Good oils for cleaning up a motor?
- Thread starter bluedevils
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Used that too before I learnt better from this board. Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole now!
sprintman, what's the consensus on the magnatec on the board ?
I spent a few interesting beers with an ex Castrol additive chemist about a year ago (he'd gone to work for the Wynns joint venture refinery at Wagga).
He reckoned that it was top flight stuff, and the residual left on the walls improved their before and after "comparison" oil, Mobil 1 5W-50.
I spent a few interesting beers with an ex Castrol additive chemist about a year ago (he'd gone to work for the Wynns joint venture refinery at Wagga).
He reckoned that it was top flight stuff, and the residual left on the walls improved their before and after "comparison" oil, Mobil 1 5W-50.
No mention of Magnatec apart from us two. I think it's available in Europe, not sure about U.S or Canada. You'll see a general low regard for Castrol here because of the Group III synthetic deal. GTX has some strong supporters though, but may be different formulation than the Oz version. I did use Magnatec 5W40 (now a 10W40) after it's release in my Mazda turbo but should have listened to my mechanic. He always said "Castrol OK for grease and gear oils, Mobil for engine oils". Well yes sort of. IMO you could do better than Magnatec but definitely one I'd like to see a Dyson analysis on.
Bluedevils, I'm going to preach here for a moment; move a little closer to the Monitor brothers and sisters. Close enough to place your hands on the monitor to feel the power of lubrication theory ! Uh, at least mine.
Motor Oils are designed to lubricate and safely disburse unfiltered contaminates for a design period of time. NOT clean microscopic layers of carbonacous deposits. If that oil chemically attempts to clean it will not lubricate and disburse properly resulting in poor lubrication function and increased wear.
Yes the high end group 5 oils and ester adds will clean for a while,due to the natural solvency of the esters. None of the others will clean to enough of an extent to make the difference that you are asking about.
Auto- RX does clean safely and effectively,and guarantees to be safe.
Note Frank Miller is sick with Cancer and is very knowledgable about RX but is not a mechanic or tribologist. Don't sweat his comments about syns as some here have, the Auto-Rx product works well.
Nuetra cleans but I have not tested it to confirm it ( I have a tremendous amount of respect for Bob Winters and Schaeffers to trust them on this, although I question its lubricity during cleaning),Molekule could answer questions as to the safety and effectiveness of the nuetra formula.
Lube Control will clean as it is a Bad *** solvent that is inhibited for lubricity and must be used systematically.
I was paid to test this like Auto-RX and have become more comfortable with its use while we continue to test it in field trial engines.
NO boys and girls I still don't "like" strong nasty solvents. This product is more of a stabilizer than a cleaner but can be used as a effective cleaner. It does have to be recharged every 1000 miles or so ( 1 to 2 oz.s) as the solvency degrades with use. This product has been hidden/shelved for years because the oil companies have no interest in eliminating oxidation making average oils last extended drains. Odis Beaver, Lube Controls owner is a lot like Frank Miller and is fighting to keep his product afloat.
Other products will clean and subsequently damage the metals and seals while cleaning.
These are three that may help you in finding that magic bullet to eliminate tearing down the engine to clean it.
Even a new low mileage engine that has been run on a synthetic oil will begin losing efficiency at the high temp/high heat areas that over time will build up and need to be cleaned to run as designed.
That mileage and time will be as variable as the operating conditions the engine experiences.
So I like the idea of periodically cleaning so my oil works as a lubricant not cooking off in a feeble attempt to clean.
Disclaimer; I don't sell any of these products but I trust them.
And now please place your hands on the monitor as we close with prayer.
Motor Oils are designed to lubricate and safely disburse unfiltered contaminates for a design period of time. NOT clean microscopic layers of carbonacous deposits. If that oil chemically attempts to clean it will not lubricate and disburse properly resulting in poor lubrication function and increased wear.
Yes the high end group 5 oils and ester adds will clean for a while,due to the natural solvency of the esters. None of the others will clean to enough of an extent to make the difference that you are asking about.
Auto- RX does clean safely and effectively,and guarantees to be safe.
Note Frank Miller is sick with Cancer and is very knowledgable about RX but is not a mechanic or tribologist. Don't sweat his comments about syns as some here have, the Auto-Rx product works well.
Nuetra cleans but I have not tested it to confirm it ( I have a tremendous amount of respect for Bob Winters and Schaeffers to trust them on this, although I question its lubricity during cleaning),Molekule could answer questions as to the safety and effectiveness of the nuetra formula.
Lube Control will clean as it is a Bad *** solvent that is inhibited for lubricity and must be used systematically.
I was paid to test this like Auto-RX and have become more comfortable with its use while we continue to test it in field trial engines.
NO boys and girls I still don't "like" strong nasty solvents. This product is more of a stabilizer than a cleaner but can be used as a effective cleaner. It does have to be recharged every 1000 miles or so ( 1 to 2 oz.s) as the solvency degrades with use. This product has been hidden/shelved for years because the oil companies have no interest in eliminating oxidation making average oils last extended drains. Odis Beaver, Lube Controls owner is a lot like Frank Miller and is fighting to keep his product afloat.
Other products will clean and subsequently damage the metals and seals while cleaning.
These are three that may help you in finding that magic bullet to eliminate tearing down the engine to clean it.
Even a new low mileage engine that has been run on a synthetic oil will begin losing efficiency at the high temp/high heat areas that over time will build up and need to be cleaned to run as designed.
That mileage and time will be as variable as the operating conditions the engine experiences.
So I like the idea of periodically cleaning so my oil works as a lubricant not cooking off in a feeble attempt to clean.
Disclaimer; I don't sell any of these products but I trust them.
And now please place your hands on the monitor as we close with prayer.
Is there anything mechanically wrong with your truck that might be causing the burning of oil?
I'm not sure. I haven't checked out too much on my own yet, nor have I had a shop look it over.
I have no reason to believe that anything is wrong mechanically, other than the increasing consumption rate. Truck seems to be running fine, fuel economy is okay, etc.
[ January 01, 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: bluedevils ]
Patman
Staff member
Actually, this is the best way to do it! Supposedly Auto-rx works best with a hot engine, so if you're doing more highway driving, you spend more time with the engine fully warmed up. It certainly is better than doing a 500 mile treatment that consisted of 20 or 30 cold starts.
Great, then it should work well in my situation. On another Toyota forum, I really hear a majority of people claim you don't need a cleaner if your using a good synthetic like M1 or Amsoil. I know they help keep the engine clean, but after reading most of all the posts relating to this subject, Auto-rx will still do a better job and won't cause any damage. Patman, are you planning on running Rx in your probe with 135k on it? I believe you said it was dirty even from using M1.
Patman
Staff member
I might just try running Neutra in my mom's Probe instead of the Auto-rx. It's not that I doubt Auto-rx, just that I only have about 9oz left of it, and I'll probably use that for maintenance doses in my car, and I have an entire case of Neutra coming to me any day now.
MolaKule
Staff member
Nick,
Redline, Mobil 1, Amsoil, RPPL, and Neo all contain esters of varying types and proportions, along with PAO's.
Mobil 1 uses a mix of esters,
Amsoil uses TMP esters,
NEO uses di-esters,
Redline uses PE esters; different ester for different formulations. Not sure about about RPPL, since I have not used, tested, or analyzed their product.
No oil by itself will clean a "gunked-up" engine, not even the diesel oils.
Auto-RX, Neutra, and LC will all remove the sludge and other carbonaceous materials.
Bob posted the summarized test results of LC if you want to investigate the treatment rate and usage of LC as a cleaner.
Redline, Mobil 1, Amsoil, RPPL, and Neo all contain esters of varying types and proportions, along with PAO's.
Mobil 1 uses a mix of esters,
Amsoil uses TMP esters,
NEO uses di-esters,
Redline uses PE esters; different ester for different formulations. Not sure about about RPPL, since I have not used, tested, or analyzed their product.
No oil by itself will clean a "gunked-up" engine, not even the diesel oils.
Auto-RX, Neutra, and LC will all remove the sludge and other carbonaceous materials.
Bob posted the summarized test results of LC if you want to investigate the treatment rate and usage of LC as a cleaner.
MolaKule
Staff member
"Molekule could answer questions as to the safety and effectiveness of the nuetra formula."
For cleaning the real tough sludge, carbon, and varnish problems quickly, I use a two-step flushing process (I'm impatient).
I use Neutra (with cheap dino oil) as a pre-soak since it is thinner than Lube Control. I prefer to soak the valve train and valve covers with pure Neutra (engine not running), placing about 1 quart total on the valve train (let soak for about 2 hours or more), then running the engine for about 10 minutes (outside, of course), then draining the oil and changing filter. Neutra is a stinky ester, but fairly safe as long as the vapors are not inhaled (as with most cleaners).
I then follow-up with 16 oz. of Lube Control, running the engine for 20 more mintues (with new cheap dino oil and SuperTech filter) to remove the thicker and more stubborn carbon deposits. I then drain the oil and filter to my pet oil and filter.
This has worked well in my '92 Burb, and in various tractors, both gas and diesel.
As with any cleaner, wear gloves and avoid exhaust vapors.
If you want a long-term cleaner, use Auto-RX. The natural and synthetic organic esters in ARX act over the long term.
For cleaning the real tough sludge, carbon, and varnish problems quickly, I use a two-step flushing process (I'm impatient).
I use Neutra (with cheap dino oil) as a pre-soak since it is thinner than Lube Control. I prefer to soak the valve train and valve covers with pure Neutra (engine not running), placing about 1 quart total on the valve train (let soak for about 2 hours or more), then running the engine for about 10 minutes (outside, of course), then draining the oil and changing filter. Neutra is a stinky ester, but fairly safe as long as the vapors are not inhaled (as with most cleaners).
I then follow-up with 16 oz. of Lube Control, running the engine for 20 more mintues (with new cheap dino oil and SuperTech filter) to remove the thicker and more stubborn carbon deposits. I then drain the oil and filter to my pet oil and filter.
This has worked well in my '92 Burb, and in various tractors, both gas and diesel.
As with any cleaner, wear gloves and avoid exhaust vapors.
If you want a long-term cleaner, use Auto-RX. The natural and synthetic organic esters in ARX act over the long term.
I ordered Auto-rx after reading about what you said above and not being able to find Delvac. I plan on adding Autorx to a cheap dino and running it in one weekend. On my trips to NY, the round trip comes to 500+ miles. (all highway) Is this as effective as normal driving?
I have now placed Neutra in three engines (in crankcase). My latest was a 96 4 cyl with 75,000 total miles and been on Amsoil since 30,000. Engine looked clean as new but I decided to treat anyway.. I drained the oil this week and was very surprised to find debris in the drain pan I use, not much, but several rather large pieces. I cut open the K&N filter and (very well constructed by the way) the media did not have many of these same particles in it as the drain pan. Not sure what is happening, beginning to think all filters are pretty much useless in capturing particles.
Anyway, Neutra does indeed work in cleaning however, in another very abused enigne I tried it on it resulted in a huge amount of debris in the oil drain pan but did not clean up the varnish and overall dirty looking mess as seen via the oil filler neck. Perhaps too dirty for one treatment. A unbelievable amount of debris from that usage but again it was not captured in the filter media. Just floating in the oil and sank to the bottom of the drain pan.
Spector, the pickup screen is probably responsible.
This is a classic danger to "flushes" on old engines. If the screen plugs, there goes pressure and your engine. Neutra and arx are supposed to be gentle and not create a tidalwave of crud, but how dirty was the engine?...
David
This is a classic danger to "flushes" on old engines. If the screen plugs, there goes pressure and your engine. Neutra and arx are supposed to be gentle and not create a tidalwave of crud, but how dirty was the engine?...
David
Spector, exactly why Auto-RX was developed over other type cleaners. Slow and easy no big chunks.
Onequart is correct the oil pump pickup screen "pre" filters the oil from the sump.
I have not heard of Nuetra allowing that until your post. The newer car doesn't bother me but the
heavily sludged older engine does.
I wonder if RX should be used prior to using the stronger cleaners to minimize the chunks. I know that F Miller warned about that.
Onequart is correct the oil pump pickup screen "pre" filters the oil from the sump.
I have not heard of Nuetra allowing that until your post. The newer car doesn't bother me but the
heavily sludged older engine does.
I wonder if RX should be used prior to using the stronger cleaners to minimize the chunks. I know that F Miller warned about that.
I just received Auto-Rx today and am glad I read this post. Should you take off the oil pan when draining after using RX? I was just going to drain the oil and change the oil/filter. I was going to use a Proline filter from pepboys but it looks like it is made by Puralator. I am a bit skeptical on using this if chunks are going to break off. Most likely my engine doenst have this problem bc of the sythetic oils i've used since 18K miles. I now have 102K. Delvac is the safest option, but most likely won't do the job RX will. I might use a Fram or Motorcraft filter.....
[ January 02, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
[ January 02, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
I'm new to this board and appreciate the wealth of information here. Thanks! Now back to topic.
Which part of the engine needs to be cleaned to decrease oil consumption? I would suspect the rings, right? Is the Delvac oil good at getting carbon out of the ring area? Or would the Auto-Rx stuff work the best? I have a Northstar with excessive oil consumption (DUH). General consensus is that the rings are stuck in their grooves. What would be the best way to get the ring area cleaned up? Where can I buy Auto-Rx?
Which part of the engine needs to be cleaned to decrease oil consumption? I would suspect the rings, right? Is the Delvac oil good at getting carbon out of the ring area? Or would the Auto-Rx stuff work the best? I have a Northstar with excessive oil consumption (DUH). General consensus is that the rings are stuck in their grooves. What would be the best way to get the ring area cleaned up? Where can I buy Auto-Rx?
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