Help me rest my mind guys PLEASE .

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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by MetalSlug
It's sluggish at low rpm. It ran smooth once it going . I don't know . Mabe it just little i4 . Thanks guys .

There are a lot of (more likely) things that can cause poor idle or sluggish acceleration (like a failing EGR, injectors, dirty O2, clogged fuel filter, dirty TB etc.) besides oil viscosity.

Going from a 20 to a 30 shouldn't be an issue. At best the 150c viscosity is maybe +0.5, which I don't believe is thick enough to starve the engine or cause any measurable increase in heat (maybe at some of the very very tightest clearances). And the 5w is more than adequate for where you're at, it's still going to get pumped up to the top rather quickly.

You got that right. If I could feel that one of my vehicles was sluggish with a 30 grade oil vs. a 20 oil I'd sell it.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by MetalSlug
It's sluggish at low rpm. It ran smooth once it going . I don't know . Mabe it just little i4 . Thanks guys .

There are a lot of (more likely) things that can cause poor idle or sluggish acceleration (like a failing EGR, injectors, dirty O2, clogged fuel filter, dirty TB etc.) besides oil viscosity.

Going from a 20 to a 30 shouldn't be an issue. At best the 150c viscosity is maybe +0.5, which I don't believe is thick enough to starve the engine or cause any measurable increase in heat (maybe at some of the very very tightest clearances). And the 5w is more than adequate for where you're at, it's still going to get pumped up to the top rather quickly.

You got that right. If I could feel that one of my vehicles was sluggish with a 30 grade oil vs. a 20 oil I'd sell it.

Now if you had a calibrated butt?🤔

It's interesting, these thinner oils are being driven by fuel economy standards but as engines age/wear and clearances widen engine efficiency and power output declines (compression loss due to worn rings, valve train wear etc). I wonder if over the life of the engine are these thinner oils actually saving fuel? Sure maybe in the beginning when everything's brand spanking new but would it be wiser for engine mfgs to focus on durability (wear protection) as a way to go to conserve fuel? Nah...they probably just care that they can put a sticker on the NEW car showing high mpg's, so they can meet CAFE.

Wonder if there's been any 5yr/10yr FE studies on the Xw20 and Xw16 lubes??? Would it show a high % of vehicles having been switched over to a Xw30 after say, 5yrs???....Just a hunch but I think there's a price to pay for that fuel economy and that's long term wear (durability).
 
Honda are masters of the 4 banger. They do ridiculous amounts of torture testing their engines to determine what's the best grade oil for year round use. If the oil cap says 0W20, then use 0W20. Why is this an issue?
 
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by MetalSlug
It's sluggish at low rpm. It ran smooth once it going . I don't know . Mabe it just little i4 . Thanks guys .

There are a lot of (more likely) things that can cause poor idle or sluggish acceleration (like a failing EGR, injectors, dirty O2, clogged fuel filter, dirty TB etc.) besides oil viscosity.

Going from a 20 to a 30 shouldn't be an issue. At best the 150c viscosity is maybe +0.5, which I don't believe is thick enough to starve the engine or cause any measurable increase in heat (maybe at some of the very very tightest clearances). And the 5w is more than adequate for where you're at, it's still going to get pumped up to the top rather quickly.

You got that right. If I could feel that one of my vehicles was sluggish with a 30 grade oil vs. a 20 oil I'd sell it.

Now if you had a calibrated butt?🤔

It's interesting, these thinner oils are being driven by fuel economy standards but as engines age/wear and clearances widen engine efficiency and power output declines (compression loss due to worn rings, valve train wear etc). I wonder if over the life of the engine are these thinner oils actually saving fuel? Sure maybe in the beginning when everything's brand spanking new but would it be wiser for engine mfgs to focus on durability (wear protection) as a way to go to conserve fuel? Nah...they probably just care that they can put a sticker on the NEW car showing high mpg's, so they can meet CAFE.

Wonder if there's been any 5yr/10yr FE studies on the Xw20 and Xw16 lubes??? Would it show a high % of vehicles having been switched over to a Xw30 after say, 5yrs???....Just a hunch but I think there's a price to pay for that fuel economy and that's long term wear (durability).

My butt dino is dialed in, daily in fact.
wink.gif


FTR I agree with your hunch, there might just be a price you pay for the fuel economy. As the saying goes there's no free lunch. That could very well apply here.
 
Originally Posted by shrooms
Honda are masters of the 4 banger. They do ridiculous amounts of torture testing their engines to determine what's the best grade oil for year round use. If the oil cap says 0W20, then use 0W20. Why is this an issue?

Not really, I'm sure they do a lot of testing but that is to determine what is an acceptable grade to meet all of the criteria they are looking at. However, it is not necessarily the best grade for all of them.
 
I've tried both EP and vanilla M1, 5w30 and 5w20 in my Kia and both times it felt sluggish.
Try Magnatec 5w30 next time, I'm quite sure you'll like it
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by MetalSlug
It's sluggish at low rpm. It ran smooth once it going . I don't know . Mabe it just little i4 . Thanks guys .

There are a lot of (more likely) things that can cause poor idle or sluggish acceleration (like a failing EGR, injectors, dirty O2, clogged fuel filter, dirty TB etc.) besides oil viscosity.

Going from a 20 to a 30 shouldn't be an issue. At best the 150c viscosity is maybe +0.5, which I don't believe is thick enough to starve the engine or cause any measurable increase in heat (maybe at some of the very very tightest clearances). And the 5w is more than adequate for where you're at, it's still going to get pumped up to the top rather quickly.

You got that right. If I could feel that one of my vehicles was sluggish with a 30 grade oil vs. a 20 oil I'd sell it.

Must be Comfortably Numb
smile.gif
 
I always run 10W30 in my Accord. I had some 5W20 laying around hence the reason it's in there now. I'm going back to 10W30 next oil change.
 
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
It's interesting, these thinner oils are being driven by fuel economy standards but as engines age/wear and clearances widen engine efficiency and power output declines (compression loss due to worn rings, valve train wear etc). I wonder if over the life of the engine are these thinner oils actually saving fuel? Sure maybe in the beginning when everything's brand spanking new but would it be wiser for engine mfgs to focus on durability (wear protection) as a way to go to conserve fuel? Nah...they probably just care that they can put a sticker on the NEW car showing high mpg's, so they can meet CAFE.

That same question was addressed in a lubrication magazine around 2005-2010 (I don't remember exactly). I don't remember the publication but it was probably Machinery Lubrication because that's what I read the most. His assessment was inline with yours. Get it on the dyno, make CAFE happy and let the customer and industry worry about it down the road. As it stands, there are no 100k mile follow up fuel economy endurance test's.

I think the problem is going to be the high-strung, turbo charged 4 and 6 cylinders. The thinner oils might squeak by in the bearing area but the ring, liner and piston area can quickly loose boundary lubrication with a little excess heat. Yea, there are FM additives in the oil and this may make our point mute but I swore years ago I wasn't going to be the test rat.

My thinking is yes, the engine will run fine and not die on the side of the road or explode but there is an amount of wear that happens in the power cylinder area that will cause problems down the road. I hear of many owners stating they used Xw20 oil and now at 100k their vehicle uses oil. Then there are owners with a quarter million miles and their vehicle runs fine.
 
So, if Honda says that this engine is best run by whatever grade, YOU know better? Who built the thing?
 
Originally Posted by shrooms
So, if Honda says that this engine is best run by whatever grade, YOU know better? Who built the thing?


well if the government and cafe were not choking the life out of the automobile company's with rapidly increasing average fuel economy numbers i highly doubt any company would recommend a 0w20 or any 20 weight oil
 
Originally Posted by shrooms
So, if Honda says that this engine is best run by whatever grade, YOU know better? Who built the thing?

You're mixing terms..optimal and best are entirely different. Optimal, as far as striking a balance between f/e and wear protection in my car is a 5w20..best, as far as wear protection, is going to be a 5w30 or even 10/30 because of their thicker oil film is going to be best.

Kia's not lying to me (being disingenuous) when they say for optimal fuel efficiency use 5w20 and then in the next paragraph states, for warmer climates or towing using a 5w30 or 10w30 is recommended. Kia is laying (spelling) it out in black and white the reason for the 3 grades. The Kia engine builders know that a SAE20 is going to give me the MOFT to prevent catastrophic wear and a SAE30 is not going to cause flow/drag issues.. anything higher or lower and maybe I'm in trouble, maybe, but as long as I'm in those grades I should be good.. and Kia, unlike Honda it seems, trusts me to pick the proper grade given the operating condition.

Maybe your "issue" is not so much about what I or someone else thinks about Honda's lube recommendation, but maybe why Honda isn't more upfront with you about your lube options???🤔 (Honda knows full well other grades besides the 0w20, will work just fine and maybe even provide better wear protection.. albeit at the [possible] expense of F/E)
 
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Usually when I look at the owner manual . I saw multiple oil grade can be using depend on the weather .

But when it come to this Honda owner manual . It's having single oil grade 0w20

ATM I will run full OCI with this Mobil 1 hm 5w30 and Mobil 1 oil filter . Next oil change I properly give 0w20 Mobil 1 hm a try

Who made 0w20 Dino oil . 0w20 Semi synthetic hm oil ? Or all 0w20 is full synth ?

A48A5F2E-0F05-4CC3-BBA2-9F021AA542B7.png
 
To meet CAFE it has been interperated that the oil grade used in achieving the fuel economy and emissions submittal must be the presented as "Required for optimal fuel economy and emissions".

Try M1 EP 0W20 for a purported real synthetic and its likely good for 10K if you drive at least 70% on the highway.

There are no "conventional" modern passenger car oils. if you look at the bottle remember that
'Conventional' and 'Fully Synthetic' are just marketing terms for the industry per NAD and API
 
It'll be fine. With age, there is wear. 5w-30 won't hurt it. If you can't sleep at night, then get 0w20.
 
If the engine was young and tight, I might suggest going back to 0w20.
At 122,000 miles she is well worn-in so 5w30 will work just fine for the rest of it's natural life.
 
No harm, no foul, no error.
I'd run a 5W-30 in our '12 in a heartbeat with no concerns were I so inclined.
I really think that any perceived sluggishness is in your head.
A 5W is always and everywhere thinner at cold start in Texas than a 0W is in the depths of an Ohio winter and while the jump up a grade may seem like a lot, it really isn't. HTHS viscosity isn't all that much higher in an ILSAC 5W-30 than it is in a 0W-20. You may notice a tiny loss in fuel economy but only if you record it as obsessively as I do.
In short, you've done nothing wrong and may have done things exactly right.
 
Thanks guys . I been busy . Forgot about the oil lol. I leave it at 5w30 for now . I might try 5w20 hm next oil change .or 5w30 hm next time
 
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