I agree they are trustworthy, but you can not dispute the fact that it is all based on trust.
No actual controlled test has been done. I am confident they would pass the most stringent approvals, but that confidence is based trust.
HPL Oil Concerns
- Thread starter TomYoung
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No actual controlled test has been done. I am confident they would pass the most stringent approvals, but that confidence is based trust.
In an Accord and Camry, Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra Platinum, but one or two OCI's with Mobil 1. Pennzoil LX and BMW's brand once or twice in my B48 engines.
By the way, learning that HPL had to turn off fans prior to adding ingredients to a vat because the fan would disturb the weighing procedure is one of those details that stands out as being exceedingly fastidious in a procedure that most people wouldn't think requires such a level of precision.
Admittedly, I now use HPL because I trust them, just like I trusted Pennzoil and Mobil 1. All fine products, even if my trust is based on different criteria (although I was always a bit concerned about the dark particulate matter in the Pennzoil bottles...always made sure to shake them up a bit before pouring it in.)
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In my experience, there is often an inverse relationship between engineering skill and marketing skill for individuals.
If a smaller company focuses its budget on engineering, this can be the result, and that’s ok.
If a smaller company focuses its budget on engineering, this can be the result, and that’s ok.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
That's not from the website I linked you to Tom, which I suspected earlier in the thread, and why I linked the site, twice.
That being said, that's still not what you claim in the OP. A bit of bad grammar on a site (that isn't the HPL that's on this board) really shouldn't be grounds to totally dismiss the technical capability of a company. We've found numerous errors in Shell's datasheets, and on the Mobil website in the past, does that make these companies incompetent?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Most of these observations aren't about the site sponsor, as the site being critiqued isn't theirs. I get that you are clearly chomping at the bit, looking for anything you possibly can to come at them, seemingly disliking them for no reason other than their apparent popularity on here, but maybe hold off on busting that nut quite yet, nobody likes a guy that can't ride it out.
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MolaKule
Staff member
If you are questioning the "are" I am not so sure this was improperly stated: batch--a quantity or consignment of goods produced at one time.
And you clearly let your “love and affinity” for HPL cloud your judgement.
I’ve never once said anything negative about HPL in any thread. I’ve agreed with others about it not being an oil for everyone.
If it made sense for me to use their oils I certainly would. As I said before, if they were to come out with a CVT oil I would buy a case of it. Until then, I will stick with Amsoil CVT.
I think maybe you busted prematurely. Makes my statement about anything remotely negative about them and everyone coming to their defense a little more plausible eh? Prime example above.
Please show me where I had said a single negative thing about HPL anywhere. The only negative I see is me not being able to use their oils
He didn’t dismiss their technical capacity. He is actually praising them in the OP. Again, it “appears” you are letting your affinity, like, love, …whatever word you wish to insert here cloud your judgement just because he made a comment that you automatically take as an insult to HPL
Hmmm. What about Redline? They’ve been around, don’t have mfg approvals, I haven’t seen any articles relating to engine failures especially within the racing community. I only use redline ATF and Gear lubes, never a failure. Amsoil I’ve never cared for bc 1, I feel like they’re a marketing gimmick especially if you call and ask particular questions regarding base stocks. Calll redline tech support will talk to you about specifics.
As far as HPL, I’ve never used any of their products. I have to agree with packaging, miss spellings is bad for business. Kinda like when you go to a restaurant if the bathrooms are dirty, what does the kitchen look like kind of same principal if you have misspellings on your product information are you confident to make the product in which you sell? It’s really a big deal now. As far as packaging goes for some odd reason. You notice when you buy a new iPhone or an android phone always comes in a real nice box real thick cardboard people seem to care about that stuff myself. I save all my boxes just so when I go to sell it, I can put the phone back in the box that it came from and the new buyer to them is almost like getting a new phone because it has a box
As far as HPL, I’ve never used any of their products. I have to agree with packaging, miss spellings is bad for business. Kinda like when you go to a restaurant if the bathrooms are dirty, what does the kitchen look like kind of same principal if you have misspellings on your product information are you confident to make the product in which you sell? It’s really a big deal now. As far as packaging goes for some odd reason. You notice when you buy a new iPhone or an android phone always comes in a real nice box real thick cardboard people seem to care about that stuff myself. I save all my boxes just so when I go to sell it, I can put the phone back in the box that it came from and the new buyer to them is almost like getting a new phone because it has a box
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If I remember my ancient SAT prep, it’s probably more correct to say “is” because, though a batch may contain many things, it in itself is a singular entity.
We say “one dozen,” “a score,” “a handful,” etc.
dnewton3
Staff member
What you say is true, but only to you and those like you. (Not meant to be a taunt; stick with me here and I'll explain. I'm not trying to call you out or otherwise yank your chain.)
If you've not personally been to the HPL facility, taken the tour, met their lab personnel, seen the lab equipment, talked with their managers, seen first hand the commitment to cleanliness ...
Then I'd agree, you'd have to take it on the word of others. You have to "trust" other peoples anecdotal reports and observations.
How is that any different than trusting any of the major oil blenders? How is that any different than trusting the API licensees? I mean ... have you personally gone to any API test sites and watched Mobil1 or a PZ product be certified? Have you looked at the calibration log books of the API lab to see the ISO process validations? Do you check the API EOLCS site each and every time before you bought some oil to make sure that product you seek is still current? Have you been to a Mobil blending facility and seen the cleaning procedures they use to purge the tanks? Have you inspected the bulk containers for contamination prior to filling like HPL does each and every time?
The API does not exist to serve the industry benevolently; they're a business. They charge money to test products. Large multinational companies have plenty of money for the expensive testing. Smaller companies often do not. Even Valvoline and Amsoil don't seek licenses for all their products. Why? I have no idea. Smaller companies such as HPL don't seek API certs for several reasons; cost and applicability being two. People who use the HPL products do "trust" them; many of us because we've been to their facility and understand that an API cert won't improve their product, and may in fact compromise it if it were tailored to meet the API spec. To meet some of the API specs, HPL would essentially have to "dumb down" their lubes; something they're not interested in doing to get a license that means zilch to their niche customer base.
My point is that you "trust" the systems you've been conditioned to accept, yet you've probably not ever been to Mobil or API, right? How is that any different than not being to HPL and trusting them? I understand it's hard to comprehend why HPL costs so much; that is, until you tour their facility and speak with their staff. If you've never been there, it seems like a fairy tale. I understand that some anecdotal UOAs and testimony seems a bit thin, but is that really any different than what your actual experience is with any major brand and the API? You "trust" them based on their claims and certifications, though you've never been to those facilities I suspect. Your faith in them is based not on direct observation, right? You trust the major brands because of the API license, but you've never personally validated the API system, right? Why do you trust the API if you've never personally been there to see their equipment and talk with their personnel?
HPL most certainly conducts plenty of inside testing, and also engages outside 3rd party testing, using ISO accredited processes and equipment. (Just like any other quality lab such as API, SWRI, etc). Some of the HPL tests are typical industry standards such as vis, FP, etc. Other tests are unique to their specific goals and won't align well with typical API license criteria. Some typical tests such as Noack are not done because other less prominent tests actually better quantify the base stocks they use. Again - if you ever toured their facility, you'd be aware of these things. The HPL lab is every bit as good as any other facility in their field. It is accurate to say that no API license exists for the HPL products; I explained that above. It is, however, INACCURATE to say that "no actual controlled test has been done."; that's just a statement based on your ignorance of their operations. HPL does both in-house and 3rd party testing on their products; those tests are specific to the goals they set which often are not the same as mass-market products.Drew7a said:
Again, I'm not trying to pick on you as an individual; if it comes off that way then I apologize right here and now. But some of your doubts seem to be based on incomplete or inaccurate understanding of HPL quality and development processes.
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Essentially, they could use a hipster.
In a very general reference, tear downs and measurements are performed on engines that failed. Not even the majors do tear downs with any sort of regularity due to the cost and time involved.
In my personal opinion, this is of limited value because: HPL is intended to survive in the toughest of environments (@RDY4WAR what was that Pro Stock Motorcycle anecdote you shared?) which means heads-up drag racing. Here, the oil has to deal with extremely varied mechanical conditions and tuning conditions… the oil will not have a picture-perfect test bed.
You’ll notice that there are many top-level racing teams that use HPL… Erica Enders, Richard Petty, and several others depend on HPL and have put up many wins & championships. At this level, with millions of $ on the line, these teams are not going to risk anything over $15/qt oil if it is a liability. IMO real-world testing like this is infinitely more valuable than a bench test in these cases.
As someone noted before, conditioning plays a part, and if you allow all of your past conditioning to influence a product that’s not on the same lower tier as what your preconceptions are founded upon, well then the limitation can be your mind and not the new product.
In the end, we’ve seen it every single day here even with all of the testing and approvals that you’re knocking HPL for not having… a product (let’s use SuperTech for this example) carries all of the same certifications as say Ravenol, but yet there’s always that one person who has some story about how it failed in their engine, and voila… trust evaporates.
HPL doesn’t spend money on advertising. All they’ve got is their name based on real-world results.
Thank you.
Now may I ask the all important question of what driving conditions ?
I’ll say this… If HPL is good enough for Daddy Dave from Street Outlaws… Then it’s good enough for me… 
In all seriousness though HPL makes amazing oils that are thoroughly tested and proven to work exceptionally well.
Only my opinion but I believe HPL oils are best applied for either 1) extreme long oil change intervals with regular oil filter changes throughout and UOAs done to verify oils still good throughout that extreme long run.
2) Extreme high, high performance street racing and or track racing. Motors which have nitrous added, turbo boosted and or using a pro charger, big blower to past maximum power for that size motor.
If you aren’t do not do either of the above in my opinion… There’s zero need for you to use HPL.
I will add 3) Unless you just want to run it because you respect and like HPL and you really trust and like the guys running HPL.
Nothing wrong with that.
I have a ton of respect for the people who run and operate HPL. They are world class in my opinion.
In all seriousness though HPL makes amazing oils that are thoroughly tested and proven to work exceptionally well.
Only my opinion but I believe HPL oils are best applied for either 1) extreme long oil change intervals with regular oil filter changes throughout and UOAs done to verify oils still good throughout that extreme long run.
2) Extreme high, high performance street racing and or track racing. Motors which have nitrous added, turbo boosted and or using a pro charger, big blower to past maximum power for that size motor.
If you aren’t do not do either of the above in my opinion… There’s zero need for you to use HPL.
I will add 3) Unless you just want to run it because you respect and like HPL and you really trust and like the guys running HPL.
Nothing wrong with that.
I have a ton of respect for the people who run and operate HPL. They are world class in my opinion.
Great point OVERKILL …
I think Ray Charles had proof read Shells and Mobil’s data sheets.
Heck Cam2 had 0w-16 oil with a HTHS of like 4.82…
I tell everybody that Cam2 0w-16 is a darn stout stout 0w-16
Actually we do have a lot of engine tear down experience with our presence throughout the racing world. We have seen engine life double and in some cases triple over prior products. Is it fair to say you would see the same thing in passenger car engines? No. Racing engines especially very professional ones will run at much greater speeds at a much greater BMEP. From a durability stand point your performance in a high BMEP engine is pretty valuable. Especially if we then apply what we learn in racing to street applications.
What you won’t be seeing in racing engines will be the cleanliness of the oil. However it is common knowledge within the industry which oils clean and those that do not. We do have the luxury of having a super scientist-molecule builder on staff. The materials we use are available to any blender. There is no “magic”. The materials we use are expensive. Very few people would put what we do in the oil and sell it for what we do. I will never die rich by virtue of the profit we make on engine oil. It may appear that way but until you build it and cost it you would not know.
We use our lab to identify synergistic properties between various chemistries, validate them via our professional race teams and then apply what to validated in our finished products.
I would appreciate someone sharing any errors on hplubricants.com and we will fix them. We don’t have a marketing department. We chose a path that has been accurately described in this thread.
I too would like to have a custom bottle. The molds and bottle runs are pretty costly and we really don’t sell the volume to justify multiple semi loads of bottles.
We are very happy to have the relationships we do with team in NASCAR, NHRA, World of Outlaws, Street outlaws etc. Our advertising budget equals our marketing budget. Therefore it is important to note that we don’t write check one to these teams. We have our relationships only because what we we deliver in performance to these teams. It was nice to have someone from Richard Petty’s team speak at our first open house and the Miss Geico people. And this year we were able to meet the people at Elite Motorsports (Erica Enders). Those people who attended were able to hear directly from these people the advantages they have seen.
When chances come up where we can improve packing at an affordable cost I would do it. I don’t see that happening soon.
Our market share will probably never be beyond a needle in a haystack in our field. Our products are definitely not for everyone. But for people that are looking for a top level product…. they will likely become friends. I can tell you directly we appreciate every one of them.
David
PS it is 11:35 at night. I’m at a race track, I did not check this message for spelling.
What you won’t be seeing in racing engines will be the cleanliness of the oil. However it is common knowledge within the industry which oils clean and those that do not. We do have the luxury of having a super scientist-molecule builder on staff. The materials we use are available to any blender. There is no “magic”. The materials we use are expensive. Very few people would put what we do in the oil and sell it for what we do. I will never die rich by virtue of the profit we make on engine oil. It may appear that way but until you build it and cost it you would not know.
We use our lab to identify synergistic properties between various chemistries, validate them via our professional race teams and then apply what to validated in our finished products.
I would appreciate someone sharing any errors on hplubricants.com and we will fix them. We don’t have a marketing department. We chose a path that has been accurately described in this thread.
I too would like to have a custom bottle. The molds and bottle runs are pretty costly and we really don’t sell the volume to justify multiple semi loads of bottles.
We are very happy to have the relationships we do with team in NASCAR, NHRA, World of Outlaws, Street outlaws etc. Our advertising budget equals our marketing budget. Therefore it is important to note that we don’t write check one to these teams. We have our relationships only because what we we deliver in performance to these teams. It was nice to have someone from Richard Petty’s team speak at our first open house and the Miss Geico people. And this year we were able to meet the people at Elite Motorsports (Erica Enders). Those people who attended were able to hear directly from these people the advantages they have seen.
When chances come up where we can improve packing at an affordable cost I would do it. I don’t see that happening soon.
Our market share will probably never be beyond a needle in a haystack in our field. Our products are definitely not for everyone. But for people that are looking for a top level product…. they will likely become friends. I can tell you directly we appreciate every one of them.
David
PS it is 11:35 at night. I’m at a race track, I did not check this message for spelling.
Just figured this may be my only chance to use this properly and in the correct context:
Imho, if you don't have certifications on oil that people are looking for and can rely on, perhaps you can run the tests and advise whether they were passed? Don't need to apply for certs if they are too expensive. If it's an option.
E.g. if oil passed API SP test, just say test required for certification was passed.
E.g. if oil passed API SP test, just say test required for certification was passed.
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