Always liked the GS, but for that kind of money can get a lot of neat pieces.
IF i can be nosey...what did you pay?
It scores well in conversation in Tokyo, but not so much anywhere else. (unsurprisingly)
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How does someone even become an "Independent Expert" on watch authenticity? Specifically Rolex
- Thread starter JT20
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IF i can be nosey...what did you pay?
It scores well in conversation in Tokyo, but not so much anywhere else. (unsurprisingly)
I got it for 2500 in Phoenix (Scottsdale) about 5 years ago.
There was place in Tokyo called "Lemon" the store had it all boxed papered and everything a first year edition he wanted 10K US for it.
Had he wanted 2500 Id have popped.
I dont know much about them, and wasnt about to drop 10K.
!!!!! I looked up "lemon" for snicks and found the very watch at the very place, probably still for sale.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/watch-shopping-tokyo-that-time-i-almost-bought-a-vintage
10k no way
My sentiment exactly.
So, a couple of different things.
This is an 1890s watch, and it was common practice at the time for the end buyer to purchase the case and movement separately, or truth be told more often the jeweler/inspector or whoever would case them up on display from their inventory of cases and movements, and would sell a pre-made combination or swap things around to the buyer's taste(i.e. some might want a fancy case and don't really care about the movement, a railroader needed a high quality movement but wanted a simple or inexpensive case. Maybe someone else would want it all.
Later on, it became common to case movements at the factory, and Ball was no exception. This one, IIRC, is in a Keystone 20 year gold filled case, so nothing particularly special.
I showed a couple of close ups for a reason. If you look closely at the logo on the dial it says "Trademark Official RR Standard Wm. Kendrick's Sons Louisville". A typical Ball dial has an identically styled logo but says "Ball Watch Company Cleveland" where this one is marked Kendick Louisville. Similarly, the movement on this one carries the marking "Wm. Kendrick's Sons Louisville KY." A standard 18 size Ball-Hamilton would be marked "Ball Watch Company Cleveland" in this spot. This watch is not marked "Ball" anywhere on it, even though from a foot away you likely wouldn't notice anything unusual about it if you've owned/looked at 18 size Ball Hamiltons(they're one of the less expensive Ball Official Railroad Standard watches).
As for the jewel count-Ball largely followed industry trends. In the 1890s, Ball was a loud voice saying 17 was plenty and there are advertisements he put out claiming more didin't do anything. Cap jewels on the escape wheel and pallet fork DO have less overall friction, allow better adjustment and control of endshake, and reduce friction in the fastest moving parts of the train. Consequently, they are beneficial, and eventually as the rest of the industry moved toward 21j watches as "standard" for railroad grade, so did Ball. There again, the 16 size 21j Ball-Hamilton based on the 992 is extremely common. There are also 23J Ball-Hamiltons, which carry a similar premium to a Hamilton 950 vs. a 992. Probably the most valuable Ball watch is the 23j Illinois Ball, but that's mostly because the just didn't make very many of them.
Im a bit confused, you say the watch is not marked Ball anywhere on it - but between 7 and 5 the face of the watch you posted it clearly says
"Balls Standard dial pat applied for"??
I get that its not labelled as a ball normally would be and am in no way trying to take away from the uber coolness of the piece or your great info. (keep it coming please! )
Wouldn't the wording on the face give some kind of hint away as to its pedigree, or at least use intent?
"Balls Standard dial pat applied for"??
I get that its not labelled as a ball normally would be and am in no way trying to take away from the uber coolness of the piece or your great info. (keep it coming please! )
Wouldn't the wording on the face give some kind of hint away as to its pedigree, or at least use intent?
Okay, you've caught me on that, and I admit that somehow I'd never noticed that although I'm not surprised it's there. Ball made a big deal out of dial design/legibility.
To me the "cool" thing is that the Official RR Standard mark on the dial is identical to a standard Ball marking unless you look closely and see that it doesn't actually say Ball Cleveland.
BTW, these watches are collectively called "Ball Private Labels", which is a weird concept anyway since Balls are sort of private labels in their own way, but it's how they're known. There's no clear numbers on how many are out there. A friend of mine has documented roughly 30 different jewelers, but a lot probably exist(or were made rather) in quantities of 10 . From my own observation, and talking with others, Kendrick is the most common one that turns up(which is good for me since it's the main one of interest to me). Looking at serial numbers where they show up, there were probably around 50 Kendrick Balls made-maybe more or a few less(and probably in multiples of 10 due to how watches progressed through the factory/were sold). Marcy & Co of Indianapolis is nearly as common, but I've seen a couple more Kendricks that Marcys.
I think the thing is killer, and your knowledge of is provenance makes it even more interesting.
Its probably more valuable as the private label unit than if it were labelled as a standard ball - if there is even such a thing.
Looking at the finishing on the movement it appears Kendricks had a lot of in house skill.
Its gorgeous, and Id love to fondle it. Ok that just got weird - but you guys know what I mean.
Its probably more valuable as the private label unit than if it were labelled as a standard ball - if there is even such a thing.
Looking at the finishing on the movement it appears Kendricks had a lot of in house skill.
Its gorgeous, and Id love to fondle it. Ok that just got weird - but you guys know what I mean.
Rolex stopped quartz production watches because the COSC (chrononometer certificate testing )tolerances for quartz movements got harder.
Thank you for that clearification however, is that the only reason?
Ive read that Rolex skipped the quartz revolution because they felt it was a fad and would pass.....who true this is ...is anybody's guess.
I bought a Rolex Sub in HS back when they were 275.00
My grandfather had died in 71 and each grandkid got 10k ....lots of money back then.... most went to college but I bought a Rolex Sub in the summer between soph and junior year....Some money went to buying a used 73 Datsun truck.....to haul my dirt bikes in.
Plus I worked part time at a local grocery store in Tempe AZ....Smitty's
I bought a Rolex Sub in HS back when they were 275.00
My grandfather had died in 71 and each grandkid got 10k ....lots of money back then.... most went to college but I bought a Rolex Sub in the summer between soph and junior year....Some money went to buying a used 73 Datsun truck.....to haul my dirt bikes in.
Plus I worked part time at a local grocery store in Tempe AZ....Smitty's
Rolex used the el primero caliber from zenith for their daytona for a while. BUT they changed the wheeltrain and balance-hairspring combo and made it a 28800 vph watch. Almost all of the performanxe with way less escapememt oiling problems.
No. COSC only tests movements. They are encased .after they are back form the test.
Since the casing can affect the movement that seems inadequate from a holistic standpoint.
do not see the problem, cars come out the assembly line are driven a short test and that is it.
After encasing, watches are tested for rate fully wound and after 24H, running reserve is controlled, water resistance is tested
and go through a couple of aestethics controls.
