How Many Here Are Turned Off By Electric Vehicles ?

[OppositeLocK]

As an automotive enthusiast, I don't find EVs exciting at all. People will say I'm wrong and the instant torque is addictive, and blah, blah, but I'll disagree. I prefer a package that provides more of a connection between the driver and the vehicle. EVs are basically smartphones with wheels and seating.

Push the pedal down and the computer and massive electronics do everything for you. Driving is slowly becoming like playing a video game that's not very fun. Might as well skip the whole EV phase and go to self driving electric cars.

Hearing one of those renowned gas engines work through its range as a skilled driver maneuvers it with surgical precision was a treat. Now cars sound like PCs with really bad coil whine.

It's a weird time to be an old time auto enthusiast. You're watching what you love slowly die before your eyes.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

Right now I drive a 2020 Audi A4 with a 150,000 mile extended warranty. I expect my next car will be a Tesla Model 3 or equivalent. A Tesla Model 3 is capable of 3.1 sec 0-60 and a top speed of 162 MPH. I cannot think of a single stock car from 1960 - 2010 that had that level of performance. Heck, I'm not sure any current IC vehicle is capable of that. If it is, it's one of those supercars that retail for north of $300,000.

Serious question. How often do you need to accelerate to 60 in 3.1 seconds, where accelerating to 60 in say 5 or 7 seconds wouldn't suffice?

It sure seems to me that the most important features are:
1. Reliability - EVs are not even close yet, very much infants
2. Range - that's a laugh. You are limited to 150-200 mile trips if you plan to return on the same trip without an extended stop. Probably hundreds of times in my life I've need to go further and return, same day, with minimal stopping. So an EV is useless.
3. Amazingly quick speed - In many decades of driving, not once has 2 seconds quicker helped me in any appreciable way.
4. Safety - EVs are spontaneously combusting, passengers are sitting on a chemical bomb that if punctured can erupt in flames, and self driving cars are hitting people. Just today, a headline of a Tesla self driving car causing an accident. No thanks. Oh, and gasoline is dangerous. No doubt.
5. EVs are not more environmentally friendly. It just shifts around the various harm to the environment from a gas pump to an electric outlet and from oil fields to strip mining heavy metals.
6. Affordability. EVs are not affordable to buy, own, or repair, nor will they last as long as ICE vehicles. Mark my words.

 

[OppositeLocK]

Right now I drive a 2020 Audi A4 with a 150,000 mile extended warranty. I expect my next car will be a Tesla Model 3 or equivalent. A Tesla Model 3 is capable of 3.1 sec 0-60 and a top speed of 162 MPH. I cannot think of a single stock car from 1960 - 2010 that had that level of performance. Heck, I'm not sure any current IC vehicle is capable of that. If it is, it's one of those supercars that retail for north of $300,000.

0-60 was and still is one of the dumbest metrics in the car world. It doesn't even have consistency in testing.

There is nothing about EVs that will ever have them be "drivers' cars" so it doesn't matter. Just like any average idiot can operate a smartphone, even the worst drivers are be able to be "fast" in an EV.

That being said, take that Model 3 against a dedicated track car and you'll quickly see what the difference is.

 

[OppositeLocK]

Serious question. How often do you need to accelerate to 60 in 3.1 seconds, where accelerating to 60 in say 5 or 7 seconds wouldn't suffice?

How else could one do that passive-aggressive beta pass and subsequent cut-off?

 

[CharlesInCharge]

I'll pit the Model 3 against one of my daily drivers in a cross country driving race, course of my choosing. Must follow all road laws and rules. No cheating, no battery replacement stations. Can only use facilities established on the route. Let's see who wins in the more important metrics of reliability and range. Speed, heh. Of no use. Quickness, again, no use. Range, refueling, and reliability will win every time.

My $5000 DD will DESTROY any commercially production Tesla today.

 

[OppositeLocK]

As with anything, there is no such thing as a free lunch. We've been searching for the answer to energy for almost all of humanity, but even solar panels have plenty of downsides.

However, burning fossil fuels to create electricity to charge a battery is crazy to me.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

As with anything, there is no such thing as a free lunch. We've been searching for the answer to energy for almost all of humanity, but even solar panels have plenty of downsides.

However, burning fossil fuels to create electricity to charge a battery is crazy to me.

Even crazier, the lies and propaganda behind it.

Crazier still? That people actually still believe these lies by the folks who have been caught lying and cooking books for decades. lol.

 

[vavavroom]

For now a plug-in hybrid makes the most sense to me. I have actually been looking at the RAV4 Prime.

 

[Accent Abuser]

I’m with you. Hybrids are much more practical.

Plug-in hybrids are the best of both worlds.

 

[Skippy722]

LOL. So pretty much anyone who lives in an apartment, condo, or townhouse without ability to charge is out. That's probably 50% of the population.

How about the huge percent (35%) that live and do things in very remote rural areas where there's long distances between towns, limited phone reception, very limited recharging stations, and being stranded is very very bad? If you have a gasoline car, you fill up the tank regularly. What do you do with an EV?

Power outages are indeed rare, but I've lived thru a half dozen or more that were very long, measured in 1-5 days. I prefer to be with a car even when the power is out. YMMV.

Many, many times in my life (hundreds) I've had to drive more than the maximum range of my gas tank, or what would be the range of an EV. Doesn't matter if it's full at the start, one must stop and refuel. I've driven probably hundreds of times starting with a full tank, and refueling at least one time during the trip. So if you have an EV, you're pretty much screwed. If you EV has a 400 mile range, cut that in half, and then to be safe deduct 10% again. Now your range going somewhere is ~150 miles, so you have enough energy to return. Not very far, that's about 2 hours out, and 2 hours back to be safe and not get stranded. I can drive confidently 10 hours, 20 hours, heck for days in any direction without worry of not being able to refuel.

And again…. Why must you *only* own an EV? Chicago currently has over 600 public chargers available, plus whatever private lots/garages have. Saw tons of Tesla’s just yesterday rolling around Chicago with Chicago parking stickers, so it doesn’t seem to be that big of a problem.

I specifically called out this group of people in my post saying they’re better served by ICEV or hybrids. “If you have a gasoline car, you fill up the tank regularly. What do you do with an EV?” You charge it… that’s what you do with it. Even in Wyoming, the least populous state, you’re always within ~100 miles of a public EV charger.

That’s great you’re comfortable driving 10, 20, or even days without worrying but once again…. Why must it be EV or nothing? Why can’t they co-exist?

Or to use some peoples favorite phrase when talking about daily driven pick up trucks on this forum… “just rent one (a ICEV/Hybrid) when you need it, why spend all that money on one if you’re not going to use its full capabilities most of the time?”

 

[fisher83]

I'd definitely consider buying one. It will probably be a few years before either of our vehicles need replacing but I'm excited to see what the future brings. They certainly won't work for everyone but that doesn't mean they won't work for anyone.

 

[billt460]

Nobody cares about electrifying heat.

they only focus on BEV using too much juice and figure electric heat makes sense in northern Alaska and Siberia

They will in Minneapolis in January, when they're trying to drive their electric cars on a 45 minute commute, when it's -20 F outside.

 

[billt460]

......... EVs are basically smartphones with wheels and seating. Hearing one of those renowned gas engines work through its range as a skilled driver maneuvers it with surgical precision was a treat. Now cars sound like PCs with really bad coil whine. It's a weird time to be an old time auto enthusiast. You're watching what you love slowly die before your eyes.

If you really want to see how "exciting" EV performance really is, try staying awake while watching a "Formula E" race. If not for the announcers, you wouldn't know if you had the sound muted or not. The most exciting part is watching the drivers running around, changing cars during a "pit stop", when the batteries go dead.

 

[mightymousetech]

Unless you live in a home that does not accommodate it, or you have an overnight power outage, or a nefarious neighbor who unplugs it, or a fire that burns your house down when your EV spontaneously combusts...

A lot more ICE cars burn to the ground while parked than electrics.

 

[Trav]

New battery tech and boom all that lithium mining etc is old news. Gas cars are full of mined materials, and driven by oil pumped from ancient deposits in the earth’s crust. Same monopolized mining for other materials. I know people from Ghana, suddenly the PRC is interested in them because of bauxite, gold, coffee and who knows what else. Before no one from PRC would set foot in Ghana.

It doesn't matter if its old new or not it is still a real concern. Sure gas cars use mined and liquid deposits the difference is we have enough of it right here to tell any country who is trying to monopolize it to go pound sand and drill or pump more.
The Chicoms are going to own most of the free world in one way or another before we know what hit us. Instead of banning ICE vehicles the free world should seriously consider banning Chicom hard goods.

 

[supton]

If I can hold off for a couple more years I suspect my next new car will be EV. I kinda like the thought, less upkeep, smoother acceleration (no shift shock). I don’t know what my job holds in store but I sure drive less now.

But I do think at the moment that hybrid is the “best” for the next say 10 years. Don’t think our grid is up to the extra load, and I don’t think our power sources are as green as they could be, really should be building nukes if we wanted to electrify the passenger car fleet (I think EV semi’s are just shy of a joke). A plug-in hybrid might be best a good portion of people, although that really depends on the person and their needs.

 

[bunnspecial]

I didn't say EVs or heat pumps were for everyone. Our climate is mild summer and winter. Heat pumps work great here year 'round.

We heat our house with a heat pump. It works well down to at least -10C ( +14 F). And it almost never gets as low as -10C here. A really cold night would be -5C. I keep rainwater in outdoor barrels all winter. The heat pump on our house has saved us a bucket of money.

I don't know how low the Tesla heat pump will work. But you're right, it will have to use resistive heating below some temperature and that would be much less energy efficient.

How much of your annual driving is actually below -10C? Mine is 0%.

My question was factual, not an opinion about how cold does the Tesla heat pump work(and in a bigger sense, this is part of my dislike of the brand-any question of this is seemed to be perceived by a lot of owners as a slight).

As for how much of my driving? Looking at 2021 as a whole, driving below 14ºF was probably about 4% of my miles this year. For roughly a month, it was nearly 100% of my driving. It's not all the time for me, but when it happened it certainly would be inconvenient to say the least.

Heat pump technology is great until it isn't, and you pay a big price(in terms of energy) when it isn't great. I'm not saying otherwise, and if I lived further south a heat pump on my house would make perfect sense. Actually for about 10 1/2 months out of the year here it would make sense, but from what I've seen the month and a half where it's not great offsets the other 10 1/2.

In an EV, I'd hate to suddenly find that I had a lot less range than I expected because the heat pump was too cold to work, and temperatures where it's that cold are where it's potentially most dangerous to be stuck in your car. At least in IC cars, heat is "free."

 

[zrxkawboy]

Lol, they will stop SELLING them in 2030. By the time you can't buy a used one most of us will be dead.

Right, for anyone in Britain shopping for a new car in 2030, there won't be any options but electric vehicles. Pretty simple, yes?

 

[billt460]

I lived in the Midwest for 38 years. And having GOOD HEAT in a vehicle in the Winter is not just a luxury. It's a necessity. Without a GOOD heating and defrosting system, windows ice up from condensation in no time. Not to mention you're going to freeze your ass off driving the dam thing. I really can't see how any EV is going to provide that. Heat pumps in houses blow luke warm air. Nothing like the HOT air a gas forced air system does. And when it gets below zero heat pumps are all but worthless.

EV's cannot have electric element heaters, simply because they require too many watts. Add in rear window defrosters, heated seats, rear view mirrors, and steering wheels, (all heated by elements, and all things that gas vehicles have in that price range), and the range they could travel wouldn't amount to squat. EV's are simply no good in freezing cold weather, and never will be. Because in an internal combustion engine, heat is a useful by product of it's normal operation. With EV's it has to be manufactured by battery power, one way or another.

 

[zrxkawboy]

Some time ago there were people against ICE. Horses are much better, just feed and groom them.

True...and you can still buy a horse today, if that is your preferred mode of transportation. That's all I ask: that governments don't legislate the ICE out of existence. Let people make the choice which to buy.