FIRE Movement

[Wolf359]

What a stupid topic.

FIRE is about folks getting rich selling eBooks to people wanting to “fire”.

If you want to scrounge and save go ahead but the current investment environment at best will punish you.

I have always saved much of my income but due to failures of mandatory investments outside my purview it will be a while before I can retire comfortably as my investment growth rate tracks about 4% interest in stocks. I had CDs that did better than that up through 3 years ago.

If I didn’t care I could retire tomorrow but I rather have a decent safety net than a live in Paraguay eating rice and beans retirement.

Speak just for yourself. You basically missed out on one of the great decades for investing after the drops from 2008. In the last 10 years, there were only 3 bad years for the S&P 500, 2018 and single digit returns in 2011 and 2015, you had over 30% in 2013 and 2019 and two other years with over 18% returns, and three other years with about 12%+ in returns. What exactly did you invest in?

Basically you chose poorly.

 

[Rmay635703]

Speak just for yourself. You basically missed out on one of the great decades for investing after the drops from 2008. In the last 10 years, there were only 3 bad years for the S&P 500, 2018 and single digit returns in 2011 and 2015, you had over 30% in 2013 and 2019 and two other years with over 18% returns, and three other years with about 12%+ in returns. What exactly did you invest in?

Basically you chose poorly.

Im required to carry a specific investment vehicle because of where I work, there is no choice involved. (Besides how much I contribute)

The funds I myself control did OK.

 

[Ws6]

As a millennial I hear from time to time interest from my peers in the "retire early" mentality. "Early" could mean age 35 or age 55, so I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of those wanting to hang the hat before age 40. I think it's great that they have a goal and save aggressively, especially since most of my generation goes the opposite way and is straddled with debt for years on end. How much is saved is dependent on the person and their income, expenses, etc. but I have always had 3 general objections to this "movement":

1. Cost of health care at the end of life: are these people really planning adequately for a longer lifespan and the cost of health care when they are 85, 90, and beyond? I plan to pay for insurance and factor that into my budget. It's really not that bad all, tbh, once you hit 65.

2. Leaving a legacy for your family: this one is personal, but to me retiring early and having my money last me through the end of my life is not success but failure...I want to help my children, grand children, and ideally great grand children with buying homes, going to school, and be able to leave an inheritance when I die. IMO, it's selfish just to think about you and your life sitting on a beach rotting away for your last 30 years. I don't plan to leave anything. I will have no heirs and no spouse, so...? I'll probably donate it/gift it to some young person who isn't screwing off in life.

3. The value of work: another personal one, but I believe that honest work is good, not bad. I don't live to work, and you can definitely be on the wrong end of this spectrum, but I feel that so often simply having to work is seen as a negative thing, when it should be viewed from a perspective of thanksgiving for the ability to provide and earn a living. Cutting this short after only 10 years at it would be a moral quandary for me. Honest work IS good. I don't really find anything but a paycheck and some PTSD and other things in my job, though. I won't miss it in the slightest.

What are your thoughts? Am I grossly underestimating the amount of cash these people have saved up when they exit the workforce 15 years after college?

Technically, I am a millennial. I am not saving, but rather, am buying aggressively. So far I am VERY pleased with this strategy as the estate I own is worth more over what I paid/financed vs. what I could have saved. Dollars ahead! Anyway, other answers in red.

People who "retire" early are either born rich, inherit, or create passive income. Rent houses, stock investments, that sort of thing. By and large, anyway.

 

[Dave Hess]

Technically, I am a millennial. I am not saving, but rather, am buying aggressively. So far I am VERY pleased with this strategy as the estate I own is worth more over what I paid/financed vs. what I could have saved. Dollars ahead! Anyway, other answers in red.

People who "retire" early are either born rich, inherit, or create passive income. Rent houses, stock investments, that sort of thing. By and large, anyway.

I know a few folks in their 50’s that are multi millionaires (1 guy has a legitimate $10M net worth) and can retire today that built their wealth themselves.

It takes discipline to invest and contribute regularly to an IRA , 401K and brokerage account.

The key is not to spend every penny you make trying to satisfy a big ego....

.

 

[Ws6]

I know a few folks in their 50’s that are millionaires and can retire today that built their wealth themselves.



It takes discipline to invest and contribute regularly to an IRA , 401K and brokerage account.



The key is not to spend every penny you make trying to satisfy a big ego....

.

Reply

I could die tonight. Im having a balanced approach. I have friends who paid over half a mil in tax last year. And im happier.

Responding to your update. I could care less about my "ego". I buy stuff that makes me happy, because again, I could die any time. Never know.

 

[02SE]

Technically, I am a millennial. I am not saving, but rather, am buying aggressively. So far I am VERY pleased with this strategy as the estate I own is worth more over what I paid/financed vs. what I could have saved. Dollars ahead! Anyway, other answers in red.

People who "retire" early are either born rich, inherit, or create passive income. Rent houses, stock investments, that sort of thing. By and large, anyway.

Or they take some big risks, start their own business, work harder than any 'Boss' could ever legally make them work, have some success, sell the business, and retire early.

 

[Ws6]

Or they take some big risks, start their own business, work harder than any 'Boss' could ever legally make them work, have some success, sell the business, and retire early.

That is true. It is also EXTREMELY RARE. I have one friend who did it. He is still not retired, but rather, in his 60's. I have no clue what his enterprises earn him, but he filed 500K+ in taxes the other year, and he has told me he literally could not spend all of his money if he tried. He's still not happy though. He can't "turn it off". He want from nothing to being a multimillionaire and dominating an entire industry in his region by himself/his own hard work, and now he is having serious trouble "doing just for him." He buys girls new F Pace's, and yet he balks at buying himself a $2000 rifle scope. Seriously struggles with it. I don't want to be like that.

 

[doitmyself]

I could die tonight. Im having a balanced approach. I have friends who paid over half a mil in tax last year. And im happier.

Responding to your update. I could care less about my "ego". I buy stuff that makes me happy, because again, I could die any time. Never know.

Yes. As a teen, I pursued a "road less traveled" regarding my career and life path. Thank goodness I had the resolve to not listen to my father on this matter. I vowed not to let the acquisition of wealth consume my life. I followed a passion that provides riches much greater than money. At age 65, I still wake up most mornings content about the day ahead of me. I'm well enough off financially too. I have very few regrets.

 

[Ws6]

Yes. As a teen, I pursued a "road less traveled" regarding my career and life path. Thank goodness I had the resolve to not listen to my father on this matter. I vowed not to let the acquisition of wealth consume my life. I followed a passion that provides riches much greater than money. At age 65, I still wake up most mornings content about the day ahead of me. I'm well enough off financially too. I have very few regrets.

I'm not happy with my job, but I also only world less than half the week and am able to pursue rewarding things that I find enjoyable and meaningful in my off-time. It's a fair trade.

 

[Dave Hess]

I have never believed that I am obliged to leave anything to anyone upon my death, especially my immediate family. I want them to learn to make their own way the same way I did. I bought all of my cars, paid my way through college......the whole shebang. I concede this is more difficult for today's young generation. I.E., I worked one year post high school (1974) in a steel mill for big$$ = 100% college tuition.

Having said that, we have helped our children and grand children in very small ways while we are still living and can enjoy the results. For instance, our grand daughter really enjoyed and excelled playing violin - we helped pay for lessons and a violin upgrade. We have always donated our time and other resources to help others over the decades too (Not Ebeneezer Scrooge ).

Selfish to enjoy spending my hard earned money during retirement? Ha!

Yep. Children and grandchildren thinking you owe them an inheritance is a big mistake on their part.

Unfortunately some kids today don’t know what hard work is (working in a steel mill, unloading supermarket trucks in the rain at 4AM).... they just want the latest and greatest gadgets and be a star on social media.

If they are away from cellphone for more than an hour it causes great mental anguish.



O2SE,
FIRE is still possible today but it’s harder due to all the city, county , state / federal regulations and red tape put in place to make starting a new business very difficult.

.

 

[02SE]

That is true. It is also EXTREMELY RARE. I have one friend who did it. He is still not retired, but rather, in his 60's. I have no clue what his enterprises earn him, but he filed 500K+ in taxes the other year, and he has told me he literally could not spend all of his money if he tried. He's still not happy though. He can't "turn it off". He want from nothing to being a multimillionaire and dominating an entire industry in his region by himself/his own hard work, and now he is having serious trouble "doing just for him." He buys girls new F Pace's, and yet he balks at buying himself a $2000 rifle scope. Seriously struggles with it. I don't want to be like that.

You'll notice I never said it was easy. If it were easy, everyone would do it. In fact in my experience, you'll never work harder.

However, the opportunity is there, even in a business unfriendly atmosphere. But there are no guarantees.

 

[dnewton3]

I just retired early. I have the money, and my wife still works, so she's carrying me on her insurance.

I didn't plan to leave the workforce this early, but I was unwilling to return to work (office) when they demanded it in July this year. I didn't see the logic of me having driving an hour each way through Interstate expansion in my area, only then to sit in a smelly, poorly ventilated, old office . My highly successful projects in Houston and Syracuse were surviving just fine with me managing them from hundreds of miles away (home office) for the previous 15 months just fine; my work group had outperformed our 2020 goal and was on pace to exceed the 2021 goal as well - and I was a top performer in our group.

I must confess, after the equivilant of 48 years of working (inclusive of all the OT I've worked for 26 years), my tolerance for bovine manure is very low; the combination of young employee ignorance along with corporate arrogance doesn't fit into my ol' skool "merit and ability" view of life. My direct superiors (my boss and his boss) thought I was joking on Tuesday when I said that returning to work was "non-negotiable" for me, until I walked in on Friday and turned in all my stuff.

Having the luxury of "forget you" money does give one a much snappier outlook in life. I'm enjoying my early unplanned retirement!

 

[Dave Hess]

Responding to your update. I could care less about my "ego". I buy stuff that makes me happy, because again, I could die any time. Never know.

Ws6,

That wasn’t directed at you, I had a feeling you wouldn’t understand I meant bozo people trying to have a phony ‘fake it till you make it’ lifestyle that I see lots of people have.

The key is not to spend every penny you make trying to satisfy a big ego is meant at the social media crowd that have such a wonderful life and get into big debt posting photos of things they can’t afford.

I have a nephew obsessed with the fake it till you make it persona.

 

[Ws6]

Ws6,

That wasn’t directed at you, I had a feeling you wouldn’t understand I meant bozo people trying to have a phony ‘fake it till you make it’ lifestyle that I see lots of people have.

The key is not to spend every penny you make trying to satisfy a big ego is meant at the social media crowd that have such a wonderful life and get into big debt posting photos of things they can’t afford.

I have a nephew obsessed with the fake it till you make it persona.

I understand what you mean, but context is difficult online sometimes. Yes, I know people who have bills for things they don't want to impress people they don't like.

 

[Astro14]

Yes. As a teen, I pursued a "road less traveled" regarding my career and life path. Thank goodness I had the resolve to not listen to my father on this matter. I vowed not to let the acquisition of wealth consume my life. I followed a passion that provides riches much greater than money. At age 65, I still wake up most mornings content about the day ahead of me. I'm well enough off financially too. I have very few regrets.

You presume that people who have money pursued only money. A false assumption.

Many people pursue their passion and end up well compensated for doing so.

If they’re smart enough to save and invest along the way, then they will have both the happiness that a satisfying career brings and the wealth that their investment produced.

Those folks exist and they are actually happy….as well as financially secure.

Make no mistake, financial security brings a level of happiness along with it.

Consider the person who loves their job, and also has financial security. My AME is an example. As he nears 70, he works about thirty hours a week, at a job he enjoys (hand surgeon) but “doesn’t work too hard” - his words. He crossed the boundary where his investments exceed his income years ago.

So he spends his time doing something that he really enjoys, secure in knowing that he doesn’t have to work if he doesn’t want to.

His whole life was spent doing something he enjoyed. He didn’t chase money, or wealth, but in the end, he has wealth, satisfaction and a lifetime of doing what he enjoyed.

That is a life well-lived.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes. As a teen, I pursued a "road less traveled" regarding my career and life path. Thank goodness I had the resolve to not listen to my father on this matter. I vowed not to let the acquisition of wealth consume my life. I followed a passion that provides riches much greater than money. At age 65, I still wake up most mornings content about the day ahead of me. I'm well enough off financially too. I have very few regrets.

As @Astro14 pointed out, wealth and happiness do not have to be mutually exclusive. I was lucky enough to be in Silicon Valley when things took off due to the PC and Internet explosion. Plus the promise of free or low cost CA education. I was homeless and a broken man at the age of 25. I got my 1st degree at the age of 40. Now I have 3. Today, I am committed to give away, let's just say a lot of money, to kids for school (especially computers) and others in need. I have learned to not be judgemental towards those who made mistakes and are in financial trouble. I have found there is no car or whatever that comes close to seeing someone in need move forward in thier life due in part to working with them. I am committed to putting numerous young people through college, if they should choose to go and are willing to do the requisite work. I know both sides of life and I can tell you money can fix a lotta things. Life is good.

 

[Ws6]

You presume that people who have money pursued only money. A false assumption.

Many people pursue their passion and end up well compensated for doing so.

If they’re smart enough to save and invest along the way, then they will have both the happiness that a satisfying career brings and the wealth that their investment produced.

Those folks exist and they are actually happy….as well as financially secure.

Make no mistake, financial security brings a level of happiness along with it.

Consider the person who loves their job, and also has financial security. My AME is an example. As he nears 70, he works about thirty hours a week, at a job he enjoys (hand surgeon) but “doesn’t work too hard” - his words. He crossed the boundary where his investments exceed his income years ago.

So he spends his time doing something that he really enjoys, secure in knowing that he doesn’t have to work if he doesn’t want to.

His whole life was spent doing something he enjoyed. He didn’t chase money, or wealth, but in the end, he has wealth, satisfaction and a lifetime of doing what he enjoyed.

That is a life well-lived.

The problem is when none of your passions are profitable enough for you to pursue them and ALSO afford your passions, lol! That was what it was for me. So I pursue what I am good at, that makes money, in order to enjoy my passions.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The problem is when none of your passions are profitable enough for you to pursue them and ALSO afford your passions, lol! That was what it was for me. So I pursue what I am good at, that makes money, in order to enjoy my passions.

Yep. Depends on your passions. And where you live.

 

[Dave Hess]

The biggest problem I see is that many people are in a career they really don’t like but are making too much money to leave or start over in another career.

Example:
All the nurses (various specialties) I’ve asked with at least 20 years of experience if they could go back in time would they still choose nursing as a career..... 80% of these nurses said NO. Lots of burnout and stress as a nurse. I was asking nurses this question loooong before Covid even happened.


As for myself if I could go back in time:
I’d probably go into law enforcement, working undercover US Marshals / DEA agent riding with a fugitive outlaw, meth head biker gang that’s manufacturing and distributing crystal meth. I would ride a Harley, look like Dog the Bounty Hunter and wearing a wire to record all the illegal activities these criminals are committing.

Maybe flying a FedEx 777F..... maybe guitarist with Guns & Roses..... maybe QB for the New England Patriots.... ?

Something fun, exciting and enjoyable .

.

 

[PandaBear]

The biggest problem I see is that many people are in a career they really don’t like but are making too much money to leave or start over in another career.

There's a believe that during the first phase of lockdown many people lost their jobs, and found replacement jobs that are better, so now when the employers were calling them back they are not interested in going back because they are now in better places.

Of course the government cheese has something to do with it. When the gov cheese is out, we'll find out if this really is the main thing or if people really found a better job instead.