How Many Here Are Turned Off By Electric Vehicles ?

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There was something I saw the other day, some fellow from Tesla spun off and was working battery recycling. Not sure how far it has gone yet. No doubt it is a problem.

I'm short on time at the moment but I have seen several articles exploring the CO2 generation. For an EV it is without a doubt higher up front. But between something like 50k and 100k the EV pulls ahead--highly dependent on the feed material for the power plant, of course.

I've been reading the articles I come across--have you? Free your mind indeed--I never thought I'd give up my manual transmission, manual windows, or live a life behind a computer screen. Much less see the day that hybrid cars would make sense.

But what happens to the battery at year 8 when it needs replacement? And does the car simply go to an early grave due to depreciation at that point? Old obsolete technology to expensive to fix? If the answers are not favorable for these important questions, then the ICE vehicle that is fixable and cost efficient is the clear lifecycle winner and the clear environmental winner, since ICE vehicles are designed to run 300k miles and last 30 years or more.
 
But what happens to the battery at year 8 when it needs replacement? And does the car simply go to an early grave due to depreciation at that point? Old obsolete technology to expensive to fix? If the answers are not favorable for these important questions, then the ICE vehicle that is fixable and cost efficient is the clear lifecycle winner and the clear environmental winner, since ICE vehicles are designed to run 300k miles and last 30 years or more.
Got data that indicates they were designed to run 300k & last 30 years?
 
I wonder how long that would last?
I wonder, too…

Ford claims “4 days”.

4 days of what, exactly? Fridge? lights?

In Vermont, I had a generator. Ice storms, in particular, as well as blizzards, would bring down the power for days when trees took out power lines.

The transfer panel had only the essential circuits: Fridge, interior bathroom lights, well pump, septic pump, furnace and heat circulator pumps. But that would be a large drain on a Li-ion battery in cold Vermont weather. I really doubt that you would get four days out of it then.

The beauty of a gasoline generator in that scenario was that the gasoline stations usually had power even if my house didn’t, so refueling and maintaining essential power wasn’t an issue.

Evacuation was also never considered.
 
Do we really care about 1 of the EV in a 2 or 3 car household if we are evacuating a hurricane? What about people living in apartment with no car? If they can get out alive why would people living in apartment with 1 car be in any problem?
 
We will see old, beaten-up Nissan Leafs/GM Volt drive 50mph on a 70mph highway because inadequate battery power. It's already happened on my commute.

The folks doing that are called “hypermilers”

There is at least one “hypermiler” getting above 40mpg with his 600hp manual corvette , I’m guessing you’ve never noticed him driving 45mph on the highway.

These folks don’t drive slow because the battery sucks (maybe the Leaf since they are all defective) but drive slow to save energy between charges.

If I was patient my old Honda could top 100mpg on a tank but who wants to drive 40mph?

But what happens to the battery at year 8 when it needs replacement? And does the car simply go to an early grave
The “Sparkie” the 438,000 mile Volt is getting nearer 500,000 miles after a transmission replacement

Battery is original, my guess is you figure every ICE that needs transmission repair is immediately crushed?
 
Agreed. I live in Hurricane country. We get warnings, and perhaps a few impacts, every year. Evacuated once. Lost power nearly every time.

The energy density of gasoline is an undeniable, basic fact of chemistry. The roughly 1,000 lb battery of a Tesla stores about the energy equivalent of 3 gallons of gasoline.

With an impending need for more fuel, perhaps anticipating a natural disaster, I can store the equivalent energy of several full EV charges in a couple of 5 gallon Jerry cans.

That said, reverse powering a house during the disaster, using an F-150, is a fascinating concept. Not as cost effective as a NG powered whole house generator, but certainly an interesting alternative.
I am not sure whether VA requires gas stations to have independent source of electricity, but FL does. I know some don’t have it, but by law they should.
I mean, I get the trend where this is going. But, either we have folks arguing coal rolling is their constitutional right or folks arguing we will all die in terrible death unless EV.
In 20 years, after several policy failures cost some folks on both sides to lose politically, we will settle on hybrids until we figure out all these answers.
 
Do we really care about 1 of the EV in a 2 or 3 car household if we are evacuating a hurricane? What about people living in apartment with no car? If they can get out alive why would people living in apartment with 1 car be in any problem?
That would be separate issue. I can tell you based on my work, there are numerous issues far more important when it comes to Louisiana and any natural disaster. But, we are discussing EV’s.
 
Why do they HAVE to come with self driving?
Particularly when they are not capable of doing it. Just had another one hit two parked cars here in FL, that's the third time this week. The other was a cop car.
How do you know this was self driving?
And no, you do not have to purchase driver assist, at least in a Tesla. Many don't.
And many cars have self driving, not just EVs, right?
 
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You need to chill. If the tech is not ready there would be lobbying to stop it.

Remember EV1? It went away when the law in California to mandate EV was eventually repealed. We end up with some good gas car later and people keep driving better and better gas car, but the tech invented for EV1 era cars end up in Prius later on, and the one in Prius end up in other EVs later on.
I really don't think I'm being a chicken little, here. Our state legislature (Washington) passed a law this year banning the sale of ICE vehicles by 2030. It was vetoed by the governor, not because he didn't like it, but because the law was contingent on a per mile road tax passing a popular vote. They'll pass it again next year and make it stick.
 
........I've never had a problem filling up the cars and the spare gas cans with an impending storm.

Not once.

Plywood and sand bags are another matter…
Building materials are expensive and scarce as it is. Much like ammunition. Now with this hurricane I can just imagine how high they'll go.... Assuming you can even find them. Today it's almost gotten to the point, if you want to show off to people just how wealthy you are, you shoot a box of 9 MM into a sheet of plywood.
 
Got data that indicates they were designed to run 300k & last 30 years?

Yup. 100 million cars on the road that are probably near, at, or over 30 years and/or 300k. Standby, and I'll get you 100 million VIN numbers. lol.

Data?? Yeah, I have lived in society for more than 10 minutes.

Average age today of cars on the road is 12 years. Doing a bell curve that means there are a lot of cars over 24 years old. There's zero less than 0 years old. I'm not super smart but this seems quite elementary.
 
I'm a little late to this thread, but I love 'em for the following reasons:
1) Stupidly fast
2) Perfect "throttle" response
3) No downshifting
4) Quiet inside
5) Stupidly fast

All the other points are valid, and that's why I don't own one (yet).

None of which matter, at all, except to a very sliver of % of the population. And when they see the pricetag, or wrestle with the lack of practicality, the sliver is reduced to a fraction of that sliver.
 
I really don't think I'm being a chicken little, here. Our state legislature (Washington) passed a law this year banning the sale of ICE vehicles by 2030. It was vetoed by the governor, not because he didn't like it, but because the law was contingent on a per mile road tax passing a popular vote. They'll pass it again next year and make it stick.

Most likely for ICE only, hybrid still fine.

Whether governments do it or auto manufacturers do it, it's all going to get phased out anyway. ICE only probably in the next 10-15 years (aside from work trucks, equipment etc) and hybrids probably 5-10 years after that.
 
Yup. 100 million cars on the road that are probably near, at, or over 30 years and/or 300k. Standby, and I'll get you 100 million VIN numbers. lol.

Data?? Yeah, I have lived in society for more than 10 minutes.

Average age today of cars on the road is 12 years. Doing a bell curve that means there are a lot of cars over 24 years old. There's zero less than 0 years old. I'm not super smart but this seems quite elementary.
We have been talking about this average thing for a long time now, this is not how average works, and the distribution curve doesn't work that way.

Let's say someone abandon a 40 year old crown vic in their backyard and they have 2 6 year old cars, the average would be (6 + 6 + 40) / 3 but the road worthy part of the math is really (6 + 6) / 2. Most people drive the newer cars in their household and rarely drive the oldest of the pool.
 
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Yup. 100 million cars on the road that are probably near, at, or over 30 years and/or 300k. Standby, and I'll get you 100 million VIN numbers. lol.

Data?? Yeah, I have lived in society for more than 10 minutes.

Average age today of cars on the road is 12 years. Doing a bell curve that means there are a lot of cars over 24 years old. There's zero less than 0 years old. I'm not super smart but this seems quite elementary.
About a year ago, 25% of 280 million registered vehicles were over 16 years old. I'd be surprised if the number for 30 years was anywhere near 100 million today.

25% of cars in the U.S. are at least sixteen years old as vehicle age hits record high
 
EV technology has been very very slow to get to where it's at. It's been around for a century. Mainstream for 2 decades. Propped up bigly by government subsidies and investments. And here we are, STILL talking about how they suck and ICE is better in practically every category except, now, EVs are "better" in the most irrelevant metric. I can go 2 seconds faster in a drag race. lol. Most humans don't care. This is a distracting propaganda headline grabber. Oh, and they are better for the crowd that has money to burn and will stand in line for the latest techno gadget. That's not most humans. That's a certain type of person. EVs are a one-trick pony and still worse in nearly every important metric for most peoples' needs.

The reason people buy big powerful V8s is because you get, well, power. PLUS you get reliability, versatility, towing, speed, acceleration, etc.
Yes, EV have been around for a century. But in the early days, there were no gas stations and only the very rich had cars.
The EV mass produced technology has evolved pretty darn quick.

I don't know about all EVs, but Teslas are extremely reliable. Power, and handling in any Model 3 is amazing. Maintenance includes cabin air filter and lubing brake components in cold climates. Can my car tow? No, but neither can the TSX. Corvette, 4-4-2. The Tundra can, up to a point. I tow once every 5 years or so...

I charge at home when I am not using the car. An ICE vehicle spends tons more time fueling up unless you have your own gas tank...
Personally, if I am going any distance, I get on a plane. I could use the RX, but my time is pretty valuable to me.
I rarely drive over 300 miles in 1 day.

No one said EVs are for everyone. And I have stated I live in the Silicon Valley bubble. I get that.
If an EV is not for you, or whatever, good; don't buy one.
But apparantly others love their Teslas. They have the highest customer satisfaction of any car at any price.
 
We need machines. It's a fact of life. I'm not nor never have claimed ICE is some altruistic clean source of energy. We should strive to make it cleaner and more efficient. Oil spills are gut wrenching awful experiences. Oil pipelines increase efficiency and reduce spills. Weird, that we've canceled big ones... isn't it? Wars for oil are terrible. More reasons to pump our own. Weird, we won't do that. One might scratch his head over these things. Wonder if the deck isn't stacked in favor of pushing us to EVs.... hmmmm....

So, we need machines. Are you going to power jets, airplanes, and construction machinery on solar panels and batteries? Not in my lifetime. Not in probably 10 generations.

I will admit oil is a filthy environmentally negative from harvesting it, accidents, spills, fires, explosions, and the use of it in machines and disposal of it. But it is a necessary fact of life.

Can you admit EVs are equally or more destructive with the mining of toxic materials which then pollute in their own ways thru their own life cycles?
With more pistons and toys than just about anyone I love my oil. Check my sig line - I can never be called green.

Iv never espoused trying to make EV' fit where they dont work. Well be dealing with fossil fuels a long long time.

You've also never seen me push them "because green"
I like them because of their flexibility (for me) and superior driving dynamics.

The data Ive seen behind Ev's is the they are dirtier to make but there is a break even that occurs as consumption takes hold.

Im not certain you are correct.

Engineering explained makes a strong case for where this breakeven is between a model 3 and a hybrid toyota in terms of total CO2.



If you care about green the EV gets more green over time as production of power shifts.

Screen Shot 2021-08-30 at 11.22.30 AM.webp


Im totally open to looking at any comprehensive breakdowns you'd like to post on the matter of cradle to grave pollution/emissions.
 
The new Ford F-150 comes in a Hybrid model that offers a built in generator up to 7,200 watts, (7.2 KW).

https://camperreport.com/2021-f150-ford/#:~:text=The new onboard generator comes,a full tank of gas.
My neighbor that has a Prius and he mentioned being open minded about getting a F150 hybrid if it can tow to replace his Suburban in a while. I don't know the maintenance night mare the hybrids are, but his Prius is interesting I have enjoyed it the several times I drove it.
 
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