Interesting experience with MMO

[Injured_Again]

I posted this in a Miata forum, but I thought I'd post it here as well to see what opinions I got.

I bought my 1995 Miata last September, with 139k miles on it. It had sat for much of the past year before I bought it. When the weather got colder, it would occasionally blow a huge blue plume of oil smoke on cold startup. Because it only happened occasionally, I thought this was due to gummy oil control rings. I added about a pint of Marvel Mystery Oil to the crankcase, which I had changed to Mobil 1 5w-30 full synthetic, and took the Miata on a long, hard driving trip, which seemed to clear up much of this problem. The MMO also made the hydraulic lash ticking noise go away much more quickly on both cold and warm startup. After the driving trip, the engine ran much more smoothly, fuel economy increased by 10-15% (probably also attributable to Techron that I ran the engine time), and oil consumption decreased.

I changed the oil to full synthetic Rotella T6 5w-40 at the next change. My Miata did not take well to this. It started blowing the oil plume on cold startup again, and I'd get HLA noise for a minute or more occasionally on cold startup. However, instead of changing out the oil, in a fit of laziness, I dumped about half a pint of MMO into the crankcase and these symptoms went away.

This is the oil that is currently in there. It's approaching 5000 miles, and as it has gotten older, I'm burning a little more oil, maybe one quart every 800-1000 miles or so. I've also gotten more ticking on both warm and cold starts. The previous time the oil was low, I topped it off with Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30. Because I'm about to change the oil again, just today I decided to top it up again with some MMO to do a bit more cleaning.

I could not tell any difference when adding about 2/3 quart of Pennzoil Ultra. The engine ran the same and started the same. However, today, after adding about half a pint of MMO, the engine is clearly running more smoothly, both on idle and when revving. There is **zero** HLA noise on startup. I had occasional idle dips to about 500 RPMs when declutching, and that has gone away. I haven't had an oil plume on startup in months, and there is none now.

I'm pretty perplexed by this. MMO are light solvents in about a 5 weight oil, and it shouldn't have this kind of effect. It's also a slow cleaner and not a flush-type of additive. So the difference is engine smoothness and startup ticking must be due to the difference in oil properties by adding the MMO.

This last time, the Miata definitely didn't care for the thicker 5w-40 Rotella T6, but the initial adding of MMO to thin the oil made the oil plume and startup ticking much better, and now on the old oil which is probably even lower in viscosity, thinning it some more has made the engine run more smoothly. I'm really tempted to try a 0w-20 oil just to see if it is the low viscosity that is providing the benefit.

What is it in MMO that would have this effect on the engine?

 

[CharBaby]

MMO has done some nice things to my carb'd engines(OPE and '80 Firebird FORMULA V8), when added to the fuel systems.

I can't say much for MMO in EFI/computer controled engines as I have tried it for some length of time w/o much to talk about. I have never added MMO to the oil in any vehicle or OPE. I think everyone who uses MMO has a different experience.

 

[badtlc]

Your spirited driving session probably helped a lot too.

 

[Rolla07]

Maybe MMO helps on oil burners?? Who knows..didnt they claim to make engines last longer? I guess since oils werent as good back then, maybe you found the correct use for MMO. However on cars that run normally, i doubt MMO makes a difference. I suppose you can only tell if it works if you have a problem, add MMO (no other changes to habits/driving style) and it helps the issue. Although you had it sitting made a number of oil changes, again it didnt fix the problem if uhave to keep adding MMO. I hope it works out!

 

[Falken]

I think any amount of cleaning in the piston ring grooves to remove any amber crust and burnt carbon will reduce oil consumption once the rings are freed up more.

Combustion gasses pass around a ring to get them to "puff out" against the cylinder wall to create a better seal.

If they are jammed with crud, they aren't forced against the cylinder wall as well causing consumption.

That is why I don't use dirty Castrol anything in my cars.

 

[Donald]

Smoke at startup is normally valve stem seals.

Have you done a compression test?

The guys on CarTalk mentioned using 50% kerosene and 50% motor oil to clear up stuck rings. While they said it trashed all the engines they tried it in, they heard it worked for others.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Donald


The guys on CarTalk mentioned using 50% kerosene and 50% motor oil to clear up stuck rings. While they said it trashed all the engines they tried it in, they heard it worked for others.



I was silently sitting on the sidelines to see which MMO hater was going to take the first stab at ruining this thread. What does this have to do with what the OP is doing, which BTW is clearly working for him? It isn't even remotely close to adding a pint of MMO to an engine. Is this another attempt to derail a thread and turn it into another bash fest?

 

[1 SX]

Im sold on MMO! That is absolutely my GO TO product for ANYTHING that injects gas in to the cyls!
[censored]! I even run it as STRAIGHT oil in a 4 stroke scooter that blew an engine oil seal and leaked out my Mobil 1 racing synthetic a few miles away from home. The engine was already knocking, It was 2-3AM, and the only thing i had was MMO to keep the engine lubed!.. had to stop multiple times to fill up the MMO, and used up the whole QT in the few miles, but the engine never blew.
When i disassembled the engine, the crankshaft had a crack in it causing to much flex, in turn ruined the seals. Rest of the engine was spotless.. I use it mixed with fuel in ANYTHING that uses gas. I also use it in the engine oil. Only if using 10W30 or above.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Your spirited driving session probably helped a lot too.


I have no doubt that it did.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: SL2
Im sold on MMO! That is absolutely my GO TO product for ANYTHING that injects gas in to the cyls!
[censored]! I even run it as STRAIGHT oil in a 4 stroke scooter that blew an engine oil seal and leaked out my Mobil 1 racing synthetic a few miles away from home. The engine was already knocking, It was 2-3AM, and the only thing i had was MMO to keep the engine lubed!.. had to stop multiple times to fill up the MMO, and used up the whole QT in the few miles, but the engine never blew.
When i disassembled the engine, the crankshaft had a crack in it causing to much flex, in turn ruined the seals. Rest of the engine was spotless.. I use it mixed with fuel in ANYTHING that uses gas. I also use it in the engine oil. Only if using 10W30 or above.


Wow. Impressive

 

[kb27]

I used to have a Hyundai Getz, using the "best" engine oil like Mobil 1, Redline and Amsoil.

For some reasons, none of them seemed to be able to get rid of the engine ticking sound. And after reading so many threads on MMO, I decided to dump a bottle into the engine oil.

And sure enough, the next day, the ticking sound is gone.

Whatever it is, it works for me and a few other friends who swear by MMO as well.

 

[LeakySeals]

^^

Its one of the few additives that works as advertised.

 

[KCJeep]

Love the stuff, cheap and it works. I use it in the gas always and get much better mpg in the Jeep, runs smoother with it in than without also. I have used it in the crankcase off and on and the oil always darkens quickly after adding it regardless of where I am in the OCI (Jeep is dirty). And the engine invariably will run quieter when it's in the crankcase as well.

I've long wanted to do consequetive UOA's with the same oil with and without MMO but I switch oils too much, I keep biting on sales. May do a single UOA anyway just to confirm whether or not the MMO is destroying my engine ha ha.

 

[Injured_Again]

I'll probably do a UOA just to see what's going on. I'm still perplexed as to why the engine has reacted in this way.

The hydraulic lash adapters typically will leak out a very lightweight oil, so they'll tick, possibly loudly, for a few seconds after startup until they get pumped back up. The MMO should have thinned out the oil making it much easier to leak down, but the reverse has happened.

Also, I've always experienced the newfound smoothness that an engine runs with after an oil change. Yet, adding nearly a quart of synthetic didn't change the way the engine ran, yet half a pint of MMO makes it run smoother.

If the MMO reduces the shear strength of the oil because it thins it out, I would think I'd hear that "death rattle" you get on some engines like when they pull off a track after doing some hot laps. I hear none of that.

So, I'm curious why.

Some other notes. The oil plume on cold startup happened about every fourth or fifth time and it was huge - a big dark blue ball of smoke maybe 20 feet in diameter. I also thought valve stem seals at first, but then there would be times it would start up and not smoke at all. I haven't had any visible oil smoke on cold or hot startup for several months now.

I did some medium length drives with the car before the driving trip, and these were 100 miles round trip running 3500-4000 RPMs on the freeway. I ran techron for many of these drives, but it didn't really change the engine behavior in any way. The driving trip was two days, nearly 800 miles, and about half of that was on deserted, winding country roads where I was in the upper half of the rev range and at most times going nearly full throttle out of every corner. That was the first time I had used any solvent in the crankcase.

I have to admit that I'm typically opposed to "snake oil" type remedies, but the MMO does seem to make things better. It's my personality to try to figure out why, and this has me perplexed.

 

[Injured_Again]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Love the stuff, cheap and it works. I use it in the gas always and get much better mpg in the Jeep, runs smoother with it in than without also.


My son "inherited" our basically pristine 1996 BMW 3-series a couple of years back after he got his license. His driving is mostly short trips to and from the park-n-ride, and I noticed that it was getting pretty gummed up just looking in through the oil filler hole. So, my wife and I were taking a 400 mile driving trip and decided to put some MMO in the crankcase and the gas tank.

I don't see any change with the deposits in the crankcase, but the MMO created a series of P0140 low catalyst efficiency CELs. It took a few tanks of hard driving to stop it from happening, and it coincided with me putting MMO in the gas tank. So, I've never used it in that car again since it doesn't seem to help.

On my Miata, though, I can look through the oil filler hole and see clean metal with no deposits.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Injured_Again
I'll probably do a UOA just to see what's going on. I'm still perplexed as to why the engine has reacted in this way.

The hydraulic lash adapters typically will leak out a very lightweight oil, so they'll tick, possibly loudly, for a few seconds after startup until they get pumped back up. The MMO should have thinned out the oil making it much easier to leak down, but the reverse has happened.

Also, I've always experienced the newfound smoothness that an engine runs with after an oil change. Yet, adding nearly a quart of synthetic didn't change the way the engine ran, yet half a pint of MMO makes it run smoother.

If the MMO reduces the shear strength of the oil because it thins it out, I would think I'd hear that "death rattle" you get on some engines like when they pull off a track after doing some hot laps. I hear none of that.

So, I'm curious why.

Some other notes. The oil plume on cold startup happened about every fourth or fifth time and it was huge - a big dark blue ball of smoke maybe 20 feet in diameter. I also thought valve stem seals at first, but then there would be times it would start up and not smoke at all. I haven't had any visible oil smoke on cold or hot startup for several months now.

I did some medium length drives with the car before the driving trip, and these were 100 miles round trip running 3500-4000 RPMs on the freeway. I ran techron for many of these drives, but it didn't really change the engine behavior in any way. The driving trip was two days, nearly 800 miles, and about half of that was on deserted, winding country roads where I was in the upper half of the rev range and at most times going nearly full throttle out of every corner. That was the first time I had used any solvent in the crankcase.

I have to admit that I'm typically opposed to "snake oil" type remedies, but the MMO does seem to make things better. It's my personality to try to figure out why, and this has me perplexed.


My take on it.
You had an oil way too thick(rotella 5w-40) in the sump causing the lifters to pump up very slowly. The mmo thinned the oil to the ideal viscosity.
The mmo may also have cleaned any residual gunk,that and the spirited drive has brought the engine into basically an ideal state of repair.
So now if you run an oil of ideal ht/hs you should maintain this ideal state.
If it means anything my 88 5.0 fox has been running better than it ever has using a 20 grade mix of a few quarts I had laying around. It is 2 quarts m1 5w-20,2 quarts pp 0w-20 and 1 quart eneos 0w-20.
In my past experience with M1 it contributed to a much noisier valve train however I haven't heard anything out of the ordinary using this fankenbrew and to be honest I only did it to see if my oil pressure would suffer greatly,which it hasn't. I'm really adopting faith in the 20 grades of today.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Injured_Again
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Love the stuff, cheap and it works. I use it in the gas always and get much better mpg in the Jeep, runs smoother with it in than without also.


My son "inherited" our basically pristine 1996 BMW 3-series a couple of years back after he got his license. His driving is mostly short trips to and from the park-n-ride, and I noticed that it was getting pretty gummed up just looking in through the oil filler hole. So, my wife and I were taking a 400 mile driving trip and decided to put some MMO in the crankcase and the gas tank.

I don't see any change with the deposits in the crankcase, but the MMO created a series of P0140 low catalyst efficiency CELs. It took a few tanks of hard driving to stop it from happening, and it coincided with me putting MMO in the gas tank. So, I've never used it in that car again since it doesn't seem to help.

On my Miata, though, I can look through the oil filler hole and see clean metal with no deposits.


Mmo either works or it doesn't. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground with it. For me I've found that its cheap enough to try in various applications and I have yet to see or feel any real negatives with its use. So I will continue to have 4 bottles on the shelf,just in case.

 

[Injured_Again]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Injured_Again
I'll probably do a UOA just to see what's going on. I'm still perplexed as to why the engine has reacted in this way.

The hydraulic lash adapters typically will leak out a very lightweight oil, so they'll tick, possibly loudly, for a few seconds after startup until they get pumped back up. The MMO should have thinned out the oil making it much easier to leak down, but the reverse has happened.

Also, I've always experienced the newfound smoothness that an engine runs with after an oil change. Yet, adding nearly a quart of synthetic didn't change the way the engine ran, yet half a pint of MMO makes it run smoother.

If the MMO reduces the shear strength of the oil because it thins it out, I would think I'd hear that "death rattle" you get on some engines like when they pull off a track after doing some hot laps. I hear none of that.

So, I'm curious why.

Some other notes. The oil plume on cold startup happened about every fourth or fifth time and it was huge - a big dark blue ball of smoke maybe 20 feet in diameter. I also thought valve stem seals at first, but then there would be times it would start up and not smoke at all. I haven't had any visible oil smoke on cold or hot startup for several months now.

I did some medium length drives with the car before the driving trip, and these were 100 miles round trip running 3500-4000 RPMs on the freeway. I ran techron for many of these drives, but it didn't really change the engine behavior in any way. The driving trip was two days, nearly 800 miles, and about half of that was on deserted, winding country roads where I was in the upper half of the rev range and at most times going nearly full throttle out of every corner. That was the first time I had used any solvent in the crankcase.

I have to admit that I'm typically opposed to "snake oil" type remedies, but the MMO does seem to make things better. It's my personality to try to figure out why, and this has me perplexed.


My take on it.
You had an oil way too thick(rotella 5w-40) in the sump causing the lifters to pump up very slowly. The mmo thinned the oil to the ideal viscosity.
The mmo may also have cleaned any residual gunk,that and the spirited drive has brought the engine into basically an ideal state of repair.
So now if you run an oil of ideal ht/hs you should maintain this ideal state.
If it means anything my 88 5.0 fox has been running better than it ever has using a 20 grade mix of a few quarts I had laying around. It is 2 quarts m1 5w-20,2 quarts pp 0w-20 and 1 quart eneos 0w-20.
In my past experience with M1 it contributed to a much noisier valve train however I haven't heard anything out of the ordinary using this fankenbrew and to be honest I only did it to see if my oil pressure would suffer greatly,which it hasn't. I'm really adopting faith in the 20 grades of today.


I used the Rotella partly in response to the oil burning that was going on at that time. As this fill of Rotella with MMO has gone through a few thousand miles, the oil burn decreased significantly, and is now increasing again, probably because the fill is getting close to 5000 miles of use.

My major conundrum is whether or not to use MMO with the next oil change. I think it's pretty clear that the previous startup oil plumes were due to sticky oil control rings and not worn valve stem seals, but I also would have to guess that the oil control rings, while they may be working better, may still need more cleaning.

I'm going to go to a 0w-20 or 0w-30 full synthetic this next oil change. I'll try it initially without MMO and see how the engine reacts.

Thanks again.

 

[KCJeep]

Use a 0w30. Then if issues return you still have some fudge room to add a little MMO again if you want to.

 

[steve20]

I've been using MMO since the 70's---off and on, only as required. I have used it continuously in a 351C Ford which would tick unless it had MMO in it period, no ifs ands or buts. Did no harm as I could tell, it was a 1971 which ran to 145K