High Mileage 5.7 HEMI V-8's ??

[knightjp]

@OVERKILL The situation with the multiple sets of lifters was my fault.
My mechanic is experienced. He detected a faint lifter tick when I was buying the truck. So it stands to reason what the engine was already compromised by the previous owner. We used RL 5W30 and the tick went away. More like quietened down.
For about a year or more, I used RL with OCI at every 10,000 kms.
I began to notice a faint tick. I knew that was the manifold bolts because this sound was different from the usual lifter tick.
It was around the same time that RL was out of stock and I had to get a replacement. I used Amsoil SS. Around 3000 kms into that OCI was when the initial lifter tick came back. By 8000 kms into it, the ticks were quite loud. I had to change them.
The ticking was a result of both the lifters and the manifold bolts on the left side of the engine. In order to save cost, we changed only the left side. And then used the best lifters of the old ones for the right.
Again to bring the cost down, I decided to use Castrol Magnatec 5W30 start stop.
Within about 1000 kms after the rebuild, the lifter tick was back, on the right side. I thought I could remedy it by using a thicker oil. Didn’t work. Made it worse. Hence I had to take it back and have the mechanic replace the right side lifters.
I inspected those lifters when they went in. When they came out, we found out that it wasn’t the rollers bearings that failed. They were damaged internally.
By this time, RL was back in stock so I decided that the best way was to replace the right side lifters and then use RL 5W30 in shorter OCIs (5000 kms).

The suggestion of changing the entire engine is a good one. However quite expensive in my part of the world. In order to be safe, the best would be a new engine and right from the start use a good oil like Castrol Edge 5W30/0W40 or Mobil 1 0W40 & continuous use that oil.
Over here the affordable engine replacements are used ones from a salvage yard. Trouble with that is you don’t know the history and more likely it’s been for servicing to the local dealer and therefore would be compromised. You will have to change the lifters on it in order to be safe.

 

[NYEngineer]

My son bought this 2005 as his first car. Prior to getting there and seeing it I warned him that it may not be the right truck for him since it had over 200,000 miles on it. We get there and we learn the guy is the original owner. He breaks out endless service and repair records. He took freakishly good care of it. He was asking six grand. We got it for five. It's had Mobil 1 all it's life.
It runs nice, doesn't make any scary noises. The body has a couple of small spots where rust is starting to come through the paint. I constantly weigh my options whether to swap in a newer engine and do the small amount of body work to mint it out or just let him drive it til it quits and get him into a newer truck.
I think it has 235,000 on it now.

 

[knightjp]

View attachment 153760
My son bought this 2005 as his first car. Prior to getting there and seeing it I warned him that it may not be the right truck for him since it had over 200,000 miles on it. We get there and we learn the guy is the original owner. He breaks out endless service and repair records. He took freakishly good care of it. He was asking six grand. We got it for five. It's had Mobil 1 all it's life.
It runs nice, doesn't make any scary noises. The body has a couple of small spots where rust is starting to come through the paint. I constantly weigh my options whether to swap in a newer engine and do the small amount of body work to mint it out or just let him drive it til it quits and get him into a newer truck.
I think it has 235,000 on it now.

Looks sweet. I would fix up the body and hold off on the engine until it really dies. If you keep up with the maintenance, you could end up going another 200,000.
On the service records, does it mention any form of rebuild or change of lifters and cam?
What Mobil 1 have you been running on it? 5w30, 0w40, 5w40, etc.

 

[NYEngineer]

No cam and lifter swap which amazes me. Regular oil changes, repair this or that...
Even the trans is original. I believe the oil cap says 5W-30. We've been putting 10W-40 in it.
Thankfully my son doesn't drive like I did when I was his age. I woulda been though an engine and trans already.

 

[OVERKILL]

@OVERKILL The situation with the multiple sets of lifters was my fault.
My mechanic is experienced. He detected a faint lifter tick when I was buying the truck. So it stands to reason what the engine was already compromised by the previous owner. We used RL 5W30 and the tick went away. More like quietened down.
For about a year or more, I used RL with OCI at every 10,000 kms.
I began to notice a faint tick. I knew that was the manifold bolts because this sound was different from the usual lifter tick.
It was around the same time that RL was out of stock and I had to get a replacement. I used Amsoil SS. Around 3000 kms into that OCI was when the initial lifter tick came back. By 8000 kms into it, the ticks were quite loud. I had to change them.
The ticking was a result of both the lifters and the manifold bolts on the left side of the engine. In order to save cost, we changed only the left side. And then used the best lifters of the old ones for the right.
Again to bring the cost down, I decided to use Castrol Magnatec 5W30 start stop.
Within about 1000 kms after the rebuild, the lifter tick was back, on the right side. I thought I could remedy it by using a thicker oil. Didn’t work. Made it worse. Hence I had to take it back and have the mechanic replace the right side lifters.
I inspected those lifters when they went in. When they came out, we found out that it wasn’t the rollers bearings that failed. They were damaged internally.
By this time, RL was back in stock so I decided that the best way was to replace the right side lifters and then use RL 5W30 in shorter OCIs (5000 kms).

Damaged how? The HEMI lifter failure phenomena is predecated on the failure of the roller/bearing assembly where the heat treating of the roller or pin is inadequate/improperly applied and eventually the surface is breached, the needles pile-up and the roller stops rolling, taking out the lifter and the cam lobe.

Your scenario is not typical; heck, I've never even heard of somebody tossing lifters in a HEMI, but keeping the cam, because they got noisy but were otherwise in good shape.

Redline 5W-30 is heavy, at the very far end of the xW-30 spectrum with an HTHS you'll only find on Euro oils (typically A3/B4) and xW-40's. So, when you went to AMSOIL, you went to a thinner oil, even though the grade is the same. Same with Magnatec. If you were indeed having hydraulic, not roller, issues with the lifters, then the heavier oil, which increases oil pressure, could indeed make them quieter, but as I noted, this is not your typical "lifter issue" with the HEMI.

The suggestion of changing the entire engine is a good one. However quite expensive in my part of the world. In order to be safe, the best would be a new engine and right from the start use a good oil like Castrol Edge 5W30/0W40 or Mobil 1 0W40 & continuous use that oil.

Well, normally the engine is replaced because when we talk about lifter failure, we aren't talking about them getting noisy, we are talking about the roller assembly failing, wiping the cam lobe, sending metal through the engine, which requires an extensive tear-down and clean-out to make sure you get all of that contamination out and even then, you can't be 100% sure that you got it all without a full disassembly and cleaning.

Given North American labour prices, the cost difference between doing all that vs swapping in a new long block probably isn't much.

Over here the affordable engine replacements are used ones from a salvage yard. Trouble with that is you don’t know the history and more likely it’s been for servicing to the local dealer and therefore would be compromised. You will have to change the lifters on it in order to be safe.

I think we tend to go overboard here a bit on catastrophism. Our small fleet of HEMI's at work are all high mileage and have spent their lives on bulk NAPA (Valvoline) 5W-20. They all run fine, sound fine...etc. That's the case for the vast, VAST majority. It's not a fragile engine, but it is a noisy one due to valvetrain geometry and other design quirks, and it also runs dirty due to combustion chamber and head design.

 

[OVERKILL]

View attachment 153760
My son bought this 2005 as his first car. Prior to getting there and seeing it I warned him that it may not be the right truck for him since it had over 200,000 miles on it. We get there and we learn the guy is the original owner. He breaks out endless service and repair records. He took freakishly good care of it. He was asking six grand. We got it for five. It's had Mobil 1 all it's life.
It runs nice, doesn't make any scary noises. The body has a couple of small spots where rust is starting to come through the paint. I constantly weigh my options whether to swap in a newer engine and do the small amount of body work to mint it out or just let him drive it til it quits and get him into a newer truck.
I think it has 235,000 on it now.

'05 is pre-MDS, and the early HEMI's didn't have cam/lifter issues even when MDS was introduced, that came later, around the time they implemented VCT and I believe changed lifter suppliers. So, it's not surprising that the engine has been problem-free.

 

[Allaneddie]

We've all heard about the supposed issues these engines have been through, and have. How about those of you that have racked up some impressive mileage figures with them? Let's hear from the HEMI high mileage crowd. Mine doesn't qualify. Thus far it only has 17,000 miles. Barely broken in. How about you?

Also, what OCI's are you running, and what brand and weight oil?

This million mile RAM has had 2 HEMI engines. One went over 600K miles.

https://www.allpar.com/threads/1-million-mile-ram-1500-with-5-7-hemi.243678/#post-1085344043

 

[Deleted member 89374]

This million mile RAM has had 2 HEMI engines. One went over 600K miles.

https://www.allpar.com/threads/1-million-mile-ram-1500-with-5-7-hemi.243678/#post-1085344043

Yeah, but there is nothing like running Red Line while fantasizing on a certain RAM forum about how well it lubes, maintains, and even heals, those chinese lifters used in the 2009 and newer HEMIs. That was FCA cost-cutting at its finest.

 

[knightjp]

I agree with everyone.. the Hemi is a noisy engine. However there is a distinct difference in between the noise of an engine and the dreaded tick. Even the guys on the GM forums take note when it occurs on their LS engines. We shouldn't do any less. I think some context is required. I took a video the first time I heard the tick.


If a new Hemi is ticking, that is either a faulty batch of lifters OR the engine wasn't taken care of properly. Option 3 is the usage of 5w20 continuously on an engine in an extremely hot climate, causing the hydraulic lifters to fail. That is what happened to my engine / engines.
This is what I've come to understand and my personal theory is that the lifter tick is a result of manufacturers going to thinner oils just for EPA ratings - especially usage in hotter climates.
I'm convinced that using a good oil with shorter OCIs from the very beginning would easily keep this from happening. Hence why there are a number of people on the ram forum who have run Mobil 0w40 and Castrol Edge 5w30/0w40 and never faced an issue.

@OVERKILL I didn't change the cams because they weren't damaged (fortunately). There were minor scuffs on the lobes, but all in all my mechanic inspected them thoroughly and said they were good to go.
I understand that RL is probably hated on here, and probably in part to do with ram forum. As far as I've been told on that forum, its not a necessity, unless you have a lifter tick and you didn't change the lifters. If you have changed the lifters, you can run whatever brand oil you wish, as long as the oil is a 5W30 or 0w40 and ALL the lifters have been changed. I made the mistake of doing it one bank at a time.
I choose to run RL because I like the way that my engine sounds with it. My thinking is that if it quietens the tick, then it should be good enough to prevent it from happening. So far my assumptions have been proven correct - and its not just me, even others on various other forums had the same thought.

 

[TeamZero]

We've all heard about the supposed issues these engines have been through, and have. How about those of you that have racked up some impressive mileage figures with them? Let's hear from the HEMI high mileage crowd. Mine doesn't qualify. Thus far it only has 17,000 miles. Barely broken in. How about you?

Also, what OCI's are you running, and what brand and weight oil?

We have quite a few we service with 200k plus with zero issues. Just the bulk oil we buy through contract with Ma Mopar....its PP now for last 2 years or so.....cant remember what was before , but it wasn't syn. Was 5k rec change, now 10k with the syn PP

 

[knightjp]

No cam and lifter swap which amazes me. Regular oil changes, repair this or that...
Even the trans is original. I believe the oil cap says 5W-30. We've been putting 10W-40 in it.
Thankfully my son doesn't drive like I did when I was his age. I woulda been though an engine and trans already.

10W-40? What brand?.. How does the engine sound with it.
Not sure if that weight will be good in my engine. I've got a 2014 Ram 1500. I did try a 10W40 when I had the tick. Made it worse.

 

[NYEngineer]

10W-40? What brand?.. How does the engine sound with it.
Not sure if that weight will be good in my engine. I've got a 2014 Ram 1500. I did try a 10W40 when I had the tick. Made it worse.

I wasn't with him in the store with him when he picked it up but he got Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40. They didn't have any good filters that day so my brother got him a Baldwin.
BTW, my son informed me the truck has 255,000 on it now.

 

[hemioiler]

We have quite a few we service with 200k plus with zero issues. Just the bulk oil we buy through contract with Ma Mopar....its PP now for last 2 years or so.....cant remember what was before , but it wasn't syn. Was 5k rec change, now 10k with the syn PP

Happy to hear that. Just want to confirm though, you're referring to 200k miles and not just 200k kms right (you being in Canada)?

 

[GMBoy]

2016 Ram Limited 5.7 - 126k miles on Mobil 1 or QSUD 5w/30 - no issues except the common exhaust manifold leaks.

 

[The Critic]

And then there's this:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/another-hemi-bites-the-dust.368441/

 

[hemioiler]

And then there's this:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/another-hemi-bites-the-dust.368441/

Those are definitely outliers. The hemi has known issues, from hemi tick (2009 onwards) to dropping valve seats (pre 2009) and it also likes to occasionally munch on water pumps. But those are the more common ones I'm aware of, I'm not worried about that thread.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

@knightjp here is what AI thinks about Red Line 5W-30, and the HEMI lifter tick:

 

[billt460]

Rod Knock,

How do you know if the "tick" is lifter related, or an exhaust manifold leak? (HEMI's are noted to have both). My HEMI doesn't have it, and (knock on wood) won't in the future.

But with that said, is there a way to distinguish where it is coming from? From what I've read and heard, it's almost impossible to differentiate between the 2 sounds they're so similar.

 

[knightjp]

Rod Knock,

How do you know if the "tick" is lifter related, or an exhaust manifold leak? (HEMI's are noted to have both). My HEMI doesn't have it, and (knock on wood) won't in the future.

But with that said, is there a way to distinguish where it is coming from? From what I've read and heard, it's almost impossible to differentiate between the 2 sounds they're so similar.

We used a mechanic's stethoscope to note where the ticking was coming from. If you can hear it coming from the cam area, then its the lifters.

 

[knightjp]

Any comments on using this for a 2014 5.7 Hemi engine?