you open it? It’s not an issue. It needs (also) a rear upper control arm (bushings are wiped out but no biggie). The evap system does have some leaks but it doesn’t effect driveability one bit (in fact you’ll still be able to get a sticker because it’s so old). The front head lights need to be replaced or polished (again..I’ve done it three times now). Oh, there was an issue with the parking lights - it did fail for a sticker - but I re-wired the whole thing. Now it’s mint!! I’ve replaced 80% of the front suspension, except for the struts and springs...not sure how long those will last (but that’s why I priced it bellow your $3,000 dollar threshold). But I’ve more than made up for THAT by replacing every single switch, knob and sensor in the entire vehicle (most more than once). So, like I was saying...the thing will easily go another 15 years with little effort.

And I don’t trust “credentials” either. The other day I was at the “doctors” and I was listening to his diagnosis and you know what? I think I can diagnose myself better with a little help from forums and a keto diet.

That sounds like a winner compared to a brand new money pit.

 

[doublebase]

That sounds like a winner compared to a brand new money pit.

For you I’ll let it go for $1,500...and I’ll throw in a tail light warranty (as soon as I can’t see the tail lights as you drive away, it’s out of warranty).

 

[TeamZero]

I showed the wife the add for the mitsu and told her we should dump the prius and get that or something similar......save a ton of $$...she said I could drive it ....right up my *#@ guess the Prius is staying

 

[earthbound]

I showed the wife the add for the mitsu and told her we should dump the prius and get that or something similar......save a ton of $$...she said I could drive it ....right up my *#@ guess the Prius is staying

hey man some people are frugal, and then there are some people who are FRUGAL....you know the one square tp tear off people..

 

[TeamZero]

hey man some people are frugal, and then there are some people who are FRUGAL....you know the one square tp tear off people..

 

[CharlesInCharge]

I'd pay 60k for my prius before I'd drive that for 5 years.......

And I wouldn't drive a Prius if you paid me. lol.

I've taken enough backhanded insults and mockery on this discussion where I was trying to be helpful to the OP. I didn't join to be ridiculed. I thought this was a place to get intelligent viewpoints from many angles. Not some hen knitting needle club where people are afraid to get grease on their hands, called "we're scared of driving anything that's not brand new with a warranty." Oh no, I might have to buy a toolset and change a belt or some oil once in a while. Good grief.

 

[PimTac]

 

[Job]

The Prius hybrids would fit well with this use. They even make an awd which does not have a lithium ion battery. They aren’t that small, looks are deceiving. I just saw a new Venza and a Prius Prime parked side by side in a parking garage. The front and rear seem to about line up for length. The Venza is taller which makes it look a lot bigger. I would say the Prius is safer as it’s lower and probably more stable in a maneuver. This offends I am sure but huge vehicles are not automatically safer. They can flip over much easier, and don’t have the maneuverability. If you can plug in at work a Prime would be even better.