How long do i have to wait to warm up?

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quote:

Originally posted by cryptokid:
i have explained this before, but i forgot which post i typed it in. anyways it is awalys beneficial to let any_engine warm up.

when you first start the engine up the pistons, rings and exhaust valves are the first things to come up to tempature. now as we all know aluminum expands quicker than iron, so what do you think happens when youre aluminum pistons expand at a rate quicker than the iron cylinders can cope with? you guessed it, piston scuffing and loss of matereal.
the reason the cylinders dont expand just as quickly is a 2 fold answer. 1. aluminum expands quicker than iron when heated, and 2 the aluminum piston and ring set have alot less physical mass than a big iron cylinder.

to a lesser extent the same problem happens to youre exhaust valves when they heat up quicker than their valve guides which are encased in the big cylinder head. big head=lots of thermal mass.

this is for the same reason that piston slapping engines will often quiet down once they are up to tempature. the aluminum piston expands more than the iron cylinder and take up the space.

you cant ingore the laws of thermodynamics and just say it doesnt apply to youre engine!


Cryptokid,
Thanks for explaining this again. I have have a question.

Are you saying the dimension measured across the cylinder, the bore, is smaller or larger when the iron is cold?

As the iron comes up to temperature does this measurement slightly increase or decrease with heat?
 
quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyO:
Patman is correct.
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I start it and drive. Exception is if it is below 20*F, then the 5-step plan is #1 start truck, #2 shift off OD, #3, idle down the hill to the donut shop, #4 consume maple cinnamon roll and coffee while reading sports pages and letting truck idle outside, #5 drive to work. Well, the exception is letting it idle I guess, the rest of the year the routine is the same every day.
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Fess up, you're doing it for the donuts and a working heater.
 
quote:

Originally posted by XS650:
Fess up, you're doing it for the donuts and a working heater.

Quite true, however I figure since I've cold started it and driven roughly 1 mile it's better to leave it run at that point rather than shut it down again. But yeah, it's nice to get into a warm truck. My decrepit van on the other hand gets idled a lot in the winter since it takes a long time to heat up or reheat the inside (big space, weak heater, all steel). But then, I don't care.
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It's an old Astro, they're indestructible.
 
So if you use Shell oil idle 2-3 minutes, ExxonMobil oil idle a few seconds, Pennzoil idle 30 seconds. What do you do if you run Kendall oil?
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quote:

Originally posted by TC:
"Q: Does it help to let your car warm up in winter before you start driving?"
"A: During the winter when an engine is cold and the oil is thick, DO NOT rev up the engine immediately after starting it. The best compromise is to wait two or three minutes, then drive slowly for the next five to 10 minutes until the engine reaches the proper operating temperature. This procedure keeps engine revs down and builds up the oil pressure required to allow lubricating oil to move throughout the engine. One of the main purposes of lubricants is to control friction and subsequent wear by putting an oil film between moving metal parts. Critical lubrication areas are the camshaft and connecting rod bearings, the cylinder walls and pistons. It takes a few minutes for the engine temperature to warm the oil to make this lubricating process work properly."
http://www.shell.ca/code/motoring/tips/engines.html

"Vehicle Warm-up: When starting a vehicle in cold weather allow the engine to idle for a few seconds before driving off to insure proper oil flow and lubrication. Do not allow engine to idle for a prolonged period after start up in cold weather. This practice wastes fuel and does not warm up drive train components. After starts, drive easily for several miles to ensure proper vehicle warm-up."
http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Newsroom/Newsreleases/xom_nr_041103.asp

"When you first start the vehicle, do not race the engine. Accelerate gradually until the engine (and the rest of the drivetrain) has completely warmed up; it takes about 10-15 minutes, depending on the outside temperature. Most engine wear occurs during cold-starts and during the first few minutes of operation afterwards. If you rev a cold engine it will greatly accelerate the wear and tear of the engine. If you have a truck and pull a trailer or haul heavy loads, it is especially important to take it easy until the engine's had a chance to warm up and the oil is circulating freely. Do you just start the vehicle and leave it idling in the driveway for more than a couple of minutes? Doing that is also bad for the engine, because idling does not heat your engine up quickly enough to burn off raw gas and other contaminants that can dilute the oil and reduce its ability to lubricate and protect internal parts properly. Simply get in, start the engine wait 30 seconds and drive way at a reasonable speed, avoid full-throttle starts or passing attempts until about 20 minutes have passed."
http://www.pennzoil.com/fix/carcare/make_your_ride_last.html


 
FYI....I was trying to find my post from last winter. I pulled my valve cover to see how long it took for oil to reach the roller rockers on my modded LT1. I have a high pressure Melling pump. As I recall the situation was this, 5w30 dyno oil, 11 degrees F. after sitting all night. I believe took 21-28 seconds for oil to appear on the rockers.
 
quote:

My wife also just starts up her '01 Civic and drives within less than a min of idling, and actually gets up to temp in < 2 minutes of driving!

That is one of my favorite things about my wife's 2000 Civic! With it's tiny 4 quart cooling system, it heats up super quick even on the coldest winter morning. I wouldn't be surprised if the oil temperature ends up hitting 200F within 10 minutes of driving, since the coolant temp hits that point long before that.
 
My old place was right at the end of a 5km twisty gravel sideroad, posted speed limit 40 km/h, and I parked in an insulated/heated shop. So I would just start up and drive away, even at -40.

At extreme cold temps, you really have to pay attention to the transmission and axle (Front drive or rear drive). Even if you use an oil pan heater, the axle is at ambient temp.

I've seen truckers from Florida and CA stuck in NW Ontario after a major blizzard has closed the Trans Canada. Then the temp drops to -42. They have left the motor at high idle (800-1,000 RPM) and hop right in.

If they can even shift the RoadRanger into gear (Regular SAE 50 non-synthetic motor oil turns solid at around 0 F), they usually twist the shaft off the axle power divider, since the 85W-140 or 80W-90 turned solid.

Allison recommends a "preheat" on their HD transmissions if the temp is colder than -15 F. That means leaving the transmission in N for 10-15 minutes with the motor running.
 
To all you engine warmer-uppers, try this: Tomorrow morning, start your car as you normally do, but this time wait about 15 seconds and start gently driving it, and listen carefully to your engine as you do.

When you get home from work that night, drain all of the oil out of your engine, let the car sit overnight with the drain plug out, and then start it up the next morning and drive it gently as you did the day before, again listening carefully to your engine for about a minute. Does it really sound the same as it did the day before? I don't think "lack of oil flow" is that big of a problem in the cold. If it was that much of a problem, I'm not sure you could even turn the engine over.

Your hypothesis is faulty in many ways, but chiefly this: if the problem on a cold morning is that the oil is cold and that it won't be "flowing" to critical engine parts, that holds true whether the engine is idling or moving the vehicle. The only difference is, the oil and all of the metal in the engine will heat up more quickly, expand, or whatever else you want to have happen, much more quickly and efficiently if the engine is gently driven than if the engine is idled. In other words, it's your choice to run the engine for a longer period of time under the conditions you purport, or for much, much less time at slightly higher RPMs.

It says right in my manual to avoid excessive idling, start the car and let it idle about 15 seconds, then drive it gently (RPMs under 2500) until the temp gauge comes up to normal. 204,000 miles, so far so good, in all sorts of Chicago temperatures.
 
quote:

Originally posted by GreenHornet:
I drive a Saab 900S (normally-aspirated.)

I've been told that Saabs are designed to heat the oil quickly; the oil pan is placed very close to the catalytic converter, and exhaust gasses help to get the oil up to operating temperature rapidly. This is obviously a function of cold Scandinavian winters. Consequently, it seems to me that allowing a Saab to idle for a minute or so on a cold winter's morning may have some benefit.


What year 900 is this? is this one of the "New Generation" 900s?

I only ask because the only 900s I am familiar with are the "Classic" 900s (1979-199?) with the ingine on top of the transmission and the oilpan actually the space between the engine and trans.

The converter on these cars in under the car approximately between the front seats. They warm up pretty quickly, however. Probably because the transmission case actually insulates the motor oil from the outside air.

I've always just started up, let idle long enough to clean snow/ice of windows (if necessary), or else long enough for idle speed to settle down, and start off.

The SAABs (1969 96 V4, 1978 99, 1979 900) always seemed to warm up fairly quickly. My current '91 Honda Prelude takes about 3-5 minutes before the temp gauge gets up to Normal.

My wife also just starts up her '01 Civic and drives within less than a min of idling, and actually gets up to temp in < 2 minutes of driving!
 
quote:

if the problem on a cold morning is that the oil is cold and that it won't be "flowing" to critical engine parts, that holds true whether the engine is idling or moving the vehicle

I believe that is a valid point. The pistons, valvetrain etc. are going to be moving faster than one would like whether the car is moving or not. And warming the engine for a few minutes is going to do little to warm the ATF, nothing for the diff and nothing for a manual transmission or transfer case if you have them. I think it is like swallowing bad tasting medicine, you can take it all at once or take it slowly but it's going to taste bad just the same. I do minimal warmup and get going slowly at least until the gauge registers above C.
 
Oil pressure up (10-15 secs) and go.

But remember that coolant temp is only one item to need warming. Trans, diff, bearings, joints all come to operating temperature over a different span of time.

Get it into top gear for speed, and expect that a minimum of seven miles to temp, and another seven or more until corrosives, condensates, etc begin to burn off!

Op-temp means little besides enough drive time to overcome a cold start for all componentry!

At the least, take it out monthly for an easy 50-100 mile drive to re-establish mild wear pattern.
 
What can i recommend to my dad. He's got an 02 lexus es 300 with with under 5k miles. It is a really nice, smooth car. But i notice, he gets in the car, turns it on, and instantly floors it. He does this a few times a day. I told him to give it some time but he is a really busy guy. Is there anything i could do to help lower the wear he makes. I think first step would be converting to synthetic.
 
Engines survive a lot of abuse. In 1968 I moved into an upper flat. The people next door started up their 1960 Chevy I6 every morning and revved it up for a few minutes. The first few mornings I ducked under the bed expecting inbound pistons. Don't know how long it had been going on, but it survived until I moved on 3 years later. I also do not know how good of shape it was in, but it still ran.

Yes go with a good 0W-? and something with an ADBV you trust.
 
When visiting my inlaws on Sunday, it can get pretty cold up on the mountain where they live. The first thing I do when leaving at night is drive about 2 miles down pretty steep grades (usually only let it warm up maybe 15 seconds before first moving the car). I have been using engine drag to conserve the pads and shoes, but if the engine is cold, is it damaging to rev it between 2-3K RPM with engine breaking? I thought I read somewhere that that creates negative pressures in the cylinders and would create extra lubrication.

Thoughts on how to handle that situation??

TIA,
G
 
20 I just slowly drive off and it never leaves the temp guage peg. I drive an '02 Dodge Ram with the tough little 4.7L. Using 6qts M1 SS 5/30 and a napa gold.
 
I like to let my truck run and chill out for about 30 seconds just because I've made a habit of it over the last couple years.

I've tried the start up and go thing provided the temp was reasonable out and the truck is still revving at a high 1500 RPM right after srart up. The truck likes to move faster and it seems that puts more stress on parts. So I let it idle for about 30 seconds and then go. It seems this way the truck is not so "Anxious" to move and feels less stressed to move once I let off the brake pedal. That and I feel it gives me a piece of mind,,,,,,,AR
 
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