I hate ice

[ecotourist]

The only thing worse than ice is water on top of ice. I did 1 1/2 rotations on wet ice one day and ended up backing down the street, all without touching a curb. I wasn't going very fast either. A little water was running across the street but it seems there was ice underneath it.

I think that was only possible because my car had a manual transmission. My hands were too occupied to have slipped a gear shift lever into neutral, but my clutch foot was free and automatically went into action. And with the clutch depressed the car would go backwards quite easily.

And I was probably lucky.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Ah , that's no good!

Going to replace the door and rocker panel?

 

[Astro14]

It would make me pucker landing an airliner in nasty conditions. I couldn't imagine.

While the velocities are much higher, and the maneuver more complex, we have up to the minute data on weather and runway condition, including the coefficient of friction, from which to do a detailed performance analysis.

We know the airplane’s weight, approach speed, and thus, the ground speed, as well as the runway elevation, length, and slope.

In many ways, we are in a better position than the OP.

 

[ecotourist]

If you do replace the rocker panel be sure to have the inside treated (once or better yet occasionally) with rust preventive.

 

[JTK]

That rocker is a mess! Such a clean looking Yaris too.

I'd find a recommended body shop and have them fix it. My wife crushed a section of the right side rocker on our 2016 Nissan Quest minivan years ago, running over a landscape boulder while pulling out of a drive-through (sigh). I was amazed as how well a local body shop fixed it. I am not an expert, but can usually tell what's been meddled with. I couldn't tell on this. The only problem was the paint work. It rock/stone chipped badly on the underside after one winter. Never rusted, but chipped.

 

[Oillover]

Its an aftermarket TRD clutch type unit I had put in about 50k ago when I had to get an output shaft bearing replaced.

Thank you for this.
After a recent snowfall, I've been toying with the idea of adding an LSD on our Honda.
It only has 44k miles, but I really like it and plan to keep it as long as possible.
We don't race it or anything, but I'd like the added stability of LSD in slippery conditions.

Do you have a particular LSD brand you'd recommend?
Being a Honda, there's plenty of options, but the prices are all over the place.
I literally can't tell the difference between a $500 and a $1500 LSD!?
They all say similar statements on quality etc.

 

[Astro14]

That rocker is a mess! Such a clean looking Yaris too.

I'd find a recommended body shop and have them fix it. My wife crushed a section of the right side rocker on our 2016 Nissan Quest minivan years ago, running over a landscape boulder while pulling out of a drive-through (sigh). I was amazed as how well a local body shop fixed it. I am not an expert, but can usually tell what's been meddled with. I couldn't tell on this. The only problem was the paint work. It rock/stone chipped badly on the underside after one winter. Never rusted, but chipped.

Are you suggesting that he go directly to the body shop?

Because the repair market has shifted dramatically over the past few years.

Repair costs are very high, parts are hard to come by, and body shops are booked out for months in advance. Accordingly, insurance companies are predisposed to total a car.

And given the miles on this Yaris, and the year, I hate to say it, but the OP might be facing a choice between getting it totaled or paying out of pocket.

 

[Malo83]

Slow down.

 

[JTK]

Are you suggesting that he go directly to the body shop?

Because the repair market has shifted dramatically over the past few years.

Repair costs are very high, parts are hard to come by, and body shops are booked out for months in advance. Accordingly, insurance companies are predisposed to total a car.

And given the miles on this Yaris, and the year, I hate to say it, but the OP might be facing a choice between getting it totaled or paying out of pocket.

I suppose I am depending on how he feels about the vehicle.

I hear you about the current state of affairs in any service industry these days and the costs involved, but it's situation specific.

Two months ago my 2019 Nissan Pathfinder needed ~$9K worth of collision work due to a deer strike. The local shop I chose came and got it from my driveway (flatbed) within an hour of me calling them and had the job done in just over a week.

 

[c502cid]

While the velocities are much higher, and the maneuver more complex, we have up to the minute data on weather and runway condition, including the coefficient of friction, from which to do a detailed performance analysis.

We know the airplane’s weight, approach speed, and thus, the ground speed, as well as the runway elevation, length, and slope.

In many ways, we are in a better position than the OP.

I've always wondered why airliners don't slide when landing on snowy, icy runways. I know you have lots of information (thank you Channel 9), but still!

 

[Astro14]

I've always wondered why airliners don't slide when landing on snowy, icy runways. I know you have lots of information (thank you Channel 9), but still!

We do slide, sometimes!

But in those conditions, we knew it was coming. The preponderance of stopping an airplane is done with the wheel brakes, most of the time.

You can use reverse thrust to pretty good effect - if you know that’s gonna be where you get most of your deceleration.

 

[SeaJay]

You weren't hurt and the car still runs and drives. A "good" accident if there is such a thing.

 

[zzyzzx]

I like ice:

 

[Danno]

Yeah, agreed, but black ice can be hard to see - particularly when it’s near 0C outside.

Looking at that roadway, in the OP photos of his car, was it damp with dew? Or was it slick with black ice?

Drive enough near freezing temps, and you’ll get surprised now and then, just as he did.

I'm trained as a Smith System Driver trainer.
The question is, did you see anyone else go off the raod on that corner? If not, what did they do differently. They drove slower is usually the answer, because they knew conditions meant you needed to drive slower. There are almost always "tells" if conditions are bad. Sideways slip, slip when accelerating, other vehicles skidding, etc.
I use winter tires for our winters, but I always have to remind myself to slow down. The winter tires make drivers over-confident, so that if you do lose traction, the resulting event is bigger than if you were on all seasons driving at a slower pace.

 

[ecotourist]

Curves on the highway are banked. One of my physics professors pointed out that there is a speed at which the centrifugal force (the outward force due to going around a curve) exactly matches the centripital force (the inward force due to sliding down as a result of the banking). At that speed you can go around a corner no matter how icy without slipping off on the inside or on the outside.

I think that the ideal speed is posted on many highway corners as the suggested speed.

The point of all that is you can go off the road because you're going too slow too.

 

[ecotourist]

I'm trained as a Smith System Driver trainer.
The question is, did you see anyone else go off the raod on that corner? If not, what did they do differently. They drove slower is usually the answer, because they knew conditions meant you needed to drive slower. There are almost always "tells" if conditions are bad. Sideways slip, slip when accelerating, other vehicles skidding, etc.

When driving in marginal conditions I keep an eye on the rear view mirror. Depending on the position of the sun, you can sometimes see a sheen on the road behind you (which you can't see in front of you) which is a warning that the road is getting icy. When you've seen it even once you'll never miss it.

I've also seen small trucks behind me do a little wiggle which means they're starting to lose traction at the back end. That's another sign that the road is getting slippery.

 

[malibuguy79]

Thank you for this.
After a recent snowfall, I've been toying with the idea of adding an LSD on our Honda.
It only has 44k miles, but I really like it and plan to keep it as long as possible.
We don't race it or anything, but I'd like the added stability of LSD in slippery conditions.

Do you have a particular LSD brand you'd recommend?
Being a Honda, there's plenty of options, but the prices are all over the place.
I literally can't tell the difference between a $500 and a $1500 LSD!?
They all say similar statements on quality etc.

For a daily driver get a Helical like a Quaife...whichhave lifetime warranty. I am a bit backwards...racecar has a helical and the daily has the clutch type.

Clutch type can chatter and lurch at low speeds. Alot of people will not like it. But hot **** throttle down thru a corner and the car just rockets out. Snow matters are a little strange but in a good way just takes inputs a little differently.

 

[dumkid]

We do slide, sometimes!

But in those conditions, we knew it was coming. The preponderance of stopping an airplane is done with the wheel brakes, most of the time.

You can use reverse thrust to pretty good effect - if you know that’s gonna be where you get most of your deceleration.

If you're on ice in a plane, you can use the control surfaces to steer, yes? I don't often see cars with tailfins that let them steer without the wheels. But I've never seen a plane without fins that let it steer (unless it's a toy or a woodworking tool)

 

[Astro14]

If you're on ice in a plane, you can use the control surfaces to steer, yes? I don't often see cars with tailfins that let them steer without the wheels. But I've never seen a plane without fins that let it steer (unless it's a toy or a woodworking tool)

Those surfaces work until about 80 knots - so, somewhere around 90 MPH - you're on wheels alone.

So, unlike a car - we still have quite a bit of speed remaining while the surface is slick.

 

[Nick1994]

I wouldn't even bother with repairing that rocker panel, just sand it down and use a can of white color match spray paint, I doubt it'll be that noticeable. Then put on a white junkyard door.