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that's good to know. being how thin the Honda MTF is.
High Performance Lubricants PCMO Series
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What's the liner made of?
POR is a moisture-cure polyurethane
Well, their fuel tank liner product is. The other POR-15 products aren’t necessarily the same.
Has anyone used HPL Premium 0W20 (not Premium Plus, Euro, Supercar, etc)?
I was wondering how it differs from the other 0W-20 offerings from HPL in terms of composition and if I could expect any difference in performance? I know Premium Plus is PAO heavy and Euro and supercar are additive heavy.
I was wondering how it differs from the other 0W-20 offerings from HPL in terms of composition and if I could expect any difference in performance? I know Premium Plus is PAO heavy and Euro and supercar are additive heavy.
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Premium Plus = SuperCar except with different ad packs. They are at the top of the HPL line for their respective Euro/American formulas. Both use same base oil etc.
Premium = PCMO basic, but with star polymer instead (improves shear stability)
With HPL, I'd suggest to just start with their basic PCMO unless you have a need to improve on an already excellent formula. If you call HPL they'll say the same thing. P+ and SuperCar have better cold start properties (for example) and can probably run longer intervals.
This is a great reference post for getting into HPL.
What's still unclear to me after reading HPL posts until my eyes water is how the "heavy duty" oils fit into the gasoline engine picture. Yes, obviously there's the diesel certs. But why are so many running the Premium CK oils in gas engines? I see a reference higher ZDDP levels in these oils, ok. But I'm not sure why that would be the case. API SP's 800ppm limit shouldn't apply since they aren't pursuing API licensing. Nor should the limit reflecting in standard "cake mix" add packs be an issue because HPL clearly views such add packs as starting points and adjusts from there.
Why are so many making the choice to run HPL CK4 HDEOs in their gas engines instead of a regular A3/B4 "diesel" spec? @wwillson is one such prominent member choosing the CK HDEOs, I'm just curious what the perceived benefit is relative to Supercar or such with a 502/505 add pack.
This is a quote from me in the past on this subject:
David Ward helped me decide for my 6.2L Tahoe that I'll be running PCMO Premium Plus, not a HDEO. The PCMO will keep the internals clean and the HDEO wouldn't make a difference in cleanliness. The PCMO will be easier on the exhaust catalyst if it burns any oil.
I run the supercar in the, well, the supercar, mostly because of the strong HTHS and the cold flow. I still have M1 0W40 in the other supercar because it’s only gone about 1,000 miles this year and I just can’t dump oil that early. I still have some M1 0W40 bought on a great sale, and I need to use that up.
I run the supercar in the 2004 V70R because it’s garaged in Denver, CO and see both very high heat, and extreme cold (skiing) and I like to rev (six speed manual) the high pressure turbo engine when climbing mountain passes.
I run the Euro in the rest, the 2002 V70XC, the 2002 V70T5, the 2004 XC90, and the 2016 Tundra, because the Euro is designed for longer drain intervals, and while the engines don’t often see extended drain intervals, the 2004 XC90, for example, is parked on the streets of Cambridge, MA, and I can’t always change the oil on time, so the Euro gives me a bit of “headroom” if the change comes later than I would like.
That help? I would use PCMO for the Tundra, but I run the Euro in that just to keep the inventory manageable.
The reason HPL HDMO's are well accepted in gas engines are due to the approach in formulating. In the API realm, everybody is in a race to the bottom. They tend to formulate to the minimum standard test criteria, not the engine. When they do consider the engine, it's to determine what they can eliminate to cheapen production. Diesels don't turn a lot of rpm so certain parameters like friction reduction and foam prevention go on the back burner. It's how you get an oil like Rotella with no moly that foams like a rabid dog. It's how you get a 15W-40 oil with 12% Noack. The marketing department gets a much bigger budget than the R&D department. Shell spends ~$60 million/yr marketing Rotella. That marketing cost is factored in the price of the product. A good chunk of the price you pay is just funding their marketing campaigns. It's not about performance. It's about profit.
In contrast to that, HPL formulates all of their oils to a performance standard rather than a price point. The standard is set and prices made accordingly rather than the other way around. All of HPL's HDMOs contain equal amounts of ester and AN, high ZDDP, high moly, low volatility, no foam, exceptional PDSC/RPVOT oxidation, excellent cleaning ability, very high TBN, long drain interval potential, minimal VII, and what VII is used is very shear stable. Add in the transparency and great customer service, you have a product worth using and company you want to do business with. Since HPL doesn't spend tens of millions a year in marketing, the prices are rather reasonable for the performance you get. You look at Lucas oil, for example, and see their marketing everywhere. About half or more of that insane price you pay for 10 cents worth of bright stock in a 50 cent bottle is just funding their massive marketing campaigns. It's going to that stadium in Indianapolis and that sponsored helicopter over racing events. You're not buying the product, you're buying the brand. With HPL, you're buying a product.
HPL's HDMO is well regarded in gas engines because it's built on the same solid foundation. You get all of the protection of a gas oil plus additional ZDDP and more dispersant for those who want that. There's no barriers in performance. It's even promising in TGDI engines with no LSPI events, despite the higher calcium, because their approach to formulating prevents that reaction catalyst to begin with. It's a personal preference thing. The PCMO line is not lacking in any way that the HDMO would benefit. For those who simply want the higher ZDDP and dispersant, regardless of objectivity, it's there.
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Very well said. This is what they told me too when I asked about which product to used with my car and truck. He said regular PCMO is plenty, did not upsell me at all. Still running their regular PCMO.
On the HDEO front, I asked about two months ago which of their oils I should get for my gas boat engine and he recommended the CK HDEO specifically because of the ability to resist shear. Hopefully that helps someone else out when picking HPL lubes!
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