High Performance Lubricants PCMO Series

I asked the same thing, & this was the response.

"We do offer our Diff Life 75w80 if you prefer that
Thicker is not better- in a gear box it can result in foaming and higher temps - actually reducing protection on longer drives."

I decided to go with the thinner MTF10, as that was his recommendation. My Civic is also a slow, gen 7 econo-box with the D17 motor & am not pushing my gears to redline every day. It mainly just sees longer freeway drive times, but RPM's usually stay between 300/400k for long distance & use 5w40 in the crankcase as he recommended to me a year ago where I prefer it thicker anyway. Made sense to me that in a gear box the thinner oil would cool down quicker & flow better, providing better protection, so I decided to give it a go.
that's good to know. being how thin the Honda MTF is.
 
This is a surprising (to me) pic of what the HPL CC green did to POR-15 gas tank liner stuff after sitting a couple of weeks. It didn't all lift off, but most softened and wrinkled.
IMG_8162.webp
 
Has anyone used HPL Premium 0W20 (not Premium Plus, Euro, Supercar, etc)?

I was wondering how it differs from the other 0W-20 offerings from HPL in terms of composition and if I could expect any difference in performance? I know Premium Plus is PAO heavy and Euro and supercar are additive heavy.
 
Has anyone used HPL Premium 0W20 (not Premium Plus, Euro, Supercar, etc)?

I was wondering how it differs from the other 0W-20 offerings from HPL in terms of composition and if I could expect any difference in performance? I know Premium Plus is PAO heavy and Euro and supercar are additive heavy.

Premium Plus = SuperCar except with different ad packs. They are at the top of the HPL line for their respective Euro/American formulas. Both use same base oil etc.

Premium = PCMO basic, but with star polymer instead (improves shear stability)

With HPL, I'd suggest to just start with their basic PCMO unless you have a need to improve on an already excellent formula. If you call HPL they'll say the same thing. P+ and SuperCar have better cold start properties (for example) and can probably run longer intervals.
 
Premium Plus = SuperCar except with different ad packs. They are at the top of the HPL line for their respective Euro/American formulas. Both use same base oil etc.

Premium = PCMO basic, but with star polymer instead (improves shear stability)

With HPL, I'd suggest to just start with their basic PCMO unless you have a need to improve on an already excellent formula. If you call HPL they'll say the same thing. P+ and SuperCar have better cold start properties (for example) and can probably run longer intervals.
This is a great reference post for getting into HPL.

What's still unclear to me after reading HPL posts until my eyes water is how the "heavy duty" oils fit into the gasoline engine picture. Yes, obviously there's the diesel certs. But why are so many running the Premium CK oils in gas engines? I see a reference higher ZDDP levels in these oils, ok. But I'm not sure why that would be the case. API SP's 800ppm limit shouldn't apply since they aren't pursuing API licensing. Nor should the limit reflecting in standard "cake mix" add packs be an issue because HPL clearly views such add packs as starting points and adjusts from there.

Why are so many making the choice to run HPL CK4 HDEOs in their gas engines instead of a regular A3/B4 "diesel" spec? @wwillson is one such prominent member choosing the CK HDEOs, I'm just curious what the perceived benefit is relative to Supercar or such with a 502/505 add pack.
 
Why are so many making the choice to run HPL CK4 HDEOs in their gas engines instead of a regular A3/B4 "diesel" spec? @wwillson is one such prominent member choosing the CK HDEOs, I'm just curious what the perceived benefit is relative to Supercar or such with a 502/505 add pack.
This is a quote from me in the past on this subject:

I run HDEOs in everything because of the additional detergents and dispersants. It is my belief that modern engines eventually die because of deposits in and around the ring packs. I want an oil that will keep the pistons and ring packs as clean as possible.

You've probably seen the oil filter from my Durango? Three is so much carbon being cleaned from the internals, frankly I'm astounded. The only oils I ran for the first 110,000 miles was a leading syn 0w-30 in the winter and a leading 10w-30 HDEO in the summer and still have that many deposits.

Dave's new line of HDEOs have alkylated naphthalene, which the previous lines didn't. ANs clean like nobody's business, but they are expensive, so not commonly used in motor oils. Not only do they clean, but they will keep internals super clean. I'm pretty excited about the new formula...

David Ward helped me decide for my 6.2L Tahoe that I'll be running PCMO Premium Plus, not a HDEO. The PCMO will keep the internals clean and the HDEO wouldn't make a difference in cleanliness. The PCMO will be easier on the exhaust catalyst if it burns any oil.
 
This is a great reference post for getting into HPL.

What's still unclear to me after reading HPL posts until my eyes water is how the "heavy duty" oils fit into the gasoline engine picture. Yes, obviously there's the diesel certs. But why are so many running the Premium CK oils in gas engines? I see a reference higher ZDDP levels in these oils, ok. But I'm not sure why that would be the case. API SP's 800ppm limit shouldn't apply since they aren't pursuing API licensing. Nor should the limit reflecting in standard "cake mix" add packs be an issue because HPL clearly views such add packs as starting points and adjusts from there.

Why are so many making the choice to run HPL CK4 HDEOs in their gas engines instead of a regular A3/B4 "diesel" spec? @wwillson is one such prominent member choosing the CK HDEOs, I'm just curious what the perceived benefit is relative to Supercar or such with a 502/505 add pack.
I run the supercar in the, well, the supercar, mostly because of the strong HTHS and the cold flow. I still have M1 0W40 in the other supercar because it’s only gone about 1,000 miles this year and I just can’t dump oil that early. I still have some M1 0W40 bought on a great sale, and I need to use that up.

I run the supercar in the 2004 V70R because it’s garaged in Denver, CO and see both very high heat, and extreme cold (skiing) and I like to rev (six speed manual) the high pressure turbo engine when climbing mountain passes.

I run the Euro in the rest, the 2002 V70XC, the 2002 V70T5, the 2004 XC90, and the 2016 Tundra, because the Euro is designed for longer drain intervals, and while the engines don’t often see extended drain intervals, the 2004 XC90, for example, is parked on the streets of Cambridge, MA, and I can’t always change the oil on time, so the Euro gives me a bit of “headroom” if the change comes later than I would like.

That help? I would use PCMO for the Tundra, but I run the Euro in that just to keep the inventory manageable.
 
This is a great reference post for getting into HPL.

What's still unclear to me after reading HPL posts until my eyes water is how the "heavy duty" oils fit into the gasoline engine picture. Yes, obviously there's the diesel certs. But why are so many running the Premium CK oils in gas engines? I see a reference higher ZDDP levels in these oils, ok. But I'm not sure why that would be the case. API SP's 800ppm limit shouldn't apply since they aren't pursuing API licensing. Nor should the limit reflecting in standard "cake mix" add packs be an issue because HPL clearly views such add packs as starting points and adjusts from there.

Why are so many making the choice to run HPL CK4 HDEOs in their gas engines instead of a regular A3/B4 "diesel" spec? @wwillson is one such prominent member choosing the CK HDEOs, I'm just curious what the perceived benefit is relative to Supercar or such with a 502/505 add pack.

The reason HPL HDMO's are well accepted in gas engines are due to the approach in formulating. In the API realm, everybody is in a race to the bottom. They tend to formulate to the minimum standard test criteria, not the engine. When they do consider the engine, it's to determine what they can eliminate to cheapen production. Diesels don't turn a lot of rpm so certain parameters like friction reduction and foam prevention go on the back burner. It's how you get an oil like Rotella with no moly that foams like a rabid dog. It's how you get a 15W-40 oil with 12% Noack. The marketing department gets a much bigger budget than the R&D department. Shell spends ~$60 million/yr marketing Rotella. That marketing cost is factored in the price of the product. A good chunk of the price you pay is just funding their marketing campaigns. It's not about performance. It's about profit.

In contrast to that, HPL formulates all of their oils to a performance standard rather than a price point. The standard is set and prices made accordingly rather than the other way around. All of HPL's HDMOs contain equal amounts of ester and AN, high ZDDP, high moly, low volatility, no foam, exceptional PDSC/RPVOT oxidation, excellent cleaning ability, very high TBN, long drain interval potential, minimal VII, and what VII is used is very shear stable. Add in the transparency and great customer service, you have a product worth using and company you want to do business with. Since HPL doesn't spend tens of millions a year in marketing, the prices are rather reasonable for the performance you get. You look at Lucas oil, for example, and see their marketing everywhere. About half or more of that insane price you pay for 10 cents worth of bright stock in a 50 cent bottle is just funding their massive marketing campaigns. It's going to that stadium in Indianapolis and that sponsored helicopter over racing events. You're not buying the product, you're buying the brand. With HPL, you're buying a product.

HPL's HDMO is well regarded in gas engines because it's built on the same solid foundation. You get all of the protection of a gas oil plus additional ZDDP and more dispersant for those who want that. There's no barriers in performance. It's even promising in TGDI engines with no LSPI events, despite the higher calcium, because their approach to formulating prevents that reaction catalyst to begin with. It's a personal preference thing. The PCMO line is not lacking in any way that the HDMO would benefit. For those who simply want the higher ZDDP and dispersant, regardless of objectivity, it's there.
 
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Premium Plus = SuperCar except with different ad packs. They are at the top of the HPL line for their respective Euro/American formulas. Both use same base oil etc.

Premium = PCMO basic, but with star polymer instead (improves shear stability)

With HPL, I'd suggest to just start with their basic PCMO unless you have a need to improve on an already excellent formula. If you call HPL they'll say the same thing. P+ and SuperCar have better cold start properties (for example) and can probably run longer intervals.
Very well said. This is what they told me too when I asked about which product to used with my car and truck. He said regular PCMO is plenty, did not upsell me at all. Still running their regular PCMO.

On the HDEO front, I asked about two months ago which of their oils I should get for my gas boat engine and he recommended the CK HDEO specifically because of the ability to resist shear. Hopefully that helps someone else out when picking HPL lubes!
 
David Ward helped me decide for my 6.2L Tahoe that I'll be running PCMO Premium Plus, not a HDEO. The PCMO will keep the internals clean and the HDEO wouldn't make a difference in cleanliness. The PCMO will be easier on the exhaust catalyst if it burns any oil.
This sort of confirms my suspicion-- if David W felt the additional content was necessary in the PCMO line, it would be there already. I believe all the HPL oils for the PCMO line all contain AN now and perhaps in prior HPL formulations, some variants had no AN?
HPL's HDMO is well regarded in gas engines because it's built on the same solid foundation. You get all of the protection of a gas oil plus additional ZDDP and more dispersant for those who want that. There's no barriers in performance. It's even promising in TGDI engines with no LSPI events, despite the higher calcium, because their approach to formulating prevents that reaction catalyst to begin with. It's a personal preference thing. The PCMO line is not lacking in any way that the HDMO would benefit. For those who simply want the higher ZDDP and dispersant, regardless of objectivity, it's there.

OK, this part answers my question: it's HPL catering to customers who want a bit more ZDDP and dispersant. I've underlined what I think is an important part of the answer. I think it's worth mentioning the obvious here: those customers making this choice are overriding HPL's own recommendations for additive packages for gas ICE engine. The PCMO add packs obviously reflect HPL's best judgment about what is optimal within application constraint.

I think one downside to the HPL product line being so incredibly tailored and specific is that it makes it a nightmare to answer the "best" question we each have for a particular vehicle. I know I spent an inordinate amount of paralysis-from-analysis time before settling on the 15w-40 PCMO.

My HPL PCMO 15w-40 experiment is in full swing with both my old GX460 and my Accord 2.0T now filled with it. So far, going from factory 0w-20 to VRP 5w-30 to HPL 15w-40 I'm seeing zero change in fuel economy with any of them. Since the Accord in particular can bring in serious boost at pretty low rpm (peak torque at 1500rpm!), I really wanted the thicker film of a heavy oil when it pulls 15psi of boost at 1500rpm. Diesel like torque curves need diesel-like viscosities IMO. I also wanted more margin against the fuel dilution these engines are known to incur.
 
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