Honda J35 timing belt question
- Thread starter Dave Sherman
- Start date
Thanks! Guess that settles it, $6 is cheap insurance!
Sherman-
correct torque is necessary for a good, lasting repair. This requires clean threads. Reusing a bolt with hardened treat locker on its threads results in greatly diminished clamping torque despite an apparent correct torque. A lot of the applied torque is used in just overcoming friction from hardened threat locker. Try tightening (or lessening) a bolt with it and you will readily see (some of those diy guys on uTube mention how hard it was to remove that bolt bc of it)
Honda is specifying a new bolt in the interest of expediency. Rather than a tech spending/wasting billable time cleaning the old thread locker off so that the old bolt so can be reused; it is more cost efficient to simply install a new bolt.
It is not that the bolt is damaged or that it is a TTY bolt (which would require replacement). Cleaning the old, hardened thread locker off with solvent or wire brush would allow reuse with no problem. I believe an improperly torqued bolt form hardened tread locker on its threads is the reason the pulley came off in the case Sherman cites.
FWIW- Honda techs at a local large Honda dealer never change the TB idler pulley. They claim they never go bad. If you want one installed, pay more.
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That may well be, but in the incident Critic linked, the bolt actually broke off and left a fragment in the block. I guess we don't know the whole story on that one, maybe it had been over-torqued or it had a defect. Thank you for the explanation though, and for confirming that even Honda techs don't always replace it. At 33 ft-lb I didn't think it was a TTY bolt.
Yeah but if it got loose bc of insufficient torque, it would be battered to death and shear
That's interesting and no doubt they have the most experience and/or factory data to back this up. Every aftermarket "kit" includes them though and a pulley is relatively inexpensive in the scheme of a timing belt job so it would be silly not to replace it while you're already there.
The '98-02 Accord service manual doesn't say to use a new bolt for the idler pulley. I had never considered that before even though I've done this job twice now on our '02 V6. I'll replace that bolt next time though. Thanks.
JHZR2
Staff member
What happens if you have one with a push button start? Can’t bump it like with a key….
You're supposed to disconnect something else (ignition coils ??) to keep it from cranking so when you do that, won't hitting the push-button start still "bump" the starter ?
I might be inclined to just trip the starter solenoid manually in that case. Just leave the ignition off all together.
JHZR2
Staff member
Screwdriver trick? Not sure I want to be under there for that…. I guess I can get a starter button.
Well, maybe with a piece of wire to prevent marking up the factory terminals. A switch would be even better though. Should be plenty easy to get to the starter, there's usually nothing covering them up.
Honda doesn't use LocTite Threadlocker or similar. They use a re-usable material like this, Vibra-Tite VC3:
The red color is deceptive, as it is closer in strength to LocTite Blue.
On Honda parts where this material is used, the torque specs account for that, NOT for clean threads.
Thank you-
Yes, that Honda goop goes on as a liquid so little effect on installation torque ( essentially clean, lubed threads). When it is reused it has hardened and does effect torque.
What is your source of Honda info for this compound? Interesting...
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This is what I'm talking about, these are new bagged Honda car parts and the "goop" is not liquid (pic from Piloteers forum). Red in this case means high temp, medium strength.
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actually Critic’s Honda FSM pages call for Hondalock 1 on that bolt and it’s low strength. In my opinion xperience, friction liquifies that goop as bolt is tightened down. Then it sets up and hardensThis is what I'm talking about, these are new bagged Honda car parts and the "goop" is not liquid (pic from Piloteers forum). Red in this case means high temp, medium strength.
Different bolt then the one I pictured/described.
Yeah but the pages address the bolt for THAT car. Gotta stay on topic
No, it is the same bolt. The document was for a TB chirp TSB on the 2016 Pilots. For that TSB, they walk you thru the install of a shim behind the idler pulley. I don't think adding a shim should necessitate extra threadlocker, but who knows.
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