How Many Here Are Turned Off By Electric Vehicles ?

[UncleDave]

Actually it is not. Gas can be stored. Gas can be transported in appropriate containers. I don’t see anyone hauling generator and fuel for one in Tesla.

Sure but how many people actually store enough of it and store it properly?

Remember most EVs get fully charged every night.
Even though you might have less overall range when full the fact that it is full means a lot when everything just stops for miles around you.

few to none are hauling a genset with them.

Power outages in california often have no warning like a hurricane or something you can see coming miles away.

 

[UncleDave]

Honest questions, where do the materials to make big batteries come from? What materials are in batteries? Are they toxic? How long does a car battery last, how much do they cost to replace, and how are the disposed of? What is the live span of a EV car, versus a traditional ICE?

I think if you honestly appraise the answers to these questions, you will find that traditional simple ICE vehicles even with poor MPGs are more environmentally friendly because they last 40 years and are cost effective to repair and keep on the roads.

Free your mind.

same place the platinum comes from for millions of catalytic converters,

Same questions, but few ask that....why is that?

 

[Astro14]

You still cannot get gas when everyone is filling up right before the hurricane hit. Heck you cannot even get toilet paper last year when everyone suddenly started working from home.

Let's say you can get gas at $7 a gallon, can you even get out of the zone when everyone is driving on the road at the same time? Where are you going to go when every single hotel room is already booked?

Anyways, in 2021 if you are buying an EV most likely you have 1 EV and 1 gas car, so in evacuation you leave your EV behind and evacuate with a gas car, it is that simple.

Since you don’t live in hurricane country, your opinion on what’s available and when, is based on speculation and supposition, not experience.

I’ve never had a problem filling up the cars and the spare gas cans with an impending storm.

Not once.

Plywood and sand bags are another matter…

But I keep spare sand bags on hand, ordered early in the season, and getting sand isn’t really a problem where I live.

 

[SeaJay]

NG is piped to my place and the whole house genset runs on it.

the car is stationary every night anyway, you dont drive your car while you are sleeping either.

Where is your car 50% of its life? - in your driveway/ garage.

It doenst take 1 minute to fill an ice car - you have to go to where the fuel is because it isnt at your house.
It takes a few minutes to fill once you get to it and pay, but you have to get there, and get back home.


If the fuel station is down because it doenst have power and you waited to long to fill up whats your strategy?

A ton of folks live in apartments with only on street parking. They can not own and run a generator if electricity is out. Natural gas is not available to everyone. These folks will have to walk or bike when electricity is out. Those folks that have NG and a generator with a driveway in their stand alone house will be able to charge their EV. Good for them.

 

[PandaBear]

A ton of folks live in apartments with only on street parking. They can not own and run a generator if electricity is out. Natural gas is not available to everyone. These folks will have to walk or bike when electricity is out. Those folks that have NG and a generator with a driveway in their stand alone house will be able to charge their EV. Good for them.

If I live in apartment do I really want a backup generator in my closet? I would probably just pack my stuff and uber to a cheap motel with power, or drive to a motel with charging station nearby.

 

[Astro14]

Let’s keep the politics out of this, please, or it will be locked.

 

[UncleDave]

A ton of folks live in apartments with only on street parking. They can not own and run a generator if electricity is out. Natural gas is not available to everyone. These folks will have to walk or bike when electricity is out. Those folks that have NG and a generator with a driveway in their stand alone house will be able to charge their EV. Good for them.

Correct.

This is the problem with using examples as absolutes.

Your reality is not mine, and vice versa.

I get more flexibility from an EV and others get less.

 

[Astro14]

A ton of folks live in apartments with only on street parking. They can not own and run a generator if electricity is out. Natural gas is not available to everyone. These folks will have to walk or bike when electricity is out. Those folks that have NG and a generator with a driveway in their stand alone house will be able to charge their EV. Good for them.

The issue for apartment dwellers isn’t transportation, it’s refrigeration.

They can fill up, or charge, their car like everyone else.

But when the power dies, and it will during a hurricane, 12-24 hours later, all their food is spoiled.

The real need for backup power is to prevent food spoilage and, with infants or elderly, climate control.

 

[billt460]

I try to always keep my tanks full in ALL of my vehicles. Between both tanks in my F-150, my Toyota Camry, and my Jeep Grand Cherokee, that amounts to approx. 78 gallons of fuel. Both of my generators have 6.6 gallon fuel tanks that I keep full at all times. I also keep 2, 5 gallon cans full of fuel for them. Add it all up and I have right around 100 gallons of gas available at any given time.

That will keep both generators going for quite a while, allowing me plenty of electrical power, and still have transportation if necessary. If I thought all hell was going to break lose, I would most likely get several more 5 gallon cans. Point being, gasoline powered cars and trucks can double as rudimentary "storage tanks". EV's?? Not so much.

 

[4WD]

If I live in apartment do I really want a backup generator in my closet? I would probably just pack my stuff and uber to a cheap motel with power, or drive to a motel with charging station nearby.

My son lives in an apartment - his best friend Rex built a new house 5 minutes away. Just made Rex a super deal on a 6000/7500 watt portable with only 8 hours run time … Have a stereotype to break

 

[edyvw]

Sure but how many people actually store enough of it and store it properly?

Remember most EVs get fully charged every night.
Even though you might have less overall range when full the fact that it is full means a lot when everything just stops for miles around you.

few to none are hauling a genset with them.

Power outages in california often have no warning like a hurricane or something you can see coming miles away.

In CA you can rely on generator. In CA you can rely on solar. In post hurricane NOLA you cannot. Evacuation from large metropolitan areas during hurricane can last 12-24hrs. You can have spare fuel to keep your ICE on road for that amount of time. EV you cannot. As for how many people prepare for natural disasters is different thing. You cannot fix stupid. I every winter end up digging in neighborhood JEEP and truck dudes with my Tiguan bcs. not willing to understand that large tires and snow don’t mix well. But, for those that are willing to understand, EV is limited, a lot. That is why you cannot see them at local ski resorts. You can in Vail or Beaver Creek, but those are folks that drive Tesla to charity dinner to save the planet, and then LX570 to grocery store.

 

[OVERKILL]

Hey! You need to pick a better example…

My brother’s ‘84 Olds wagon was a climate controlled masterpiece. Tight, quiet, capable of ice box temperatures in sweltering summer heat, and of roasting you in below zero weather, once the mighty 350 diesel* was up and running.

When they were new, the double weather stripping, massive heater core, and even more massive evaporator in an Oldsmobile made them incredibly comfortable.

Oldsmobile had the best selling car, the Cutlass, in the world in the mid 70s. World-beating climate control was a large part of that success.


*Never a problem with that engine or its injection pump. The car was totaled in a rear end collision when it had over 200,000 trouble-free miles on it. Putting gasoline in the tank, and failing to change the oil on time, killed a lot of those Olds diesels, leading to a reputation for poor reliability, when in fact, negligent, ignorant ownership was much more to blame.

OK OK, lol, an '84 F-250 "Custom" crew cab with no headliner

 

[4WD]

Hey! You need to pick a better example…

My brother’s ‘84 Olds wagon was a climate controlled masterpiece. Tight, quiet, capable of ice box temperatures in sweltering summer heat, and of roasting you in below zero weather, once the mighty 350 diesel* was up and running.

When they were new, the double weather stripping, massive heater core, and even more massive evaporator in an Oldsmobile made them incredibly comfortable.

Oldsmobile had the best selling car, the Cutlass, in the world in the mid 70s. World-beating climate control was a large part of that success.


*Never a problem with that engine or its injection pump. The car was totaled in a rear end collision when it had over 200,000 trouble-free miles on it. Putting gasoline in the tank, and failing to change the oil on time, killed a lot of those Olds diesels, leading to a reputation for poor reliability, when in fact, negligent, ignorant ownership was much more to blame.

Had a Delta 88 diesel for 70k trouble free miles - highway star! Then traded on a GMC 2500 diesel …

 

[Astro14]

I should add that I don’t store fuel all year, just July through October.

Then I pour it in the truck and use it.

Gasoline with ethanol doesn’t last long in the humid climate near the beach, no matter how it is stored.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

same place the platinum comes from for millions of catalytic converters,

Same questions, but few ask that....why is that?

Laws require CCs. And the platinum used is a small amount. And it's not toxic. And they last indefinitely.

This is why few ask.

 

[UncleDave]

Laws require CCs. And the platinum used is a small amount. And it's not toxic. And they last indefinitely.

This is why few ask.

The process of mining it, extracting it, and the byproducts involved - IS toxic.

So is oil, oil spills, oil refining, and all the other associated cost of oil.

Cats do not last indefinitely.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

Sure but how many people actually store enough of it and store it properly?

Um. Probably most, particularly seasoned experienced residents. Next question.

 

[supton]

Honest questions, where do the materials to make big batteries come from? What materials are in batteries? Are they toxic? How long does a car battery last, how much do they cost to replace, and how are the disposed of? What is the live span of a EV car, versus a traditional ICE?

I think if you honestly appraise the answers to these questions, you will find that traditional simple ICE vehicles even with poor MPGs are more environmentally friendly because they last 40 years and are cost effective to repair and keep on the roads.

Free your mind.

There was something I saw the other day, some fellow from Tesla spun off and was working battery recycling. Not sure how far it has gone yet. No doubt it is a problem.

I'm short on time at the moment but I have seen several articles exploring the CO2 generation. For an EV it is without a doubt higher up front. But between something like 50k and 100k the EV pulls ahead--highly dependent on the feed material for the power plant, of course.

I've been reading the articles I come across--have you? Free your mind indeed--I never thought I'd give up my manual transmission, manual windows, or live a life behind a computer screen. Much less see the day that hybrid cars would make sense.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

The process of mining it, extracting it, and the byproducts involved - IS toxic.

So is oil, oil spills, oil refining, and all the other associated cost of oil.

Cats do not last indefinitely.

We need machines. It's a fact of life. I'm not nor never have claimed ICE is some altruistic clean source of energy. We should strive to make it cleaner and more efficient. Oil spills are gut wrenching awful experiences. Oil pipelines increase efficiency and reduce spills. Weird, that we've canceled big ones... isn't it? Wars for oil are terrible. More reasons to pump our own. Weird, we won't do that. One might scratch his head over these things. Wonder if the deck isn't stacked in favor of pushing us to EVs.... hmmmm....

So, we need machines. Are you going to power jets, airplanes, and construction machinery on solar panels and batteries? Not in my lifetime. Not in probably 10 generations.

I will admit oil is a filthy environmentally negative from harvesting it, accidents, spills, fires, explosions, and the use of it in machines and disposal of it. But it is a necessary fact of life.

Can you admit EVs are equally or more destructive with the mining of toxic materials which then pollute in their own ways thru their own life cycles?

 

[PimTac]

That said, reverse powering a house during the disaster, using an F-150, is a fascinating concept. Not as cost effective as a NG powered whole house generator, but certainly an interesting alternative.

I wonder how long that would last?