Thank you!
Honda Factory Fill - BUSTED
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Thank you!
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In short, would you put so much weight on insisting on ..or defending the practice of ..this "do as you're told"..if it was a Chevy??
Depends on which Chevy engine and where it was manufactured. Note too that Chevys equiped with the OLM also receive a recommendation not to change the oil until the OLM so indicates.
As a side note, Gary, I would of thought you would of recused yourself from this debate seeing that you have insider knowledge.
FWIW. Decided to go longer on the Factory Fill because when I checked the stick at 600 miles the oil looked super clean, like new. I made a blot sample. I then drove 400 miles this weekend, 95% mountain highway and got 35.4 MPG's! At 1K the oil STILL looks brand new, like zero miles and no oil consumption I can detect. I ordered LC tonight and think I will add some to this oil. The MM says the oil has 90% left and so I might go a K or two more. This engine seems to be breaking in very well. I'm reading about ARX...Is that really something I should think about using to clean the break-in metal out of the engine? Or will LC be all I need to do at this point?
Auto-RX is for cleaning dirty engines of deposits due to oxidation, nitration, etc, of the oil, not for cleaning out wear metals. Now LC or maintenance doses of AutoRX will help keep it clean. I'm not sure how soon you want to use AutoRX on an engine that is breaking in, but I believe you can begin using LC right away. I'd wait until the first OCI, but Terry, others, might advise differently.
Yes. That's what I suspected. The problem I am having at BITOG is that I do a search and find some information and the next thing I know it or my interpretation of it is not entirely correct. Here is a post from "Frank" a "Site Sponsor" I believe about the new engine use of Auto-RX. It was from a Lube Control vs. ARX? thread.
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["Frank" posted....]
First thing don't mix chemistries in same application Auto-Rx will remove LC as it will clean it off the metal.You need Auto-Rx at any mileage it will clean up metal pariculates from manufacturing process in brand new engines. It cleans metal there is no othe product that works like Auto-Rx do you know that Auto-Rx after cleaning gives your oil performance you have paid for and never got.
"I believe the blend of esters used in ARX also serve as very effective friction modifiers under high pressures/temps. I've not only noticed increased fuel efficiency in my in-house testing, but lower wear rates as well - particularly iron wear from valve train components."
Above from a customer with knowledge of oil and all it's particulars. (not Terry) Auto-Rx is the best value going.
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See what I mean...."it will clean up metal...in a brand new engine."
At least you are helping me "live" online and that is appreciated. Is Frank connected to ARX or LC? How does one judge BITOG advice? I saw no one contradict or correct him after that post including some BITOG heavyweights like Terry and JohnBrowning. Not easy being a rookie oil guy trying to figure stuff out!
I concluded LC was all I needed in my new Si, but I tossed out the ARX comment just to see if that was a good idea or not. I guess I might ARX the '04 Accord V6...25,000 miles. UOA coming back soon on that one...
Frank is the inventor & owner of ARX.
Alright! Thanks.
Cicero:
What did your blot card look like?
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See what I mean...."it will clean up metal...in a brand new engine."
Well if Terry tells you differently, always follow his advice, since after all, he's the professional here. But IMHO, I just don't see how much it will help on the factory fill or first OCI. Haven't millions of Honda engines gone 200K-300K miles and more by people who have never heard of Auto-RX? It's a great product, and I fully support it use in maintenance doses, or periodic cleaning every several tens of thousands of miles, but I really believe you're getting a bit obsessive here.
A VERY, VERY clean pale, almost colorless, nearly invisible overall blot, if that makes sense. The VERY faint "ring" in the center is 1 cm across. The actual super faint "dark part" of the center ring is only 1 or 2mm wide. Barely visible yellowish tint around the center ring out to about 1cm. further. Does not look anything like the much darker yellow "Mobil 1 yellow" fresh oil blots I get. I see nothing sparkly or metallic but then again I have never have seen that on any blot.
Nothing radiating out or anything like that breaking up a very basic simple blot. It looks as clean as any "virgin" oil blots I have ever made to reference further samples against.
[quote...
Well if Terry tells you differently, ...
Sorry about any confusion. That was just something from the quote of Frank's post. Terry has said nothing to me. Yes. I agree it might be overkill to use ARX. But, the idea that it might clean out breakin metals is kind of interesting. Three days ago I didn't really even know about what LC actually does.
Well if Terry tells you differently, ...
Sorry about any confusion. That was just something from the quote of Frank's post. Terry has said nothing to me. Yes. I agree it might be overkill to use ARX. But, the idea that it might clean out breakin metals is kind of interesting. Three days ago I didn't really even know about what LC actually does.
Uh, his opinion is really 2nd to none to like everyone elses. All experts say something different, just do what you want with your oil. Dont put the flame suits on, everyone says something different, me to feel better Id change it at 1,000 miles and put synthetic in it. You probably dont have to, but it would make me feel better. See. Go talk to Pat Goss or Rusty Wallace and they will tell you two different things too, this guy will say something else.
I've toured the Ford Assembly plant in Atlanta, GA. Spent a whole day there. I've never been to another plant in my life. I was very impressed with the facility, cleanliness and equipment. Seeing cars having an alignment done as a guy floors it on a dyno is a WOW thing to see. Got to see the rain test machine. and other stuff. Saw pretty much everything. THE ONLY THING that scares me... is a fresh car never been started up.... coming off the line... some idiot jumps in and FLOORS THE SHIZIL OUT OF IT. Burning tires and all!!!!! That is what scared me. I think if they did that with cars in Japan back in the 70's and 80's when they were making their prime... someone would go home without a right foot.
As for break in oils and such. I change the oil at 1K and add Dino oil. I'd start using a Syn After about 5K. Not saying that's the best option, or the only. but to me it makes sense. I've changed oils on brand-new vehicles before that had magnetic drain plugs... and the initial change had a lot of metal stuck on the magnet. I remember distinctly on my dad's 2002 S10 4.3 Vortec. He bought it brand new... and @ 1,500 miles I changed the oil and the drain plug is magnetic from the factory.. had quite a bit of metal built up on it. After that.... I did 3-5K OCI and never saw hardley any build up at all on the magnet. WHICH leads me to beleive that there is a "break-in" of parts. Engines are metal, rubbing against other metal(s). Whether break in takes 10 seconds or 1,000 miles.. not sure. but it must take some amount of time bc where did all that metal come from on the magnet? Anything that's metal on metal... has to "wear" together. It only makes sense. Electronics boards don't need break in... but moving parts do. I know I hate a new pair of shoes... but once broke in; love them. not sure if that's a good analogy, but you get the point.
This thread is about a Honda, not 3/4 of a pushrod pig-iron V8 made on equipment installed in the 1960s.
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Sure. Just not as much. Most of your factory fills for your Asian based engines have around 1000ppm of moly. Chevy ..100-300ppm.
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So if I did an UOA at 500-1000 miles it will probably show X-1000ppm Moly?
No. My NEW Honda Oil in My Element showed 326... In other words, it was "just a good oil"...
Matchbox car...they printed the report with the wrong motor. Your Element has the same 2.4 iVTEC as Accord and CR-V's. And once broken in correctly...you'll be amazed at future reports. If not, you'll just prolong break in for a couple OCI's. Thats all.
Regarding break in, I followed Honda's recomendations to keep the factory fill in the motor until the first OCI for both my 2004 Honda's. The first UOA's are simply amazing. And one runs dino, one runs syn...all the time.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=0#Post746375
Regarding break in, I followed Honda's recomendations to keep the factory fill in the motor until the first OCI for both my 2004 Honda's. The first UOA's are simply amazing. And one runs dino, one runs syn...all the time.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=0#Post746375
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
That is what Honda's Service news says.. I tend to believe that is where the generous portion of moly is coming from in UOA's. I really liked the pic of the oil that turned greenish from a 5 minute test run. Could that be how GC Green is made.
Happy motoring
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