Our 14 year old, 253K mile Honda Element finally needed a repair

[slo town]

That is one of the best engines Honda made... On my 07 accord I had 386000 on it when I traded it in...Original water pump and alternator..NO engine issues at all or tranny...Just the usual paint. to do...

I fully expect our Element to make 400K without any difficulty. Even with a quarter million miles on it I'd drive it tomorrow morning from Cali to the East Coast without any worries.

Scott

 

[slo town]

and this was all done on Mobil 1 and a Fram oil filter not a overpriced mail order oil....

Ours has had a lifetime of Castrol. 5W-20 black bottle for the first 150K. I've run German Castrol 0W-30 for the last 100K. 5K OCIs the entire time, except for changes at 500, 1500, 3000 when new, then 5K ever since.

Scott

 

[slo town]

Sweet machine! The motor looks almost identical to the one in our 2009 Accord. Our 2009 has the 2.4 engine.

I think one thing the Element has over the Accord, even with the exact same motor and trans, is the huge engine bay. There is a lot more open space for air to be evacuated and heat soak to be minimized.

Scott

 

[slo town]

It was very popular with the senior crowd since it allowed you to get in and out easily. Same goes from some Scion xB owners, not your typical Scion owner but seat height was the best choice for many.

There was even a Dog Owners Package:

View attachment 229696

https://automobiles.honda.com/images/2010/element/downloads/elementdogfriendlyfactsheet.pdf

https://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/16/2010-honda-element-with-dog-friendly-package-review/

I remember that advert! When we bought our Element we had a 165 pound Great Dane named Harley. He was such a sweet boy, a gentle giant.

Scott

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I think one thing the Element has over the Accord, even with the exact same motor and trans, is the huge engine bay. There is a lot more open space for air to be evacuated and heat soak to be minimized.

Scott

Yes indeed + there can be nothing better than all that space for cooling as you say or when one needs to do some wrench turning in that space. LoL I remember with great fondness one of my early GMC trucks with a great little straight-six engine that had so much room I one day found myself sitting in the engine bay with room to spare while swapping out a water pump!

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I remember that advert! When we bought our Element we had a 165 pound Great Dane named Harley. He was such a sweet boy, a gentle giant.

Scott

They were quite popular with the younger crowd in my area. I still see a couple of them in my town and they too still look very well maintained and holding up nicely.

 

[hrv]

Ours has had a lifetime of Castrol. 5W-20 black bottle for the first 150K. I've run German Castrol 0W-30 for the last 100K. 5K OCIs the entire time, except for changes at 500, 1500, 3000 when new, then 5K ever since.

Scott

YUP off the shelf oil is just fine...

 

[slo town]

Yes indeed + there can be nothing better than all that space for cooling as you say or when one needs to do some wrench turning in that space. LoL I remember with great fondness one of my early GMC trucks with a great little straight-six engine that had so much room I one day found myself sitting in the engine bay with room to spare while swapping out a water pump!

On the other extreme - my V12 E-Type Jag.... Back in the '90s my wife Sue helped me pull the engine and trans in one gigantic 800 or 900 pound lump. Scary, and such a PITA to work on.

Scott

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

On the other extreme - my V12 E-Type Jag.... Back in the '90s my wife Sue helped me pull the engine and trans in one gigantic 800 or 900 pound lump. Scary, and such a PITA to work on.

Scott

Oh yeah. As easy as some things were there have been lots of things like that its better to try never to repeat! Well, along with getting old and having physical limitations that lots of us will eventually encounter , manufacturers today seem hell bent on using designs to limit and almost completely stop the home mechanics from being able to do much anymore. The big money for dealers is customer service / shop vi$it$!

 

[slo town]

For grins I did a compression test on the 'ole Element this morning. Warm engine. Specs from the factory service manual for new engine is 185 psi; for "serviceable engines" no more than 28 psi difference from high to low, and no less than 135 psi. For our Element #1 175, #2 172, #3 178, #4 185. I think the results are remarkable given the engine had 254,096 miles on it when I tested it this morning. Hail the mighty K24!!!

FWIW,

Scott

 

[wemay]

Looks 'sharp'

 

[DirectRejection]

Ladies and Gentlemen:

The title says it all - after 14 years and 253K miles our beloved Honda Element finally needed some repairs. Aside from one brake job, 4 or 5 sets of tires, respectful treatment, and years of meticulous maintenance, this was literally the first time something went wrong with it. What a loyal and trustworthy servant it has been!

While waiting in line at a fast food place, needing some calories during a busy day, I noticed the temp gauge starting to creep up. Normally the gauge never moves from it's normal position, regardless of whether it's 105 or 30 degrees outside, idling in traffic or speeding along at 80 mph. The gauge plays like it's highly buffered.

I noticed the gauge moving from it's normal position, say, 3/8ths to a 5/8ths. The Element has a single serpentine belt so I checked to see if the power steering was still working, which it was, verifying the belt hadn't broken. I shut it off and "started and stopped" my way to nourishment, not wanting it to get any hotter.

Zooming out of the fast food place I noticed that as soon as I got moving the temp gauge dropped to its normal level. That made me suspect the electric cooling fans, which the Element has two. One is called the "AC fan", the other the "radiator fan".

After arriving home I slammed down my food to correct my increasingly hangry mood, which had nothing to do with the Element's woes.

Freshly fueled, I popped the hood and noticed neither fan was working. I swapped fuses and relays with known good ones, hoping for a quick and easy fix. No go. I checked Youtube University, watching a video that says if you turn on the AC to Max, both fans should run. I did that and neither fan worked, even with the engine at full operating temperature on a pleasant 75 degree California afternoon.

Before I go any further on this, one thing I'd noticed over the last year or two was that at times the AC didn't blow as cold as it used to. It seemed to be more an issue during stop and go driving, but once I got moving again the AC seemed to blow fully cold. Given the age and mileage of the 'ole Element, I chalked it up to needing a recharge, but never got to it because the AC worked well enough overall to not bother. This behavior turned out to be a good clue.

As per the instructions in my factory service manuals, I hot-wired each fan directly to the battery, Neither one worked. With both bad it made me realize the AC fan must have failed sometime earlier, but with the radiator fan still working the vehicle never overheated. The failure of the AC fan explained why the AC blew less cold in stop and go traffic. At any rate, the failure of both fans added a certain degree of confusion during my diagnostic process.

I'm an OEM parts guy, but Honda wanted $450 plus EACH, just for electric motors. That price didn't include the shrouds or fan blades. I had serious doubts that those by now well roasted plastic fans blades blades would come off the motors without them breaking.

I searched further for parts, some online Honda dealers selling the motors for under $300. The local dealer where I originally bought the vehicle wouldn't price match so I tried RockAuto for the first time in my life. They had some Continental/VDO (made in Thailand) fans, fully assembled, including shrouds and blades, 100% ready to bolt in. $383 delivered. My RockAuto package arrived two days later, beautifully packaged. Hearing all the RockAuto horror stories, I was pleasantly surprised.

R&R'ing the fans was a PITA. It wasn't a difficult job, per se, but major portions of the underhood wiring had to be removed from various structural pieces, and to Honda's credit that wiring was attached at 16 or 18 points with hard to reach plastic clips. Getting the wiring detached and out of the way was the most complicated part of the job. At several points I was mumbling some really bad words under my breath.

After getting the fans out I decided to throw the Element a bone. With everything right there I decided to reward its remarkable service with a brand new OEM radiator, even though the old one was in perfect condition because of my every 3 year coolant changes. I got new OEM hoses and clamps, plus OEM coolant from my non-discounting local dealer - to the tune of $700 plus. All in, I was in this job for just under $1,100.

Reassembly was fairly easy, but my inability to refasten some of the hard to reach plastic clips required the use of zips ties instead. No big deal. At any rate, I performed the repairs with all the OCD attention to detail and quality I do with the other cars on our fleet. Just because it was 14 years old with 253K miles on it was no reason to do a less than "perfect" job.

New fans in and fully operational, the AC blows as cold as an industrial meat locker, even while idling the driveway. No recharge required - Yay! - the issue being the failure of the AC fan sometime earlier, before the radiator fan eventually failed.

A few pics for your viewing pleasure. The engine and body pictures were taken after job completion. Yes, I take that good of care of the thing!

Scott

View attachment 224329View attachment 224330View attachment 224331View attachment 224332

Great post !!
Element is famous for being beastly.
Confirmed.

 

[faltic]

Ladies and Gentlemen:

The title says it all - after 14 years and 253K miles our beloved Honda Element finally needed some repairs. Aside from one brake job, 4 or 5 sets of tires, respectful treatment, and years of meticulous maintenance, this was literally the first time something went wrong with it. What a loyal and trustworthy servant it has been!

While waiting in line at a fast food place, needing some calories during a busy day, I noticed the temp gauge starting to creep up. Normally the gauge never moves from it's normal position, regardless of whether it's 105 or 30 degrees outside, idling in traffic or speeding along at 80 mph. The gauge plays like it's highly buffered.

I noticed the gauge moving from it's normal position, say, 3/8ths to a 5/8ths. The Element has a single serpentine belt so I checked to see if the power steering was still working, which it was, verifying the belt hadn't broken. I shut it off and "started and stopped" my way to nourishment, not wanting it to get any hotter.

Zooming out of the fast food place I noticed that as soon as I got moving the temp gauge dropped to its normal level. That made me suspect the electric cooling fans, which the Element has two. One is called the "AC fan", the other the "radiator fan".

After arriving home I slammed down my food to correct my increasingly hangry mood, which had nothing to do with the Element's woes.

Freshly fueled, I popped the hood and noticed neither fan was working. I swapped fuses and relays with known good ones, hoping for a quick and easy fix. No go. I checked Youtube University, watching a video that says if you turn on the AC to Max, both fans should run. I did that and neither fan worked, even with the engine at full operating temperature on a pleasant 75 degree California afternoon.

Before I go any further on this, one thing I'd noticed over the last year or two was that at times the AC didn't blow as cold as it used to. It seemed to be more an issue during stop and go driving, but once I got moving again the AC seemed to blow fully cold. Given the age and mileage of the 'ole Element, I chalked it up to needing a recharge, but never got to it because the AC worked well enough overall to not bother. This behavior turned out to be a good clue.

As per the instructions in my factory service manuals, I hot-wired each fan directly to the battery, Neither one worked. With both bad it made me realize the AC fan must have failed sometime earlier, but with the radiator fan still working the vehicle never overheated. The failure of the AC fan explained why the AC blew less cold in stop and go traffic. At any rate, the failure of both fans added a certain degree of confusion during my diagnostic process.

I'm an OEM parts guy, but Honda wanted $450 plus EACH, just for electric motors. That price didn't include the shrouds or fan blades. I had serious doubts that those by now well roasted plastic fans blades blades would come off the motors without them breaking.

I searched further for parts, some online Honda dealers selling the motors for under $300. The local dealer where I originally bought the vehicle wouldn't price match so I tried RockAuto for the first time in my life. They had some Continental/VDO (made in Thailand) fans, fully assembled, including shrouds and blades, 100% ready to bolt in. $383 delivered. My RockAuto package arrived two days later, beautifully packaged. Hearing all the RockAuto horror stories, I was pleasantly surprised.

R&R'ing the fans was a PITA. It wasn't a difficult job, per se, but major portions of the underhood wiring had to be removed from various structural pieces, and to Honda's credit that wiring was attached at 16 or 18 points with hard to reach plastic clips. Getting the wiring detached and out of the way was the most complicated part of the job. At several points I was mumbling some really bad words under my breath.

After getting the fans out I decided to throw the Element a bone. With everything right there I decided to reward its remarkable service with a brand new OEM radiator, even though the old one was in perfect condition because of my every 3 year coolant changes. I got new OEM hoses and clamps, plus OEM coolant from my non-discounting local dealer - to the tune of $700 plus. All in, I was in this job for just under $1,100.

Reassembly was fairly easy, but my inability to refasten some of the hard to reach plastic clips required the use of zips ties instead. No big deal. At any rate, I performed the repairs with all the OCD attention to detail and quality I do with the other cars on our fleet. Just because it was 14 years old with 253K miles on it was no reason to do a less than "perfect" job.

New fans in and fully operational, the AC blows as cold as an industrial meat locker, even while idling the driveway. No recharge required - Yay! - the issue being the failure of the AC fan sometime earlier, before the radiator fan eventually failed.

A few pics for your viewing pleasure. The engine and body pictures were taken after job completion. Yes, I take that good of care of the thing!

Scott

View attachment 224329View attachment 224330View attachment 224331View attachment 224332

Your lucky I had to replace 3 of these in 13 years and 214k miles. Watch out for the VVT control valve on the back of the head above the oil filter leak and the crank seal on the timing cover leak. I loved that car though.

 

[BrendanC]

For grins I did a compression test on the 'ole Element this morning. Warm engine. Specs from the factory service manual for new engine is 185 psi; for "serviceable engines" no more than 28 psi difference from high to low, and no less than 135 psi. For our Element #1 175, #2 172, #3 178, #4 185. I think the results are remarkable given the engine had 254,096 miles on it when I tested it this morning. Hail the mighty K24!!!

FWIW,

Scott

incredible results. i’m scared to do a compression test on the 05 accord in my sig. car fax shows the car had 375k on it in 2023 prior to my purchase. PO swapped a gauge cluster in.

 

[slo town]

incredible results. i’m scared to do a compression test on the 05 accord in my sig. car fax shows the car had 375k on it in 2023 prior to my purchase. PO swapped a gauge cluster in.

You might be surprised.

Scott

 

[JHZR2]

At that age, it would be foolish to reassemble with the original radiator.
Good call with replacing it all in one shot.

Apparently my 40yo plastic cap radiators didn’t get the memo.

We can assume the OEM radiator is equivalent quality, and hopefully that’s the case… but it isn’t a guarantee.

 

[Oillover]

Apparently my 40yo plastic cap radiators didn’t get the memo.

We can assume the OEM radiator is equivalent quality, and hopefully that’s the case… but it isn’t a guarantee.

Yes, and if OP were to button up everything with the old rad, it may decide to start leaking.

In life, there's very few guarantees.

 

[slo town]

Looks 'sharp'

After 14 years and 254K miles it's looking happy and cute after its morning bath this morning. Sad thing is, it no longer gets garage parking and has been sitting outside for the last 4 years. Fortunately there's a lot of shade where I park it, plus I wash it every week and wipe it down afterwards with Griot's 3-in-1 Ceramic spray. Biggest issue is bird poop, but I try to wipe that off as soon as I see it.

Scott

 

[wemay]

It looks GREAT!

 

[Sam_Julier]

I man after my heart.