Ignition switch fix would've been $1 per vehicle

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
....
1. WOULD YOU PURCHASE A GM made vehicle at this point in time? ....


Sure, this would be a non issue for me, and apparently for virtually all consumers of the cars, it has been a non issue.

Has there been a factual determination made, that an on spec part would not have failed under the same circumstances that the off spec part is alleged to have failed?

That's going to be a case by case issue in these fatalities, and If a "good" part would not have made any difference in the outcome, this won't go very far.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
I believe this is what its all about



Just tried this on the M5 to see if I could do it on a non-GM vehicle. No go.

Will try it on the Expedition next, see if it is doable on a Ford. I'm sure there are other manufacturers that this would apply to.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
1. WOULD YOU PURCHASE A GM made vehicle at this point in time?

Yes. Many different models.


Indeed. This is nearly a media creation. They love to fan the flames.

Excellent distraction.

My heart goes out to the folks hurt and the families of those killed, but when do people start accepting some personal responsibility for their own safety?

I haven't replaced an ignition key in our GM fleet all the way out to 500k miles. It just doesn't happen. I wonder why me and all my co-workers are not dead or maimed. I'm gonna call a lawyer!

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
I believe this is what its all about



Just tried this on the M5 to see if I could do it on a non-GM vehicle. No go.

Will try it on the Expedition next, see if it is doable on a Ford. I'm sure there are other manufacturers that this would apply to.


I tried it on my silverado and it worked, but my ignition is probably somewhat worn because I start my truck a couple dozen times a day and have already worn out a couple of keys.

Maybe I'll get lucky and GM will recall my truck and give me a new set of tumblers, I'd love that!

 

[Sam2000]

Thanks for posting that video.

It makes it clear that there is poor engineering. Both the angle and force required are clearly wrong.

This is the kind of thing I personally would notice the first time I switched off the ignition. It amazes me that those responsible for quality don't notice such things and for something potentially critical aren't able to imagine a worse case scenario.

Its laziness and lack of attention to detail, unfortunately this is common throughout this country. But it does amaze me that we live in a litigious society and yet that doesn't resonate with some people responsible for critical systems.

The bigger the fines on this and opening a criminal investigation on the engineers and executives seem to be in order here as a deterrent and wake up call.

And I also agree that if you have a ridiculous number of keys on the chain, you need to take some responsibility too. But the facts are clear in this case. GM accepted a part below their own spec and knowingly used it for years. They did not follow their own procedures and did not update the part number which hampered investigations.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
1. WOULD YOU PURCHASE A GM made vehicle at this point in time?

Yes. Many different models.


YES, same here, DESPITE this, and ESPECIALLY to spite those who are angry about them being "G********* Motors".

Although I DO like the current (and future) Stangs, and Focus/Fiesta STs/performance versions.

 

[Rick in PA]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
I believe this is what its all about



They could start by making the hole in the key (for the key ring) smaller. That would give the weight of the key ring a smaller moment arm.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
1. WOULD YOU PURCHASE A GM made vehicle at this point in time?

Yes. Many different models.


Indeed. This is nearly a media creation. They love to fan the flames.

Excellent distraction.

My heart goes out to the folks hurt and the families of those killed, but when do people start accepting some personal responsibility for their own safety?

I haven't replaced an ignition key in our GM fleet all the way out to 500k miles. It just doesn't happen. I wonder why me and all my co-workers are not dead or maimed. I'm gonna call a lawyer!


My guess because you have no recalled vehicles in your fleet? The vehicles being recalled don't last 500k.

 

[artificialist]

Installing a revised part might not even solve the problem.

When I had a Saturn ION, the ignition barrel bailed around 2008. In 2009, the redesigned one failed, but thankfully was covered by warranty.

Anyway, I swore off GM years ago.

You know, GM said the 90s would be the decade where they fixed the wrongdoing of the 80s. They then said the 2000-2009 cars were going to be built right. Why should I believe this decade will actually be good?

I know Honda and Toyota have declined in recent years, they sank more slowly than GM rose.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: dishdude
What is the purpose of posting that picture? It tells nothing. For all we know the driver was passed out drunk. Do you want to discuss facts or was that an attempt to invoke an emotional reaction?


Oops missed link . Notice the undischarged air bags in the Cobalt. The family is suing GM as the car lost control/inexperienced drivers and slammed a telephone pole killing the driver and front passenger. Interesting test case of suing the new GM for old GM indiscretions.

The idea of too many keys is GMs excuse for poor design and blame the customer.

I have no hate for GM, just despise poor business decision which GM values profits,overpaid execs., overpaid labor over fixing a clear defect.

I still don't undestand why a part is not corrected even without recalling the old?


More agenda-driven journalism. There were two crashes referred to in this article. In both, the occupants of the car were not wearing their seatbelts. One was legally drunk and travelling 69mph in a 25mph zone.

Doesn't lessen the tragedy any, but it makes me wonder how many more of these incidents involve other contributing factors. Had these girls been wearing their seatbelts, perhaps the outcome would have been vastly different. Airbags are called "supplemental restraint systems" for a reason. They are there to add additional protection to the primary safety device, the seatbelt.

So while we're crucifying GM, how about we point out the actions that these poor kids could have taken before the crash than might have allowed them to survive.


Air bag failed for then unknown reasons. Now obvious GM ignored a safety defect irrelevant to actions of driver. It would be a non issue if the car had its air bags deployed but it did not.

Furthermore what div>


How many 20-year-old girls DON'T have a bunch of junk on their keychain?

 

[jimbrewer]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
From what I've read, GM knowingly accepted a part that was below their spec. An engineer rejected updating the part because of the expense and put off the upgrade until 2009.

And when the part was upgraded, the part number was not changed and internal GM procedures were not followed. The lack of a part number change prevented GM from identifying the problem once the reports of ignitions switching off were reported.

Not following procedures and skimping on quality happens all the time and when the combination of factors is right, it will come back and bite you.

A question worth asking is whether cars should be designed to turn off airbags when still in motion but with the ignition off.


Supposedly in the bad old days GM was notorious for putting its parts requirements out to bid, then demanding a further discount from the winning bidder. The only way to meet the price was to throw quality control out the window. That's how a cleverly designed car like the Chevy Citation ends up as a notorious pile of junk I guess.

 

[Bamaro]

Here is a picture of the offending part. The shorter one on the top is the bad detent spring. The one on the bottom is the fix.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
I believe this is what its all about



Just tried this on the M5 to see if I could do it on a non-GM vehicle. No go.

Will try it on the Expedition next, see if it is doable on a Ford. I'm sure there are other manufacturers that this would apply to.


Tried it on the Expedition (which has an oblong hole in the key head) with the key situated both ways, no go, it doesn't shut off.

 

[rjundi]

I believe the Cobalt was never a profit generator for GM. Simply needed to sell something in order to meet CAFE requirements. Undercutting a part on a non-profit car likely was factored in decision to keep churning on it.

Clearly ALL automakers cannot engineer in the USA a car that size or smaller that is top tier since everyone of them essentially imported their designs and have decent offerings finally IMHO for the first time. I am referring to Cruze, Sonic, Fiesta, Focus, Dart which all are imported design. Basically the Geo badge all over again.

 

[Vikas]

Almost all of my experience is with Japanese car but looking at that youtube video, the angle of the slot in the steering column seems little bit weird to me. All of my cars have the slot (aka OFF position)parallel to the steering column and thus engine ON position would be mostly vertical.

Is this just the GM way of doing things differently?

 

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
A few years ago it was Toyota, before that Ford...it happens. In those cases I think the media and the government blew both out of proportion a bit, and the same is happening here.

The roads are dangerous, hundreds of people die on them each day.

.....but 10 years knowing about this problem, continueing to use defective designs that were not up to their specs..... with the end result killing a bunch of people....INEXCUSEABLE.

It will be a long time before I, and many in my family, buy a new or used GM vehicle.

 

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
1. WOULD YOU PURCHASE A GM made vehicle at this point in time?

Yes. Many different models.

I would bet the equity in my home....that the sales of GM vehicles will decline during the next three quarters (at least).

If I owned the stock, I would be dumping it now.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: dishdude
A few years ago it was Toyota, before that Ford...it happens. In those cases I think the media and the government blew both out of proportion a bit, and the same is happening here.

The roads are dangerous, hundreds of people die on them each day.

.....but 10 years knowing about this problem, continueing to use defective designs that were not up to their specs..... with the end result killing a bunch of people....INEXCUSEABLE.

It will be a long time before I, and many in my family, buy a new or used GM vehicle.


Oh get off your high horse. Ford built the Explorer knowing it had a tendency to roll over just like the Bronco II it was built off of, and sold it for over 10 years killing a bunch of people. I see you're driving a Ford.

At least in this case the car just turns off it you overload the keychain, not rollover or go WOT.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: dishdude

At least in this case the car just turns off it you overload the keychain, not rollover or go WOT.

You don't have to overload a keychain to have this problem. It didn't matter what GM car I encountered, the ignition switches were still too failure prone.

 

[Bamaro]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Almost all of my experience is with Japanese car but looking at that youtube video, the angle of the slot in the steering column seems little bit weird to me. All of my cars have the slot (aka OFF position)parallel to the steering column and thus engine ON position would be mostly vertical.

Is this just the GM way of doing things differently?

Yup, I'm guessing that if the key would have been in the total vertical (12 o'clock) position when ignition was on this may not have been a problem. Gravity would keep it on.