Hyundai says 0w-20 and 0w-30 would void warranty..

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Hyundai didn't say your warranty would automatically be void if you use 0w-20 or 0w-30. They said IF you damaged something because you used 0w-30 or whatever other viscosity, AND the damage was caused by that incorrect viscosity, THEN it would be void.

For sure. That, too, would apply if one used the 5w-20 or 5w-30 as directed and it happened to be a bad batch and Hyundai could prove it (as in prove it sufficiently for court); then, it would be on the oil company to do the fix.


And how long would all this legal wrangling take? About ten years or so is my guess. Better have another car as backup!

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Hyundai didn't say your warranty would automatically be void if you use 0w-20 or 0w-30. They said IF you damaged something because you used 0w-30 or whatever other viscosity, AND the damage was caused by that incorrect viscosity, THEN it would be void.

For sure. That, too, would apply if one used the 5w-20 or 5w-30 as directed and it happened to be a bad batch and Hyundai could prove it (as in prove it sufficiently for court); then, it would be on the oil company to do the fix.


And how long would all this legal wrangling take? About ten years or so is my guess. Better have another car as backup!


Exactly. It is just not worth the hassle you might run into to run a 0W vs a 5W in 20 or 30 weight. The difference is so minimal that 99% of people won't see any difference. Unless you live where it hits 40 below regularly just run the recommended weight until you are out of warranty.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
And how long would all this legal wrangling take? About ten years or so is my guess. Better have another car as backup!

Oh, for sure. My point is, though, that if the oil actually causes the failure regardless of grade, it's really not something for the automaker to fix under warranty. I'm sure it would never happen, but it would be interesting, hypothetically, because I wouldn't wish such a scenario on my worst enemy, to see an engine failure, have the OEM find the oil totally out of specification, yet the owner could prove that he bought and installed the correct grade, API certification, and so forth.

I would guess even the automaker wouldn't push it unless it was a lot more than a "bad batch." If it were threatening their warranty numbers across the board (i.e. a major had shipped a lot of bad oil), they might pay attention.

As for the ultra cold, I've started vehicles with 5w-30 conventional in -40. Sure, a 0w-XX might be "better," but not essential.

 

[Quest]

methinks that OP is just splitting hairs...as if anything 5W20 or 5W30 is gonna make his vehicle car-boom!

Well big deal! I lived in the prairies before with -36C windchills and no block heater (public parking), I still crank my then 10W30 filled suzuki 3cyl engine and start it up to go to school (and back). that was an 86 M/T that the 75W90 M/T oil would be so thick that I had to carefully nurse(engage) it in order to avoid stalling my engine. Did the engine goes car-boom? nope? did the engine last as long as it should?! yeah! After I graduated in 97 (still runs strong, pass local emissions and no oil burning, etc.) I sold it to my roommate and was good until he flipped it on the highway in 2002...

Funny how internet is now so polarised: on 1 hand: the "thick" guys insisted that anything 5W20 or lower will cause the engine to grind to a halt; then the "thin" guys come along and try to talk themselves into using 0W20 (just wait til 16 weight came into NA market from Japan).

Wonder what's on the fad-o-meter next?

*laughs*

Q.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: salv
Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: J. A. Rizzo
Sounds like you got your answer already: 5W-20 for maximum protection of your warranty. Why would they tell you the warranty could be invalidated by using 0W-20 if they thought it protected your engine better? What is it you want to protect the engine from? If 0W products make you feel better and you're OK with the (probably very tiny) risk that they could deny an engine warranty claim if you have a problem and they do the necessary testing to discover your non-recommended oil grade, then use 0W-20 or 0W-30 and rest easy. Your engine will probably be perfectly healthy for a very long time no matter what you choose, and if it ever does fail, it will probably have nothing to do with your engine oil anyway. More miles, less worry. These are trivial details. The engineering has already been done for you.


2.4L engines have a history of a spun 2nd crankshaft bearing. Oil changes would be the first question by the dealer.

Why risk it?


No, they don't. Never seen a spun bearing on a Hyundai Theta motor.
Any API or ACEA 20 or 30 weight should be more than fine. I would never report the oil grade used when appealing to Hyundai for coverage under warranty. That would be shooting myself in the foot. My shop loses work, and my customer is [censored]. As long as the vehicle has been reasonably maintained, I will get that motor covered.
Use whatever 20 or 30 weight that suits you and don't look back.
If an oil meets Dexos 1, it will perform above and beyond Hyundai's requirements.

Salv, it's good to here the voice of practical experience in dealing with warranty issues. There is way too much unnecessary hand wringing concerning oil choice and whether it could void a warranty on BITOG.
If you maintain your car properly the oil you use within reason should be non issue, particularly choosing to use a 0W-20 synthetic where a 5W-20 dino is specified.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Quest
methinks that OP is just splitting hairs...as if anything 5W20 or 5W30 is gonna make his vehicle car-boom!

Well big deal! I lived in the prairies before with -36C windchills and no block heater (public parking), I still crank my then 10W30 filled suzuki 3cyl engine and start it up to go to school (and back). that was an 86 M/T that the 75W90 M/T oil would be so thick that I had to carefully nurse(engage) it in order to avoid stalling my engine. Did the engine goes car-boom? nope? did the engine last as long as it should?! yeah! After I graduated in 97 (still runs strong, pass local emissions and no oil burning, etc.) I sold it to my roommate and was good until he flipped it on the highway in 2002...

Funny how internet is now so polarised: on 1 hand: the "thick" guys insisted that anything 5W20 or lower will cause the engine to grind to a halt; then the "thin" guys come along and try to talk themselves into using 0W20 (just wait til 16 weight came into NA market from Japan).

Wonder what's on the fad-o-meter next?

*laughs*

Q.


Spot on!

I love it when guys from US start suggesting all sorts of oils for guys living in Canada because we apparently have "extreme cold" conditions, while many parts of US are as cold or colder and telling us how we need as much cold start protection as possible.

Meanwhile the average Joe Blow uses whatever bulk dino is available at their oil change place, has no trouble starting the car, even when not plugged in, and our cars can last as long as cars in southern states. Rust is what determines how long the car will live up here, just like in many states, not oil choice.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Quest
methinks that OP is just splitting hairs...as if anything 5W20 or 5W30 is gonna make his vehicle car-boom!

Well big deal! I lived in the prairies before with -36C windchills and no block heater (public parking), I still crank my then 10W30 filled suzuki 3cyl engine and start it up to go to school (and back). that was an 86 M/T that the 75W90 M/T oil would be so thick that I had to carefully nurse(engage) it in order to avoid stalling my engine. Did the engine goes car-boom? nope? did the engine last as long as it should?! yeah! After I graduated in 97 (still runs strong, pass local emissions and no oil burning, etc.) I sold it to my roommate and was good until he flipped it on the highway in 2002...

Funny how internet is now so polarised: on 1 hand: the "thick" guys insisted that anything 5W20 or lower will cause the engine to grind to a halt; then the "thin" guys come along and try to talk themselves into using 0W20 (just wait til 16 weight came into NA market from Japan).

Wonder what's on the fad-o-meter next?

*laughs*

Q.


Spot on!

I love it when guys from US start suggesting all sorts of oils for guys living in Canada because we apparently have "extreme cold" conditions, while many parts of US are as cold or colder and telling us how we need as much cold start protection as possible.

Meanwhile the average Joe Blow uses whatever bulk dino is available at their oil change place, has no trouble starting the car, even when not plugged in, and our cars can last as long as cars in southern states. Rust is what determines how long the car will live up here, just like in many states, not oil choice.

Except what you don't fully appreciate is that when a manufacturer spec's a 0W-XX oil it has little to do with the extreme cold performance; an oil's ability to pump at -40 degrees but rather cold flow at more typical start-up temp's.
And what determines an oils cold starting at typical start-up temp's is an oil's viscosity index.

For example TGMO 0W-20 has a 216 VI but a typical dino 5W-20 like PYB 150. That translates into TGMO being over 30% lighter on start-up at 72F and over 50% lighter at 32F. And yes that's a big enough difference to notice and practically everyone who has actually tried an ultra high VI oil has noticed the difference.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
There is way too much unnecessary hand wringing concerning oil choice and whether it could void a warranty on BITOG.
Agreed.

I also don't understand why anyone would write to a manufacturer and ask them to sanction a choice not listed in the owner's manual. It just is not going to happen, ever. That would open them up to all kinds of trouble when word got out that they told someone it was OK to use something other than their standard recommendation. Nope. Won't happen.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

For example TGMO 0W-20 has a 216 VI but a typical dino 5W-20 like PYB 150. That translates into TGMO being over 30% lighter on start-up at 72F and over 50% lighter at 32F. And yes that's a big enough difference to notice and practically everyone who has actually tried an ultra high VI oil has noticed the difference.


You are correct and I am not trying to dispute that. My question, that I repeat in most of these type threads, is: How does that translate into engine life? How many more mile are we to expect from an engine? How does this 50% lighter at 32F translate into longer lasting engine?
The OP seemed to be concerned that 5wXX oils don't provide adequate protection, hence he started this thread. Now where would he get such an idea if it wasn't for all the thin oil threads talking about maximizing protection, start up wear and how it is all so bad that we should do everything we can to minimize it, totally forgetting that perhaps manufacturers already factored in start up wear protection in whatever oil they specified.
Coincidently we recently had some oil consumption threads in the Gen III Prius where 0w20 oil is specified, but no such concerns were posted for gen I and II where 5w30 oil was specified.
I'm starting to think that the hot protection margins are being cut down so severely in order to maximize fuel economy, that we will be seeing more oil consumption problems in relatively low mileage cars. I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[AEHaas]

I have used 0W-20 grade oils in 500-600-700 BHP sports cars for around 10 years now, some cars having twin turbos. There have been no blow-ups so far. Used oil analysis has shown normal or even sub-normal wear and tear. This is in Florida where the mean startup temperature is above 70F.

The main road just outside the neighborhood has a speed limit of 55 MPH for a short distance so high RPM is often required with an ice cold engine every time we leave the house.

I have recently loaded up on Motorcraft 5W-20 to put in the Lambo in a few months - the next (and long awaited) experiment.

aehaas

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Quest
methinks that OP is just splitting hairs...as if anything 5W20 or 5W30 is gonna make his vehicle car-boom!

Well big deal! I lived in the prairies before with -36C windchills and no block heater (public parking), I still crank my then 10W30 filled suzuki 3cyl engine and start it up to go to school (and back). that was an 86 M/T that the 75W90 M/T oil would be so thick that I had to carefully nurse(engage) it in order to avoid stalling my engine. Did the engine goes car-boom? nope? did the engine last as long as it should?! yeah! After I graduated in 97 (still runs strong, pass local emissions and no oil burning, etc.) I sold it to my roommate and was good until he flipped it on the highway in 2002...

Funny how internet is now so polarised: on 1 hand: the "thick" guys insisted that anything 5W20 or lower will cause the engine to grind to a halt; then the "thin" guys come along and try to talk themselves into using 0W20 (just wait til 16 weight came into NA market from Japan).

Wonder what's on the fad-o-meter next?

*laughs*

Q.


Spot on!

I love it when guys from US start suggesting all sorts of oils for guys living in Canada because we apparently have "extreme cold" conditions, while many parts of US are as cold or colder and telling us how we need as much cold start protection as possible.

Meanwhile the average Joe Blow uses whatever bulk dino is available at their oil change place, has no trouble starting the car, even when not plugged in, and our cars can last as long as cars in southern states. Rust is what determines how long the car will live up here, just like in many states, not oil choice.



Rust is an issue in the east,not here in the west. I routinely see cars from the late 70's and early 80's as folks daily drivers. Heck I considered buying a 83 cutlass a few weeks ago as a project however my yard already has enough mustang projects to last me a lifetime.
Anyways here its not rust,its poor maintenance and because of this poor maintenance the tipping point is reached and the car is scrapped.
The west uses little to no salt. Just sand and gravel. We don't have the warming trends in the winter that the eastern provinces experience so our roads are never slushy therefore no need for salt

 

[victorkoga]

No need to poke the bear here. Use the recommended 5w-20 and a hyundai filter if your doing your own services and keep the receipts.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

For example TGMO 0W-20 has a 216 VI but a typical dino 5W-20 like PYB 150. That translates into TGMO being over 30% lighter on start-up at 72F and over 50% lighter at 32F. And yes that's a big enough difference to notice and practically everyone who has actually tried an ultra high VI oil has noticed the difference.


You are correct and I am not trying to dispute that. My question, that I repeat in most of these type threads, is: How does that translate into engine life? How many more mile are we to expect from an engine? How does this 50% lighter at 32F translate into longer lasting engine?
The OP seemed to be concerned that 5wXX oils don't provide adequate protection, hence he started this thread. Now where would he get such an idea if it wasn't for all the thin oil threads talking about maximizing protection, start up wear and how it is all so bad that we should do everything we can to minimize it, totally forgetting that perhaps manufacturers already factored in start up wear protection in whatever oil they specified.
Coincidently we recently had some oil consumption threads in the Gen III Prius where 0w20 oil is specified, but no such concerns were posted for gen I and II where 5w30 oil was specified.
I'm starting to think that the hot protection margins are being cut down so severely in order to maximize fuel economy, that we will be seeing more oil consumption problems in relatively low mileage cars. I hope I'm wrong though.

I agree, driven conservatively, I wouldn't expect any significant increase in engine life running a 5W-20 vs a high VI 0W-20.
The single biggest factor that affects engine life is how the vehicle is driven and maintained. If on routinely rev's the snot out of a stone cold engine, then yes I think you improve your shortened engine life running a high VI oil but for the average cautious driver I don't think it's a big deal.

Regarding a reduction in protection margins in the specifying of a 20wt oil vs a 30wt, that's simply not the case for a whole slew of reasons that have been discussed here ad nauseum.
Probably the best example of this which I have sited many times is the 5W-20 oil spec'd for the 400+ hp Mustang. Does Ford specify a heavier oil for track use? No. Is there any benefit in using a heavier oil at the track in this car? No.
The reason is that engine management safety system will kick in to prevent the engine oil from getting too hot. What does Ford recommend if this happens too often; installing the optional oil cooler.
All modern vehicles now have these safety systems in place now so that there is no lubrication benefit to running anything heavier than the lightest oil specified.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: AEHaas
I have used 0W-20 grade oils in 500-600-700 BHP sports cars for around 10 years now, some cars having twin turbos. There have been no blow-ups so far. Used oil analysis has shown normal or even sub-normal wear and tear. This is in Florida where the mean startup temperature is above 70F.

The main road just outside the neighborhood has a speed limit of 55 MPH for a short distance so high RPM is often required with an ice cold engine every time we leave the house.

I have recently loaded up on Motorcraft 5W-20 to put in the Lambo in a few months - the next (and long awaited) experiment.
aehaas

Ali I'm looking forward to that experiment.

The Motorcraft 5W-20 is a very different oil than RLI 0W-20.
A lower VI but most importantly a significantly lower HTHSV.
I suspect your hot oil pressure will be noticeably lower.
For fun before draining out the RLI, why don't you make note of your OP at various rpms at specific regular oil temp's from 70F on start-up up to the normal maximum (200F?).
Then repeat the exact same OP and OT measurements once the Motorcraft 5W-20 is installed and report back.

I for one would be very interested in the results.

 

[pscholte]

Heh heh heh, the ol' Big Ranger would like to tell ye young Canuck and Yanko whipper snappers a thing or two; why I used ter live in the U-Conn and I once started a car at -154 on 60 wt

. Never a whimper or stutter or bang...what's that Nadine? The car DID blow up...oh...well there weren't no whimper or stutter...

 

[crazyoildude]

use what the cap says it works well and if it does not Hyundai will have to fix it for 10 years 100,000 miles if you have the proper maintenance records and if you dont have that a good Lawyer will do real well

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Salv, it's good to here the voice of practical experience in dealing with warranty issues. There is way too much unnecessary hand wringing concerning oil choice and whether it could void a warranty on BITOG.
If you maintain your car properly the oil you use within reason should be non issue, particularly choosing to use a 0W-20 synthetic where a 5W-20 dino is specified.


As someone who has worked dealer service and also as someone who has been a warranty customer with a blown engine I can assure you that using the correct grade and rated oil matters. It is checked when engine damage occurs under warranty. What amazes me are those who think it is hand wringing to be smart and just follow the mfg's info in the owner's manual until warranty is out.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Salv, it's good to here the voice of practical experience in dealing with warranty issues. There is way too much unnecessary hand wringing concerning oil choice and whether it could void a warranty on BITOG.
If you maintain your car properly the oil you use within reason should be non issue, particularly choosing to use a 0W-20 synthetic where a 5W-20 dino is specified.


As someone who has worked dealer service and also as someone who has been a warranty customer with a blown engine I can assure you that using the correct grade and rated oil matters. It is checked when engine damage occurs under warranty. What amazes me are those who think it is hand wringing to be smart and just follow the mfg's info in the owner's manual until warranty is out.

And do you know of just one warranty claim that has ever been denied because a 0W-20 was used where a 5W-20 was specified or any manufacturer?
No, and I haven't either.
Fretting about something that has never happened isn't being smart. Choosing to use a 0W-20 in a cold winter climate even though the manufacturer won't officially approve it is being smart.

 

[pscholte]

I have a great fondness for freedom of choice in this matter; however I totally agree with NHHEMI; why fret over it and run a risk? Just because Caterham claims no one knows of a denied claim does NOT mean it hasn't happened... unless he has reviewed every warranty claim ever submitted...and I would counter show me an engine that has suffered noticably increased wear or would not start in cold weather because it received 5W-20 instead of 0W-20. Why fight the manufacturers recommendations? It makes NO sense to me.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: pscholte
Just because Caterham claims no one knows of a denied claim does NOT mean it hasn't happened...

Well for you worry warts there is an easy solution, just run M1 AFE 0W-20. It is targeted at 5W-20 applications and Mobil states it will not void any manufacturers warranty.