Interesting unverified statistic- if you earn more than $30k USD annually

[ecotourist]

Our Finnish guests (2 different sets) commented that the standard of living in Canada seems very similar to Finland. Different incomes, different taxation, different state benefits, far different price of vehicles, and especially a different price for fuel but overall a similar standard of living. As far as I could tell, the people in Germany and the Netherlands seemed about as well off as Canadians too.

It would be no easier or harder to practice medicine in the US than in Canada. Probably no easier or harder to practice in the UK or Europe either. Every country will have similar requirements - similar educational requirements, similar training requirements, potentially very different exams, but having similar content and similar difficulty. A number of my classmates simply upped stakes and moved to the US, or to the UK when they completed their training. And US and UK medical grads moved here too - for romantic reasons often. The only way you could start practicing medicine the day after you arrive somewhere is if you've spent a couple of years completing the requirements before leaving home.

 

[GON]

There is no "University of Ohio".
There are both the Ohio State University in Columbus and Ohio University in Athens.

Noted, thank you.

 

[fdcg27]

Not going to challenge your post, but the desire to immigrate from Europe to the US is substantially higher than the desire to migrate from the US to Europe.

One can get ahead and be the master of their destiny much better in the US than in Europe.

A simple example, I can migrate from Germany to the US and open an independent auto repair shop the same day I arrive in the US. If I legally migrate from US to Germany, I can't even legally get a job washing windows on the day I arrive.

It's hard to find good numbers on this, but the best I could find show that around 50K EU citizens migrate to the US each year to the US each year with about 80K US citizens migrating to the EU.
It's pretty easy for an American to gain residence status in various EU countries and legacy citizenship is offered in some, not the case with the US. The cost of living is lower as well, especially WRT health care and coverage.

 

[GON]

It's hard to find good numbers on this, but the best I could find show that around 50K EU citizens migrate to the US each year to the US each year with about 80K US citizens migrating to the EU.
It's pretty easy for an American to gain residence status in various EU countries and legacy citizenship is offered in some, not the case with the US. The cost of living is lower as well, especially WRT health care and coverage.

What are the age demographics of the numbers you posted?

 

[fdcg27]

What are the age demographics of the numbers you posted?

No idea since I didn't look for or find that level of granularity.
Simple fact is that about 50% more Americans emigrate to Europe than Europeans emigrate to the US.
I should add that the numbers are pretty small, around 50K Europeans coming to the US and around 79K Americans going to Europe.

 

[IndyIan]

Not going to challenge your post, but the desire to immigrate from Europe to the US is substantially higher than the desire to migrate from the US to Europe.

One can get ahead and be the master of their destiny much better in the US than in Europe.

A simple example, I can migrate from Germany to the US and open an independent auto repair shop the same day I arrive in the US. If I legally migrate from US to Germany, I can't even legally get a job washing windows on the day I arrive.

Any sources for this? I kind of think you are right but it would be interesting to see the differences in immigration policies.
I think the situation in North America and Europe is quite a bit different, with land/housing being much cheaper here, and we still have room for both Canada and the US to double our populations.
Also the average european understands a bit of english and another language or 3, but less people in N.A. seem interested in learning another language.
Almost all the people I know that have come from europe have opened there own business here, so I think that is easier in N.A. But I think for those who just want a 9-5 professional job, they find europe is just fine. World class everything is a very short flight or train ride away, lots of holidays, relatively free college for your kids, it sounds pretty good to me.

 

[GON]

No idea since I didn't look for or find that level of granularity.
Simple fact is that about 50% more Americans emigrate to Europe than Europeans emigrate to the US.

The demographics are key.

If the US-EUR demographic is primarily 55 year of age and older, that would tell a story

If the EUR- US demographic is primarily 18-54 year of age, that would tell a story

I am currently working in SE Asia. Tons of expats moving from the US to SE Asia annually. Single digit percentage of 18-54 year of age US people moving to SE Asia. The vast majority of US to SE Asia are people moving to SE Asia to retire and consume, not to produce. I suspect the same is likely for US to EUR migration. One could even research the numbers you posted deeper, what percent if US to EUR are natives of EUR, made their "fortune" in the US, and are returning to retire and die in their homeland.

 

[walterjay]

We Americans have so much here that they are building storage units all over my county. They are popping up like mushrooms.

It would have been a good business to get into.

 

[fdcg27]

The demographics are key.

If the US-EUR demographic is primarily 55 year of age and older, that would tell a story

If the EUR- US demographic is primarily 18-54 year of age, that would tell a story

I am currently working in SE Asia. Tons of expats moving from the US to SE Asia annually. Single digit percentage of 18-54 year of age US people moving to SE Asia. The vast majority of US to SE Asia are people moving to SE Asia to retire and consume, not to produce. I suspect the same is likely for US to EUR migration. One could even research the numbers you posted deeper, what percent if US to EUR are natives of EUR, made their "fortune" in the US, and are returning to retire and die in their homeland.

Well, we are native to the US and have toyed with the idea of moving to the EU.
I can get legacy citizenship in either Greece or Italy or both and either passport would enable us to live anywhere in the EU.
People living in most of SE Asia would obviously be way ahead in the US.
That's why there are so many people coming here from there, legally or not.
Finally, 18-54 yo is a pretty wide range so may not tell us anything.

 

[tbm5690]

I believe it. I’ve traveled the world and seen what real poverty looks like. We have fat poor people in America. Our idea of soul crushing poverty is many people’s idea of normal.

This. People here, in general, that complain how hard it is to get by need to remember that a faucet dispensing clean water in their home is a luxury for a large portion of the world.

 

[GON]

Any sources for this? I kind of think you are right but it would be interesting to see the differences in immigration policies.
I think the situation in North America and Europe is quite a bit different, with land/housing being much cheaper here, and we still have room for both Canada and the US to double our populations.
Also the average european understands a bit of english and another language or 3, but less people in N.A. seem interested in learning another language.
Almost all the people I know that have come from europe have opened there own business here, so I think that is easier in N.A. But I think for those who just want a 9-5 professional job, they find europe is just fine. World class everything is a very short flight or train ride away, lots of holidays, relatively free college for your kids, it sounds pretty good to me.

I am going to go a step further, and give a simple plan for a German auto technician opening an independent German repair shop the day he arrives in the U.S. All legal except the terms of entering the US would be subject to interpretation (can a German citizen on a visitor visa to the US own 100 percent of shares in a corporation, and essentially have no employees).

Wilhelm Shaffer, a 30 year old Mercedes factory trained mechanic in Germany, comes to the US. The morning Wilhelm arrives, in a red state he:

• Opens a corporation online
• Leases a shattered auto repair facility with tools
• Gets a business license online
• Gets a resale tax number online
• Gets liability insurance online
• Opens a business checking account online

At 3pm, Wilhelm buys a big banner from a same day sign shop, along with a sign called "Wilhelm German Auto Repair". Wilhelm hangs the sign, and at 4:30pm he is open for business. This is simplified, but almost no where else in the world can a 30 year old German auto technician arrive in the US at 6am, and by 4:30pm have a business up and running, and essentially legal in most aspects, and legal to the point no government agency is going to shut Wilhelm German Auto Repair down.

 

[ATex7239]

This. People here, in general, that complain how hard it is to get by need to remember that a faucet dispensing clean water in their home is a luxury for a large portion of the world.

Rain collection barrels for homes are very common in many parts of the world.

 

[Pablo]

Rain collection barrels for homes are very common in many parts of the world.

Most single fam homes on Hawaii Hilo side (Big island) have cisterns

 

[andrew_j]

That is yes and no.

The price of travel, goods, and education generally do not get reduced because on earns less.

• Out of state student tuition at University of Ohio is not reduced because on lives in Cambodia.
• A iPhone cost in Ghana is not substantially different than a Iphone cost in a western nation.
• A liter of fuel in China is not substantially less than a litre of fuel in Oklahoma.

Some things that are less:

• A round trip ticket from Thailand to the US is generally less than a round trip ticket from the US to Thailand
• A medical procedure in Kenya is much less than the same medical procedure in the US
• A name brand prescription drug made in the US costs much less in Mexico than the US

The first to consider of $30kUSD is your basics of where you live like food, shelter(housing) and utilities. In the USA, some other nations it gets eaten alive leaving very little for items you list. In some nations you can live well for well under $1k/month for all that so $30k turns into a lot of money free for other luxuries.

 

[BISCUT]

Not accurate. In US dollars, the income threshold that puts you in the top 1% worldwide is about $65,000.
In the USA, to be in the top 1%, your income needs to be $788,000 per year.

If we discount Africa with it's traditionally low income, then the number jumps to about $75,000 annual income.


The idea that the entire world is dirt poor is wildly in error. That's just not so. Much of the world has far more technology than the USA, much of the world is cleaner, has nicer cities, nicer ports, vibrant recreational activities and so on. The USA is tops in aviation.

It may have been accurate when stated. I believe it came from Jordan Peterson likely 10-12 years ago. I sure could be wrong.

 

[GON]

The first to consider of $30kUSD is your basics of where you live like food, shelter(housing) and utilities. In the USA, some other nations it gets eaten alive leaving very little for items you list. In some nations you can live well for well under $1k/month for all that so $30k turns into a lot of money free for other luxuries.

What other nations have you lived in and how long did you live in those nations that one lives well for under $1k USD per month, and have lots of money free for other luxuries?

 

[JWC86]

I’m not sure if it comes with getting older or what but I find myself being more aware of the luxuries we mostly take for granted more often than I used to.

Simple things like shelter, running water(hot running water even!), electricity, etc.

The fact that I can go out and buy a vehicle that was made in Japan with technologies that didn’t even exist 100 years ago is remarkable.

Even more remarkable is that most of the time this stuff works!

 

[SC Maintenance]

What other nations have you lived in and how long did you live in those nations that one lives well for under $1k USD per month, and have lots of money free for other luxuries?

$1000 (per person) a month might be doable in some Latin American countries still. I have not, but my wife has, albeit its been a while. It would be a very different lifestyle than USA at that money.

However American's can't just move there permanently. You usually need to make a pretty significant investment or deposit to get permanent resident status.

Still, this thread is quite mis-leading. For example a self paid health insurance plan plus deductible for a family of 4 could easily be $30K in USA. In countries like Canada or Germany, which I don't think anyone could call bad, that would not be something you needed to pay for directly.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I am going to go a step further, and give a simple plan for a German auto technician opening an independent German repair shop the day he arrives in the U.S. All legal except the terms of entering the US would be subject to interpretation (can a German citizen on a visitor visa to the US own 100 percent of shares in a corporation, and essentially have no employees).

Wilhelm Shaffer, a 30 year old Mercedes factory trained mechanic in Germany, comes to the US. The morning Wilhelm arrives, in a red state he:

• Opens a corporation online
• Leases a shattered auto repair facility with tools
• Gets a business license online
• Gets a resale tax number online
• Gets liability insurance online
• Opens a business checking account online

At 3pm, Wilhelm buys a big banner from a same day sign shop, along with a sign called "Wilhelm German Auto Repair". Wilhelm hangs the sign, and at 4:30pm he is open for business. This is simplified, but almost no where else in the world can a 30 year old German auto technician arrive in the US at 6am, and by 4:30pm have a business up and running, and essentially legal in most aspects, and legal to the point no government agency is going to shut Wilhelm German Auto Repair down.

He's not doing anything without an ITIN and a residential address. I've had a few Europeans tell me there's more red tape in the US than Germany.

 

[CKN]

He's not doing anything without an ITIN and a residential address. I've had a few Europeans tell me there's more red tape in the US than Germany.

I agree. Gon's scenario is way over simplified. He is going to need to pay taxes. And an Insurance Company issuing a policy online for a vehicle repair business with any scrutiny or questions? File that under IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.