Heavy oil RANT!

[BlazerLT]

Guys, things are getting WAY out of control.

What is with everyone telling people to use extra thick oil in their engines all the time.

Example: Honda civic owner comes in asking for good oil.

Answer: You should use a mixtures of 15w50 and 15w40 for good results.

Does anyone GET that thick oils like that are just not required in our engines. All you are doing is starving our top ends of oil flow.

My father's construction company machinery only uses 15w40, why does a 4cyl Nisson small pickup need 50 weight.

It is just getting ridiculous.

[ March 01, 2005, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: BlazerLT ]

 

[buster]

quote:

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Guys, things are getting WAY out of control.

What is with everyone telling people to use extra thick oil in their engines all the time.

Example: Honda civic owner comes in asking for good oil.

Answer: You should use a mixtures of 15w50 and 15w40 for good results.

*** , does anyone GET that thick oils like that are just not required in our engines! All you are doing is starving our top ends of oil flow.

My father's construction company machinery only uses 15w40, why does a 4cyl Nisson small pickup need 50 weight.

It is just getting ridiculous.

---

I'd chose a viscosity based on oil analysis.

Dr.T would run a 100w-200 in Alaska if he could. Actually the 5w-50 he runs might sludge up to that viscosity with that kind of spread.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

On my oil scavenger hunt through various autozones I here the darndest things.

It is hardwired in to many peoples heads that thicker is better. And they absolutely fear low numbers. It goes with the supersized, bigger is better, if a little is good alot must be great, Attitudes.

The discussions are much more reasoned than what you get at a parts counter for example!

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, it would depend on how you use your honda ..and what you expect out of the oil.

Someone wanted an oil recommendation for a Honda in the tropics for a 1 year OCI for 6k miles (10k km) under severe duty. A few said use a 5w-30 ..knowing that most 5w-30 dinos would be 20 weight oils over that mileage/time span ..and most suredly under that service.

Now if the guy had said "I'm cruising at 62 mph for a 50 mile commute in perpetual 70 degree ambient temps ..have no humidity and never see a stop light......"

that would be different.

The lightest oil that will do the job without any sacrifice in protection via degradation over the expected OCI. Sometimes that's a 0w-20 ..sometimes a 20w-50

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlazerLT:

Guys, things are getting WAY out of control.

What is with everyone telling people to use extra thick oil in their engines all the time.

Example: Honda civic owner comes in asking for good oil.

Answer: You should use a mixtures of 15w50 and 15w40 for good results.

Does anyone GET that thick oils like that are just not required in our engines. All you are doing is starving our top ends of oil flow.

My father's construction company machinery only uses 15w40, why does a 4cyl Nisson small pickup need 50 weight.

It is just getting ridiculous.

---

I can't tell if this is serious or not...

but my 87 1.5L civic recommends 10w-40 for most temperatures.

 

[radiometer]

Why does it matter to anyone else if an owner chooses to use a thicker oil? That is a decision we can make if and when we find a higher viscosity works better in our application.

You are, in a sense, where I am when it comes to the very thin oils. I've seen the UOAs. I know they are showing good wear. Yet, I personally will not put them into my cars. I'm sure you've seen the heavier oils show good results and yet you seem to have a problem with our choosing them. In my personal application I went to a 15W-40 and my wear numbers improved and my mpg went up by 3 to 4 miles per gallon. I've posted the UOAs before and after. FP might be having some effect of improving my gasoline economy, but it is for certain the 15W-40 oil didn't hurt it.

I purchased a book listed on this site: How To Select A Motor Oil and Filter for Your Car or Truck by James C. Fitch. He writes that heavier oils provide better wear protection than thinner ones. He does also state that it will reduce fuel economy and lays out that one must consider the higher fuel costs against longer engine life with weightier oils. In my personal case, I do, indeed, have the improved protection as shown by UOA. However, also in my case, my fuel economy went against the expected and improved.

I think it's fine for you to use very thin oil in your vehicle if you prefer. I'd never give it a second thought. I really couldn't care less. At the same time no one should demonstrate being a bit uptight at others of us who don't want to join the CAFE movement, but choose to use what works better in our applications. We've seen enough postings on this site to well understand that manufacturers calling for 20W oils in N.A. are not calling for such thin oils on the same vehicles in other parts of the world.

I'm not going blind here. I've posted UOA before and I've posted UOA after.

I feel completely comfortable with your using the oil of your choice. I also decide for myself and I'm fully comfortable with what I've proven to work better in my application. No one needs to worry about us heavier oil users. We're doing just fine. According to James C. Fritch, we're doing better.

I'm mature enough to know that what works best in my cars is not necessarily what will work better in yours. It suits me just fine for other drivers to use what they prefer to use. But, I won't bow to CAFE.

In the manual for my '02 Nissan Sentra that was just worked on by the dealer I brought up the question of using a 5W-40 oil in it. I pointed out that the manual calls for 5W-30, 10W-30 or a 10W-40. I want to try the Schaeffers 9000 that is now coming out and I talked with the service department about it and my warranty. They, without hesitation told me they felt the 40w would be better for me to use. Also, they said the 5W-40 will be just fine.

Please rest well. I do.

 

[BlazerLT]

The Honda thing was just an example of what I normally hear around here and truthfully, it is getting a little much.

People need to get their head out of their butts when it comes to heavy oils like this.

If the engine calls for 5w30, why are people recommending the person to use a 15w40 for example for better protection? It is just getting retarded.

It is just getting really stupid if you ask me and people need to get the heads in order and stop recommending something that obviously will be starving our top ends for oil at start up.

Besides, when does a 4 banger have a pump that can pump heavy oil without prematurely wearing out.

Alsways use the lowest number for X when you taking in XwYY.

For example, if your engine calls for 10w40, use a 5w40 or even a 0w40, NOT a 20w50.

I have been holding this in for a while and just can't take this crap anymore.

 

[Gary Allan]

You assume that people recommend heavier oils as though they automatically pull it out of their arse.

I can see a bunch of people using a heavier oil as a matter of practice. I don't see a bunch of people here recommending heavier oils out of some preconception of greater protection where none is needed.

If it makes you feel any better (is this possible

) my daughter's 91 Taurus is using 5w-20 MC. My Carvan is using an adapted 30 weight HDEO ..but (there's always a "but") my two jeeps are using 5w-40

Those who use 15w-40 oils don't use synthetics either due to costs or the shortness of the OCI.

How 'bout me ranting????

Letsee ..hmmm(thinking - ah lightbulb)

I think that it's lame that some people here use dino. I mean synths are proven to be worth the money ..so using dino is stup|d in my book. This dino use has just gone too far for me

 

[High Plains Drifter]

In the TSB where Ford changes and back specs from 5w-30 to 5w-20 they state that the change is for improved fuel economy. If you want to believe that Ford/EPA really has BlazetLT’s best interest at heart then go ahead and keep running that stumpwater in your ride. I intend to use something, shall we say, a little more robust….

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlazerLT:
Guys, things are getting WAY out of control.

What is with everyone telling people to use extra thick oil in their engines all the time.

Example: Honda civic owner comes in asking for good oil.

Answer: You should use a mixtures of 15w50 and 15w40 for good results.

My father's construction company machinery only uses 15w40, why does a 4cyl Nisson small pickup need 50 weight.

---

Since when has the number of cylinders or the size of the engine determined it's viscosity needs? We see Ford recommend 5w20 in their 5.4L V8 in NA, and Honda recommend 10w40 in it's 2.35L 4-banger in Australia.

 

[BlazerLT]

Robust?

How is say a 0w40 inferior to 15w40?

 

[Bugshu]

I always use the illustration to the thicker is better crowd that they could put elmers glue in the crankcase and really thicken their lubricants up.

Why does it matter what other people do with their cars .... its because of reputation. If 5 out of 10 Ford owners use 30 viscosity oil instead of 20 and their oil pumps die then you can look for them to fill out the survey cards that consumer reports fills out and bash Ford products for being unreliable. The value of the used cars drops because Consumer reports gives them a black check mark instead of a red one and the next thing you know if Im in an accident and my Ford is totalled then the appraiser (adjuster) gives me less money for my car.

One of my best friends tells me all the time that I dont know oil. Funny that his engine died at 46,000 miles and he has no money because he had to rebuild a tranny a couple months after getting a new engine. My older vehicle is pushing 140K miles and is smoother than silk. But hey I dont know oil.

In the past week I got chewed out by a Cop for suggesting that 20 "Weight" oil wouldnt protect his car during his trip to the mountains as well as good ole 5W-30. His brother was a mechanic in the army so he knows his stuff. Thicker oil protects better in winter.

Hey I was at a Wal-Mart and a quick lube owner was buying them out of supertech oil. Im talking multiple shopping cart loads. He shops them out of inventory 2-3 times per week. He has a Pennzoil sign on his lube shop but he can use supertech because 99% of his customers cant tell the difference. They just assume he uses Pennzoil because the sign says so. If they dont expressly "request" Pennzoil then he gives them the supertech. According to him he recommends 3000 mile oil changes and the supertech is just as good for that interval. Most people cant tell and dont care about the differences between supertech and pennzoil. They just want the oil on the dipstick to look amber.

The people most likely to trade in cars or return leased cars are the same people who take the worst care of them. It really makes you want to buy used knowing the ignorance that exists.

And we wonder why new car depreciation is so steep.

Happy Motoring All,

Bugshu

 

[Bob Miller]

I should think a 5 or 10W-40 would have a film thickness to cover filter limitations for some particle sizes allowed through.

Personally, I ran a 1989 Honda for 220,000 miles on 10W-40 and recently sold it. It burned no oil (yet).
Further, MPG was barely noticably lower, < 1 mpg.

I like the >3.5 HT/HS of 10W-40.

For my new Toyota Corolla, I'll probably continue the use of Valvoline 10w-40 and probably the Maxlife formula.

 

[CMT]

In general, I'm a heavier-is-better guy. I think the trend to light oils is driven by concerns for fuel economy and fuel economy alone. IMO that's just stupid. Sure engineers can design engines that will work OK on these WD-40 -esque oils, but it is sheer insanity that we have EPA tree huggers dictating automotive design. I refuse to sacrifice protection for fuel economy or emissions, so I will always run the heaviest oil I can get away with (limited by either warranty considerations or driving conditions). Just my opinion.

 

[BlazerLT]

quote:

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Originally posted by 427Z06:

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlazerLT:
Guys, things are getting WAY out of control.

What is with everyone telling people to use extra thick oil in their engines all the time.

Example: Honda civic owner comes in asking for good oil.

Answer: You should use a mixtures of 15w50 and 15w40 for good results.

My father's construction company machinery only uses 15w40, why does a 4cyl Nisson small pickup need 50 weight.

---

Since when has the number of cylinders or the size of the engine determined it's viscosity needs? We see Ford recommend 5w20 in their 5.4L V8 in NA, and Honda recommend 10w40 in it's 2.35L 4-banger in Australia.

---

You are not getting my point, when an engine calls for say 5w30, you see people recommending a 15w40 for example amd claim it will protect their engine better.

 

[TomH]

quote:

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Originally posted by BlazerLT:
The Honda thing was just an example of what I normally hear around here and truthfully, it is getting a little much.

People need to get their head out of their butts when it comes to heavy oils like this.

If the engine calls for 5w30, why are people recommending the person to use a 15w40 for example for better protection? It is just getting retarded.

It is just getting really stupid if you ask me and people need to get the heads in order and stop recommending something that obviously will be starving our top ends for oil at start up.

Besides, when does a 4 banger have a pump that can pump heavy oil without prematurely wearing out.

Alsways use the lowest number for X when you taking in XwYY.

For example, if your engine calls for 10w40, use a 5w40 or even a 0w40, NOT a 20w50.

I have been holding this in for a while and just can't take this crap anymore.

---

Manufacturers recommendations are just that.....recommendations, not hardfast rules. I would have NO problem suggesting someone using a 10W30 in a vehicle that was recommended for 5W30, or even 5W20, depending on the conditions the engine will be used in.

I for one would NEVER use a 20W50 in anything other than 20+ year old oil burner, and would even have reservations about that. But I also am not sold on these "water thin" oils either, be it 0W20, 5W20, etc. You can't tell me that a xW20 will provide as good engine protection as a 10W30 under the same conditions, I ain't buyin' it, call me old fashioned if you want!

Add to the fact that EVERY engine is different, even the same engine built at the same plant, there are going to be slight manufacturing differences in each one. So all these "UOAs" that I read about on here, for me, are meaningless. I'll continue to use whats been working for me for years and years. Just my 2 cents!

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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You are not getting my point, when an engine calls for say 5w30, you see people recommending a 15w40 for example amd claim it will protect their engine better.

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Would you care to link to examples of a 15w-40 recommendation that wasn't bracketed by some extenuating circumstance where a 5w-20 or 5w-30 was recommended?

 

[BlazerLT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:

quote:

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You are not getting my point, when an engine calls for say 5w30, you see people recommending a 15w40 for example amd claim it will protect their engine better.

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Would you care to link to examples of a 15w-40 recommendation that wasn't bracketed by some extenuating circumstance where a 5w-20 or 5w-30 was recommended?

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Ok, don't start going there, read the car oil section and you can see many examples of unnecessarily heavy oil is being used.

I am not starting a fight.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Ok, don't start going there

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Why not??

(visions of Bill C as Hillary comes and slaps him in Jib:Jab "what'd I do

" )

quote:

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I am not starting a fight.

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You could have fooled me.

I really don't see it. I've really never seen a recommendation for a heavy weight without some type of justification. Now some have said "I use straight STP and have had no issues with it" type stuff. Some recommend it for a severe situation ..or in an attempt to relieve some engine that appears to fatigue lighter weight oil in consumption ...but I don't see anyone just telling someone to go ahead and swap out a perfectly functional 30 weight for a 40 weight for no good reason.

There would be no justification for it.

"Hi! You've got no consumption ..no excessive wear ..your TBN and viscosity hold up fine??? No oil pressure problems???

You definitely need heavier oil!!!!

This just doesn't happen here.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by BlazerLT:

If the engine calls for 5w30, why are people recommending the person to use a 15w40 for example for better protection? It is just getting retarded.

For example, if your engine calls for 10w40, use a 5w40 or even a 0w40, NOT a 20w50.

I have been holding this in for a while and just can't take this crap anymore.

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What makes you such an expert? I think even the very knowledgable experts on here can't say stuff like that.

Why does everything that you don't agree with have to be lies or retarded?

-T

[ March 01, 2005, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: T-Keith ]