Good oils for cleaning up a motor?

Messages
77
Location
Detroit MI USA
Disclaimer: Yes, I've spent time searching earlier posts... What oils are good for cleaning up a motor? The 3.5L V6 in my Trooper has 75k miles and presumably lots of carbon buildup due to high oil consumption. I've always run 5W30 (went from dino to to synth blend to Mobil 1 Tri-Synth back to dino) which I'm sure hasn't helped the consumption. I bought some Delvac 1300 15W40 tonight and plan to run it for 1,000 miles then change it out and possibly run it again. Any suggestions?
 
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
If AutoRx works as advertised, it would probably be a much easier and more effective way to clean deposits from your engine. Do a search for AutoRx and read about it.
 

bluedevils

Thread starter
Messages
77
Location
Detroit MI USA
XHVI, I have been reading about it the past few days. Sounds like an impressive product. I can't really explain why, but I'd rather just change to a high-detergent oil instead of dropping in Auto-RX and diligently following the procedures associated with this apparently excellent product. I'm also not too keen on spending $20 a bottle for this stuff. Even if it works as advertised, which I believe it does, that's a steep price. C'mon - humor me. Can't somebody give some recommendations on specific oils that will help clean up a gasoline motor? [ December 20, 2002, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: bluedevils ]
 

Jay

Messages
1,607
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
Redline, Motul Ester E-tech oils, or Neo all have a high percentage of esters or are 100% ester basestocks. Any one of them should clean your engine fairly well, but they're very expensive.
 
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by bluedevils: C'mon - humor me. Can't somebody give some recommendations on specific oils that will help clean up a gasoline motor?
Any HD diesel/fleet oil that carries both the gasoline (SL) and diesel (CI-4/CH-4) rating. Examples: Delo 400, Delvac 1300, Delvac 1, Rotella T, Rotella T Synthetic. However, if you've got significant deposits in your engine, especially varnish, it's unlikely that these oils would get your engine spotless, even over the course of several years and tens of thousands of miles.
 
Messages
874
Location
Pacific NW
Blue, it's been discussed here a bit that lubrication and cleansing are somewhat at odds. (Keeping in mind that preventing deposits is different from removing existing deposits.) Some additive packages do a better job, and certainly, ester based synths are naturally better at it than some others. As has been said, the strongest detergents are in oils designed for diesels. Some of those work fine in gasoline engines too, if the viscosity works for you. Products like Delo 400, Delvac, etc. Look back for discussions about "detergent delo" here and in the additives forum and you'll find more information. Also, check your plugs to get a clue about actual carbon buildup. It might not be as bad as you think. Some oils are worse than others. I had one vehicle that drank M1 trisyn 10W30 badly the first few thousand miles, dropping to a few ounces/3K. Even the high early consumption didn't show up in the cylinders. (neither plugs nor borescope looked bad) [I dont know] I stopped checking when the consumption dropped. While I'm bouncing between topics... check out Schaeffer's Neutra as a cleanser. Much less expensive than most others and it's quite effective without sending carbon boulders through your bearings. David
 

bluedevils

Thread starter
Messages
77
Location
Detroit MI USA
Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I'll check the plugs as soon as I can. I'm not sure what kind of junk, if anything, might be in the engine. With conventional SJ or synth blend SJ, I never went more than 4000 miles. With Mobil 1 Tri-Synth SJ, I never went more than 6000 miles with an additional filter change halfway. Air filter is changed regularly, etc. I've taken decent care of the engine, so it shouldn't be very dirty, except I've heard that an engine consuming lots of oil probably has significant carbon buildup. Even if that's true, I don't know if carbon buildup would translate into 'varnish' or what. Is Delvac 1300 15W40 a good choice in a gasoline engine that I expect/hope to run 200,000+ miles? I'm not sure if it will pump well enough during winter here in SE Michigan (typical low temp 10-20 F; rarely below 0 F).
 
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by bluedevils: Is Delvac 1300 15W40 a good choice in a gasoline engine that I expect/hope to run 200,000+ miles? I'm not sure if it will pump well enough during winter here in SE Michigan (typical low temp 10-20 F; rarely below 0 F).
Hmmm...I'd use a synthetic. Delvac 1 or Rotella T Synthetic. Both of these are 5w40 and have pour points lower than -40*C.
 

bluedevils

Thread starter
Messages
77
Location
Detroit MI USA
XHVI, I just spent a few minutes reading through some threads in which you discussed the Rotella T Synthetic, particularly the one in which you described how Rotella T can claim to be a true synthetic even though it's not Group IV. I certainly didn't understand much of the technical stuff, but I still feel like I learned something - that the Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 is a very good oil and probably well worth the $12.83 a gallon Wal-Mart price. Do you think oil consumption would likely decrease if I was running this oil? How dirty do you think the engine in my Trooper is? I'm hoping to find an oil that will both clean up the engine and reduce the oil consumption. And I'm reluctant to spend $2 or more a quart if the engine is still going to consume lots of oil. I'm sure a 5W40 synthetic (I'm including Rotella T among 'synthetics') would flow better in the cold than any 15W40 oil, including the Delvac 1300 dino I just bought. But how good/bad do you think the Delvac 1300 would flow in the 0 to 30 F range? [ December 20, 2002, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: bluedevils ]
 
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by bluedevils: Do you think oil consumption would likely decrease if I was running this oil? How dirty do you think the engine in my Trooper is? ... I'm sure a 5W40 synthetic (I'm including Rotella T among 'synthetics') would flow better in the cold than any 15W40 oil, including the Delvac 1300 dino I just bought. But how good/bad do you think the Delvac 1300 would flow in the 0 to 30 F range?
It's hard to say about oil consumption because there are so many factors that can cause it. I can only tell you that my van has about 3000 miles on its first use of Rotell T Syn and the level on the dipstick hasn't moved. (But it never used any Mobil 1 either.) How dirty do I think your engine is? I have no way of knowing, but if you've used good oils and changed them regularly, it should be fairly clean. As for cold temp performance, it's not really a question of how bad the 15w40 oils will do, it's the fact that the 5w40 syns will ALWAYS flow better in the cold, especially in sub-freezing weather. And when it comes to engine wear, you want an oil that's going to get flowing quicker. For what it's worth, if I lived where you live, I wouldn't even consider using a 15w40 oil unless my car was parked in a heated garage every night. (And I probably wouldn't even use it then.) I don't know about the other HD oils, but regular Rotella T is available in 10w30. If you don't want to pay the extra $$ for a HD syn, using this weight Rotella T may be an option for you.
 

bluedevils

Thread starter
Messages
77
Location
Detroit MI USA
XHVI - "How dirty do I think your engine is? I have no way of knowing, but if you've used good oils and changed them regularly, it should be fairly clean." In my view I've used good oils (Castrol GTX and Syntec Blend, Valvoline Durablend, Mobil 1 Tri-Synth, and SL Citgo SuperGard). Change intervals always pretty conservative. Good filters (usually PureOne). Do you think the engine may be fairly clean even considering the high oil consumption? I'm starting to think it's nuts to run a 15W40 here in the winter months, but I like the idea of the Delvac cleaning up the motor. Who knows. Maybe I'll return the Delvac to Wal-Mart and trade up on some 5W40 Rotella T Synthetic. I presume you think the Rotella Syn is a good-cleaning oil?
 
Messages
2,480
I think short of cleaning agents (eg. Auto-Rx., etc.) the best "cleaning" oil would have to be Delvac 1. It is a high detergent PAO diesel-geared high-drain synthetic which will clean and hold a ton of crap in suspension. I've used it and it turned black after about 5k mi. with noticeable cleaning in the area immediately under the oil filler cap. Furthermore, remember that consumption will INCREASE as it cleans things out (don't know if this can be classified as "a good thing"). Don't know when "flow" got into the discussion...and can't say whether these oils will clean as well as eg. auto-rx given adequate time and mi. to work. Another question....do these things "clean" only when the engine is running or also when the car is parked???
 
Messages
238
Location
Monterey Park, CA
Heat causes oxidation and changes the color of the oil. Next time you change your oil, stick your finger in the drain hole after all the oil has been drained out, and see if there are any large flakes of carbon that you can pull out. Might have disloged them.
 

bluedevils

Thread starter
Messages
77
Location
Detroit MI USA
Changed oil with Delvac 1300 15W40 tonight. I'm hoping this oil will help to clean things up in the engine and am hoping to see significantly reduced oil consumption as well. I plan to replace the filter in a thousand miles or so and top off the oil level. I may run the 2nd filter another thousand miles and change the filter again. Does that sound like an okay plan? I'm assuming the Delvac 1300 will be working well for at least 2000-3000 miles in normal duty (no towing, some city/some highway) and cold weather.
 
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by bluedevils: I'm starting to think it's nuts to run a 15W40 here in the winter months, but I like the idea of the Delvac cleaning up the motor. Who knows. Maybe I'll return the Delvac to Wal-Mart and trade up on some 5W40 Rotella T Synthetic. I presume you think the Rotella Syn is a good-cleaning oil?
Yes, I think it's a good cleaning oil. A good indication of how effectively an oil is putting stuff in suspension is how quickly it turns dark after you put it in the engine. Even though I used Mobil 1 previously in my van, the Rotella T Syn turned darker much quicker than Mobil 1 usually did, and now at 3000 miles it appears darker on the dipstick than I ever remember Mobil 1 being, even after 6000 miles. This tells me that there was "something" in my engine that the Rotella has cleaned up.
 
Messages
485
Location
Montgomery, AL
BlueDevil, Your thread got me thinking. I've since read the 9,000 miles on Schaeffers with Lube Control and the Bobistheoilguy article on ISO-Syn. I'm not a chemist, but I'm starting to think that oil is just not that good at cleaning the engine. In fact, SL oils are meant to be more stable for longer drain intervals (which means the least sophisticated SL oils are probably worse at cleaning than older formulations with more aromatic oils). I hope the diesel oils are good enough for some cleaning. My bet would be on the most expensive like Delvac. Disclaimer: I think the esters in the most expensive oils are the best at cleaning. That said--Products like Schaeffer Neutra are relatively cheap and are proven to clean. I would rather my oil lubricate and add neutra when I want to clean. I've been quoted a price of $17 on a gallon from Tim Mills. #292 NEUTRA PURGING FLUID Neutra Purging Fluid is a highly concentrated ashless fluid that is specially formulated to gently clean and purge equipment of varnish and carbon deposits. Directions For Use: Gas and Diesel Engines, Fluid Powered Transmissions, Differentials Use one ounce of Neutra Purging Fluid to every quart of engine oil. Run the engine for 500 miles or for 4 to 12 hours prior to changeout. Gear Boxes, Hydraulic Systems, Air Compressors During the last 25-50 hours prior to changeout use the following ratios of Neutra Purging Fluid: 1 ounce to every 1 quart of lubricant 4 ounces to every 1 gallon of lubricant Pardon the run on...I'm drinking too much coffee this morning. [Coffee] [Cheers!] [ December 21, 2002, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]
 
Messages
11
Location
Istanbul, Turkey
Well, I know you don't want to use additives... I used the CD-2 oil detergent on my 84 Chev. 2.8 V6 at ~120K miles. Since I'm not a professional I don't know what this should give but engine is now noticably quieter, especially at the 65+ mph speeds. Quietness also noticable at the idle but particularly better at the high speeds. Somewhat more peppy at the high speeds (and this could be just my psychology because of the quieter engine). Anyway, CD2 is cheap. Originally I bought it because I was thinking that the hydraulic valve lifters might be restricted. There are some opinions on this site about the CD2.
 
Messages
33,974
Location
Southern NJ
After talking to 5 different Toyota dealers, and a few mechanics, there is no reason to use Engine cleaners if your running a good synthetic like Mobil 1 or Amsoil. They will do the job just fine. I was told to stay away from these products. They can harm your engine and make things worse in some cases. In talking to the guy at AutoRx, he didn't seem to know what he was talking about. There are so many products out there that are just gimmicks. [ December 21, 2002, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
Top