Is a hybrid right for my commute?

[CharlesInCharge]

Nobody has mentioned parts. How are you supposed to find some parts for a 2001 Mitsubishi now, let alone ten years from now?

The safety factor is another big issue as well, which someone already mentioned.

There's this thing called the internet, which you probably heard of. You can visit "virtual stores" on their "websites" and buy new parts at places like Rock Auto, Amazon, Autozone, Pepboys, Advanced Auto, Walmart, Napa, OReilly, and many others. You buy parts with your "credit card." Then they are mailed right to you! I know, it's crazy, right?!

Or you can travel to your local scrap yard where all manner of cars are stored, and pull parts. I just did this 2 days ago, and got all sorts of parts needed for 3 of my vehicles.

In fact, older cars are a lot LESS difficult to find parts for and generally much less expensive to fix. This is reflected in insurance premiums, where new cars are often 3x more expensive to insure. Go try to find a computer chip for your new hybrid right now. I dare ya. Not going to happen and if so it's a premium price. And you won't find any, not even in scrap yards (due to price and scarcity). I've read articles where it's taking weeks or MONTHS to source parts for new cars/repairs. I drive mostly older vehicles. I can get nearly anything fixed and roadworthy same day or 72 hours max, including probably full engine or transmission or rebuilt in a week tops.

But sssshhhh.... Don't tell too many people of these secrets.

 

[gathermewool]

I agree with everything Charlesincharge has posted, in principle and his condescending attitude not withstanding, but I’ve been too afraid to admit it…


I miss the old “hiding under a chair“ emoji!

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

There's this thing called the internet, which you probably heard of. You can visit "virtual stores" on their "websites" and buy new parts at places like Rock Auto, Amazon, Autozone, Pepboys, Advanced Auto, Walmart, Napa, OReilly, and many others. You buy parts with your "credit card." Then they are mailed right to you! I know, it's crazy, right?!

Or you can travel to your local scrap yard where all manner of cars are stored, and pull parts. I just did this 2 days ago, and got all sorts of parts needed for 3 of my vehicles.

In fact, older cars are a lot LESS difficult to find parts for and generally much less expensive to fix. This is reflected in insurance premiums, where new cars are often 3x more expensive to insure. Go try to find a computer chip for your new hybrid right now. I dare ya. Not going to happen and if so it's a premium price. And you won't find any, not even in scrap yards (due to price and scarcity). I've read articles where it's taking weeks or MONTHS to source parts for new cars/repairs. I drive mostly older vehicles. I can get nearly anything fixed and roadworthy same day or 72 hours max, including probably full engine or transmission or rebuilt in a week tops.

But sssshhhh.... Don't tell too many people of these secrets.

Condescension is not required.

You are absolutely dreaming if you think someone is going to be scrounging wrecking yards or waiting a few days for parts to arrive from an online order for their vehicle that they reliably need to get to work.

"oh, hi boss... Hey listen, I know I took the rest of my vacation time just last month but I'm not going to be there the next three or four days because I need to wait for my ball joints to arrive..."

Good luck with that

 

[supton]

Has scrap metal dropped in price? I thought cars sat in yards only for a short while, before being crushed and turned in razor blades.

 

[CKN]

Condescension is not required.

You are absolutely dreaming if you think someone is going to be scrounging wrecking yards or waiting a few days for parts to arrive from an online order for their vehicle that they reliably need to get to work.

"oh, hi boss... Hey listen, I know I took the rest of my vacation time just last month but I'm not going to be there the next three or four days because I need to wait for my ball joints to arrive..."

Good luck with that

I'm retired and have no desire to crawl around a junk yard.......I just don't keep cars long enough for them to break. I know this is the "anti-BITOG" thing though.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

Condescension is not required.

You are absolutely dreaming if you think someone is going to be scrounging wrecking yards or waiting a few days for parts to arrive from an online order for their vehicle that they reliably need to get to work.

"oh, hi boss... Hey listen, I know I took the rest of my vacation time just last month but I'm not going to be there the next three or four days because I need to wait for my ball joints to arrive..."

Good luck with that

I've not been condescending. I've merely used sarcasm to respond to statements that one cannot source parts for older cars. In fact, it's easier, faster, and generally cheaper.

Obfuscating replies ignore the WELL MAINTAINED comments I've repeatedly emphasized. A well maintained car rarely or almost never just dies without any warning. Mechanical car troubles show signs - changes in driving, noises, leaks, etc. weeks, months, or sometimes years before failure.
Do you know what does often fail without warning leaving one stranded? Electronics. Batteries. Computers. Guess what has more electronics to fail and leave one stranded. NEWER cars.

Also, did you bother looking at the millions of recalls I posted above. Wheels falling off your new truck is probably going to strand you...

 

[CharlesInCharge]

I'm retired and have no desire to crawl around a junk yard.......I just don't keep cars long enough for them to break. I know this is the "anti-BITOG" thing though.

And this is relevant how? The OP works and drives long distances, and seemingly on some economic budget to maintain. A retired guy's situation is far afield.

"Crawling." Exaggeration much? I spent 1 hour and $1 admission to a junk yard a few days ago. I took a drill, screwdriver, and some bits. Got an armful of small useful parts for several cars (small trim pieces mainly, minor stuff, extra gas caps, etc.) for probably 10 cents on the dollar retail. Effort level was 1 out of 10. No crawling involved. I opened a few doors and hoods.

This is largely an economics thread. As I've stated, new cars are not good investments, nor good economics. Ask any prudent financial advisor and the advice you get is consistent with mine. Buy a well maintained used car for cash and keep it maintained. You can get probably 4 decades of service out of it.

 

[PimTac]

Also, did you bother looking at the millions of recalls I posted above.

Millions? Come on now.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

Millions? Come on now.

Are you challenging that there has been millions of vehicle recalls? Heck, last year in 2020 Toyota recalled 2.9 million vehicles in a single airbag recall. There's probably tens upon tens of millions of vehicles recalled since just 2010. I almost wonder if it's by design to get folks to return their cars to the dealer for other services - almost like a business loss leader.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

So now the argument is new vehicle recalls and that electronics can fail. Yet even with all those electronics, new vehicles across just about every brand are MUCH more reliable than old ones, which has been proven over and over again. Not just new vs old, but even comparing new vs what was new 15 years ago. Not to mention if something does happen to fail under warranty you would usually get a loaner and have roadside assistance.

If the goal is saving as much money as possible and driving a less safe penalty box, an old car might make sense. For most people who need to reliably get to work and like things like power windows, or working air conditioning, or a vehicle that won't leave oil spots everywhere they park, they simply don't want to deal with that. Not to mention a lot of people don't have the tools/knowledge/space to wrench themselves, and even if they can, they're burning up precious free time to do so.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

So now the argument is new vehicle recalls and that electronics can fail. Yet even with all those electronics, new vehicles across just about every brand are MUCH more reliable than old ones, which has been proven over and over again. Not just new vs old, but even comparing new vs what was new 15 years ago. Not to mention if something does happen to fail under warranty you would usually get a loaner and have roadside assistance.

If the goal is saving as much money as possible and driving a less safe penalty box, an old car might make sense. For most people who need to reliably get to work and like things like power windows, or working air conditioning, or a vehicle that won't leave oil spots everywhere they park, they simply don't want to deal with that. Not to mention a lot of people don't have the tools/knowledge/space to wrench themselves, and even if they can, they're burning up precious free time to do so.

And yet, mathematically you are again incorrect.

Average age of cars on the road is 12 years. To reach 12 year average, cars from new (0 years) to 24 years old would be required. Maybe even older. The mean or bell curve of age would be about 6 to 16 years old. So MOST PEOPLE are driving cars closer to what I am suggesting, than what you suggest. MOST PEOPLE cannot afford a new car.

Again, go speak to 100 financial advisors or do a little research. I bet overwhelmingly "new cars" are listed as bad financial decisions.

 

[supton]

Again, go speak to 100 financial advisors or do a little research. I bet overwhelmingly "new cars" are listed as bad financial decisions.

How many of them would recommend buying a twenty year old car?

 

[CharlesInCharge]

How many of them would recommend buying a twenty year old car?

Most, overwhelmingly, would recommend buying a well maintained low miles (ideally highway miles) vehicle for your needs in your CASH pricerange. Years of age, probably between 5 and 25 depending on make, model, reputation, availability, price, and budget. Your fixation on "20 years" is bewildering. It's a ballpark, generic statement. You've entirely missed the point. Used, reliable, well maintained. Could be 5, could be 25 years old.

 

[supton]

Your fixation on "20 years" is bewildering. It's a ballpark, generic statement. You've entirely missed the point. Used, reliable, well maintained. Could be 5, could be 25 years old.

Ah. You had kept stating 20 and stating that these 20 year old cars had huge amounts of life left.

Don’t forget, this is a site that will argue over minutiae about motor oil, of all things.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

Ah. You had kept stating 20 and stating that these 20 year old cars had huge amounts of life left.

Don’t forget, this is a site that will argue over minutiae about motor oil, of all things.

Not really. I stated many generic terms regarding AGE, but focused on price/condition.

I wrote.
"Get a $2000 commuter car.... and
An inexpensive V6 car from about 20 years ago ... and
Plenty of very reliable $2500- $3600 cars out there, about 10-20 years old, 100-150k miles,..."

Fixating on "20 years" entirely misses the thrust of the discussion, doesn't it?

 

[supton]

Not really. I stated many generic terms regarding AGE, but focused on price/condition.

I wrote.
"Get a $2000 commuter car.... and
An inexpensive V6 car from about 20 years ago ... and
Plenty of very reliable $2500- $3600 cars out there, about 10-20 years old, 100-150k miles,..."

Fixating on "20 years" entirely misses the thrust of the discussion, doesn't it?

Fair enough; I apologize.

I still think you are wrong. 10 year old cars are getting problematic. I needed two in order to be sure one was usable, now with three I can rattle off all that each of them need for work.

 

[doublebase]

So now the argument is new vehicle recalls and that electronics can fail. Yet even with all those electronics, new vehicles across just about every brand are MUCH more reliable than old ones, which has been proven over and over again. Not just new vs old, but even comparing new vs what was new 15 years ago. Not to mention if something does happen to fail under warranty you would usually get a loaner and have roadside assistance.

If the goal is saving as much money as possible and driving a less safe penalty box, an old car might make sense. For most people who need to reliably get to work and like things like power windows, or working air conditioning, or a vehicle that won't leave oil spots everywhere they park, they simply don't want to deal with that. Not to mention a lot of people don't have the tools/knowledge/space to wrench themselves, and even if they can, they're burning up precious free time to do so.

You bring up a good point...reliably getting to work every day. Most people can’t have their car down for repairs, it’s a problem. You can’t tell your boss that you can’t come in today because you have no car. It’s a HUGE inconvenience and potential career hazard.

Some shops have loaners they can lend out, some don’t. It really depends on the area and quite honestly, what you’ll be paying for labor. When your car is old these are things you deal with monthly...the unexpected check engine light (that turns into a $300 repair), the wheel bearing, the axles, the leaking transmission pan, the alternator that leaves you stranded, the starter, the rejected inspection sticker with the guy telling you the repair will be $2,500 repair. The stuck caliper causing the car to pull to the right, on the highway with your family in the car...smoking, dangerous, scary situation. And it shouldn’t have happened because you changed your pads, rotors and calipers two months ago with some aftermarket brand on Rockauto. Well whoops!! Garbage parts.

You absolutely can take a car to 300,000 miles, but it’ll cost you in time, money and safety. It’ll very much get to a point where keeping it is not practical for a yearly 30,000 mile commute. And if you buy that car used with 200,000 miles on it? You’re already at the end of its life expectancy.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

And yet, mathematically you are again incorrect.

Average age of cars on the road is 12 years. To reach 12 year average, cars from new (0 years) to 24 years old would be required. Maybe even older. The mean or bell curve of age would be about 6 to 16 years old. So MOST PEOPLE are driving cars closer to what I am suggesting, than what you suggest. MOST PEOPLE cannot afford a new car.

Again, go speak to 100 financial advisors or do a little research. I bet overwhelmingly "new cars" are listed as bad financial decisions.

You know what is a worse financial decision than buying a new car? Being fired because you can't reliably show up on time.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

Fair enough; I apologize.

I still think you are wrong. 10 year old cars are getting problematic. I needed two in order to be sure one was usable, now with three I can rattle off all that each of them need for work.

And, even with 3, say 10 year old, cars, you are into them for less than 1 new car, you lose less money than you do on 1 new car, and you have three vehicles for versatility and backup. The "two is one and one is none" concept. With one car, even a warranty repair might leave you car-less unless they provide a rental. With 3 cars, you can have 2 down for maintenance and still have a vehicle to drive.

And 3, $10,000 cars is less money in every respect than 1 $40,000 brand new car, even if you have higher maintenance costs.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

lol, the goalposts keep moving

First it was a $2000 car. Then it was an older, reliable car. Now, it's three of them!