High Performance Lubricants Euro Oil PDS

We are primarily an industrial company. We do have a passion for cars and for racing. The bottom line is we have no intentions on taking over any kind of automotive oils market. What we do is prove ourselves in racing with some very respectable teams that could really choose anyone they want to. We don't pay them, we don't write check #1. The most we do for a team is provide oil. We learn a lot from racing. We take what we learn and apply these things to other products we make. We are extremely fortunate to have a couple of people working with/for us that are cubic smart in our industry. We formulate products making decisions that I doubt a company of any size would ever produce if we published the formula. We simply put a lot higher quality and quantity of chemistry in very good base stocks and the cost would be way too high to interest someone producing large volumes.

We do not seek approvals. We start with approved chemistry and make sound decisions to improve the products from there. We do a lot of testing internally and with 3rd parties to make sure we produce products with integrity. We of course use oil analysis to verify that the products do what they were intended to do which is work in the field. Our staff involved with technical decisions has over 140 years of combined experience. We don't formulate to minimum standards.

With respect to Noack, We start with group III oils and go up from there in our plant. That is rare. We choose good base oils and formulate with low volatility in mind. There have already been examples again in the real world of users that see reduced oil consumption when compared to their previous oil. Is that absolute? Probably not, but not because we didn't make good choices in base oil. We do have a TGA. One of Dr. Rudnicks publications was a method to use a TGA to roughly correspond to a NOACK. Since this is not a problem area for us we don't run NOACK. It's not a problem for me as its is ultimately up to me to be sure we make products with integrity once again.""

I met a moderator of BITOG some time ago. We spoke and he began using some of our oils. I chose to get involved with BITOG and am here for people who share the same ideas of looking for a higher quality product. We will likely never be a good match for someone looking for the cheapest oil because we will never be that with respect to price. It does not make sense for us to go through the expense to seek approvals when we are not in the business of cutting corners. If that is not understandable that is completely fine.

David
Sounds like a bunch of malarky to me. You either have VW 504/507 approval or not. "Meets or exceeds" is meaningless.
 
We are primarily an industrial company. We do have a passion for cars and for racing. The bottom line is we have no intentions on taking over any kind of automotive oils market. What we do is prove ourselves in racing with some very respectable teams that could really choose anyone they want to. We don't pay them, we don't write check #1. The most we do for a team is provide oil. We learn a lot from racing. We take what we learn and apply these things to other products we make. We are extremely fortunate to have a couple of people working with/for us that are cubic smart in our industry. We formulate products making decisions that I doubt a company of any size would ever produce if we published the formula. We simply put a lot higher quality and quantity of chemistry in very good base stocks and the cost would be way too high to interest someone producing large volumes.

We do not seek approvals. We start with approved chemistry and make sound decisions to improve the products from there. We do a lot of testing internally and with 3rd parties to make sure we produce products with integrity. We of course use oil analysis to verify that the products do what they were intended to do which is work in the field. Our staff involved with technical decisions has over 140 years of combined experience. We don't formulate to minimum standards.

With respect to Noack, We start with group III oils and go up from there in our plant. That is rare. We choose good base oils and formulate with low volatility in mind. There have already been examples again in the real world of users that see reduced oil consumption when compared to their previous oil. Is that absolute? Probably not, but not because we didn't make good choices in base oil. We do have a TGA. One of Dr. Rudnicks publications was a method to use a TGA to roughly correspond to a NOACK. Since this is not a problem area for us we don't run NOACK. It's not a problem for me as its is ultimately up to me to be sure we make products with integrity once again.

I met a moderator of BITOG some time ago. We spoke and he began using some of our oils. I chose to get involved with BITOG and am here for people who share the same ideas of looking for a higher quality product. We will likely never be a good match for someone looking for the cheapest oil because we will never be that with respect to price. It does not make sense for us to go through the expense to seek approvals when we are not in the business of cutting corners. If that is not understandable that is completely fine.

David
Fair enough.
That is why I am asking “why not.” I am not expecting you will push out Mobil1, so for smaller company I am not expecting to immediately go at it. That was my thinking too.
However, this crowd is bit wary of “meet and exceed “ oils mostly bcs. coming from bigger blenders much longer in Euro game, that could seek approvals. So, that is why question are being asked.
 
This thread is like a bunch of a Mcdonalds line cooks trying to tell Gordon Ramsey how to cook a steak.... and asking to see a USDA approval label on the meat he's using.
And that would be wrong why?

Trust but verify. How am I supposed to know if a set of typical PDS values are equivalent to the requirements of a specific VW or BMW approval?
 
The 5w-30 and 5w-40 look very good! Personally I understand the hesitations as well. But based on the UOA's and reputable reviews of other HPL's offerings, I have no issues with trying them. To me they seem to be right up there with Redline, Amsoil SS, and Motul Sport/300V, all of which have 0 approvals as well. Not comparable to say the Amazon Basics 5w-40. I'm looking forward to running it in my X5 and other vehicles. Might even try running the full OEM 15k OCI for once! Just gotta run through much QSFS Euro stash 1st....

P.S. The 0w-40 is listed in the Supercar PDS.
 
How does your 0W-30 meet the VW 504/507, ACEA C3 and Porsche C30 with an HT/HS viscosity below minimum requirement?

Thank you for pointing this out. Although embarrassing, it is not correct. After a conversation with my lab I learned the data from a previous version ended up on the PDS. We raised the Vis after that version to get over the 3.5 hump. Ironically the 0w30 is the most difficult euro oil to blend if you do want to meet all the properties. The good news is it’s done.

David
 
And that would be wrong why?

Trust but verify. How am I supposed to know if a set of typical PDS values are equivalent to the requirements of a specific VW or BMW approval?

You can’t. Ultimately you have to decide if the company in question is likely making something cheap and has something to hide or perhaps one that uses good materials and follows the path set forth from the additive manufacturer that is required to be compliant. (That would be us)
 
At the end of the day I have already seen the lack of cleanliness issues with an “approved” fluid. Short intervals and still sludge. We weighed the oil going in the car. Using our engine flush and a 1000 mile drain there was a beautiful extra 6/10 of a pound of muck that came out of the crankcase. From there on out the car has remained clean on our oil. We will continue to do what we do with the smart people we employ. I don’t have worry 1 about the quality of our products.
 
At the end of the day I have already seen the lack of cleanliness issues with an “approved” fluid. Short intervals and still sludge. We weighed the oil going in the car. Using our engine flush and a 1000 mile drain there was a beautiful extra 6/10 of a pound of muck that came out of the crankcase. From there on out the car has remained clean on our oil. We will continue to do what we do with the smart people we employ. I don’t have worry 1 about the quality of our products.
Which approval and what vehicle?
 
Thank you for your reply to my concern and your inside information. I have had it out with Royal Purple concerning their shortcomings and they simply don't care. I appreciate a company that strives to improve and offer to the public a quality product.
 
Zinc and phosphorus numbers are very important to those with flat tappet large cams. Even if the numbers are lower the actual number is a good starting point for the amount of additive to use. Please this is not a knock on any of your products, personally I have no issue with "meets or exceeds" from a reputable company but some info can be the deciding factor eg Mobil 1 0w40 has 1100ppm while the ESP has 900 ppm and requires 2oz of additive to bring it up to approx 1200ppm.
 
Zinc and phosphorus numbers are very important to those with flat tappet large cams. Even if the numbers are lower the actual number is a good starting point for the amount of additive to use. Please this is not a knock on any of your products, personally I have no issue with "meets or exceeds" from a reputable company but some info can be the deciding factor eg Mobil 1 0w40 has 1100ppm while the ESP has 900 ppm and requires 2oz of additive to bring it up to approx 1200ppm.

I will get this information to you.
 
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