Are there any negatives in i.e., mixing M1 that is relatively high in PAO with Redline that is realtively high in esters to get the best of both worlds? Can this be done safely without any conflict in the base oils or additive packages?
Good oils for cleaning up a motor?
- Thread starter bluedevils
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LOL
What makes you think the dealership guys know what they're talking about? My recommendation is to ask Bobistheoilguy to explain, again, how even very good mechanics often have little understanding of what oils do in the crankcase. They also don't want any liability for any damage if things go wrong. Its easiest for them to say, in a deep voice, "Ahem...make sure you use short intervals and synthetic oils." Also, look at some of Terry Dyson's posts on the subject, he does oil testing.
Disclaimer: I am a satisfied Auto-Rx customer.
I think after testing it that AutoRX is an excellent product for cleaning up motors that have been poorly maintained with petroleum oils ....You may have to run two bottles through the system, but for $50.00 you are actually getting a motor that is as clean as you can get it without a complete teardown ....
If Bob would send me a free sample of Neutra 131as a XMas gift
... I'd be glad to test it as well and provide my professional evaluation. I have a friend that just got a 1981 Ford pickup - with the 300ci straight six - that should be an excellent candidate. I can hear the valve lifters from 100 yards away!
TooSlick
If Bob would send me a free sample of Neutra 131as a XMas gift
TooSlick
nick778,
I wouldn't mix different brands. You're OK mixing different types from the same company (eg, dino, syn, gas, diesel), but stay within that one company. I'm not a chemist, so I can't give you the reasons why, but I'm sure others here can.
bluedevils,
I know you've already done the change, but I'm a little confused about your plan. I know you don't want to use a dedicated cleaning product, but you can't say why. I know price is a concern. I'm assuming whatever impact a "catastrophic cleansing" might have on your engine is a concern.
I was wondering why you won't get a cleaning product, but expect a diesel oil to clean your engine in just a couple thousand miles? This may be initially less expensive, but certainly no less hassle. And since I'd expect it to take much longer, I question whether it will end up costing any less when you're all done.
I think some of the other suggestions of using a long-life syn like Delvac 1 or Rotella would have been a better solution. They've got a better viscosity range for your application, they've got better stability, you could keep the oil in there for 10k miles (easily with the Delvac 1), & you could change filters every 2k-5k miles. That way, you're letting it stay in there long enough to actually do something. Obviously, you can still go that route. I just don't see your current plan as being effective for your goal of cleaning your engine.
But maybe I'm way off base here. Anybody else (besides what XHVI & OneQuartLow have pointed out) have a feeling for how long it'll take to do what a flush would?
I wouldn't mix different brands. You're OK mixing different types from the same company (eg, dino, syn, gas, diesel), but stay within that one company. I'm not a chemist, so I can't give you the reasons why, but I'm sure others here can.
bluedevils,
I know you've already done the change, but I'm a little confused about your plan. I know you don't want to use a dedicated cleaning product, but you can't say why. I know price is a concern. I'm assuming whatever impact a "catastrophic cleansing" might have on your engine is a concern.
I was wondering why you won't get a cleaning product, but expect a diesel oil to clean your engine in just a couple thousand miles? This may be initially less expensive, but certainly no less hassle. And since I'd expect it to take much longer, I question whether it will end up costing any less when you're all done.
I think some of the other suggestions of using a long-life syn like Delvac 1 or Rotella would have been a better solution. They've got a better viscosity range for your application, they've got better stability, you could keep the oil in there for 10k miles (easily with the Delvac 1), & you could change filters every 2k-5k miles. That way, you're letting it stay in there long enough to actually do something. Obviously, you can still go that route. I just don't see your current plan as being effective for your goal of cleaning your engine.
But maybe I'm way off base here. Anybody else (besides what XHVI & OneQuartLow have pointed out) have a feeling for how long it'll take to do what a flush would?
What I was saying is that if you use a good synthetic, you MOST likel don't need an engine flush. Like GNC, there are so many products that are just money makers and do little good. I'm not disputing what Auto-rx does, but Frank told me he would never use a synthetic in a Toyota. That is something to laugh about my friend. In fact it is almost ridiculous bc if anything, Toyota sludge monsters need synthetic. Keep wasting your money. Some dealers do know what they are talking about. They use products and serve many customers so the sample size is much larger...so don't knock all dealers!
[ December 23, 2002, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
[ December 23, 2002, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
Interesting he would say this. Could it be because his product is designed to work with Dino oil, that he would run dino so he could apply Auto-rx in maintainence doses? I aggree synthteic is better in the Toyota, that's what I use in mine. I will probably run Auto-rx at some point in the future on this vehicle, maybe at the next oil change.
I'm not sure. I really think he just doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to toyotas. He is a nice guy, but it makes absolutely NO sense to say that. My personal opinion is that if you are using a synthetic like M1 or Amsoil, there is no need for this stuff. I truly believe it is not necessary. Synthetics keep your engine clean. I constantly hear bad things about engine flushes (not Auto RX). If you run dino and dont change it often then I would recommend it, otherwise it's just another "cure all" product.
Auto-Rx will work with either Syn or dino oil. The Auto-Rx may have to compete for space with the use of synthetic, but it will do it's job. I used it in my 95 with Amsoil 15W40 synthetic and it worked just fine. It will work as a maintenance dose in either type oil also.
When you are trying to stop a leak, this seems to happen faster if you change to dino oil after the Auto-Rx clean. This is expained on the Auto-Rx site better than I can.
My friend has 3 suspect Toyota engines. When he got his letter from Toyota, no mention of using synthetic oil to extend his warranty. So dino oil will work, just use 3K changes. Kind of like the 5W20 oil in a Ford V-10. Works great and analysis prove it.
When you are trying to stop a leak, this seems to happen faster if you change to dino oil after the Auto-Rx clean. This is expained on the Auto-Rx site better than I can.
My friend has 3 suspect Toyota engines. When he got his letter from Toyota, no mention of using synthetic oil to extend his warranty. So dino oil will work, just use 3K changes. Kind of like the 5W20 oil in a Ford V-10. Works great and analysis prove it.
Buster,
I must respectfully disagree. The Camry V6 is cooking and chewing up oil so bad the Nitration is 50% by 6K. This eventually leads to oxidation and premature oil death. I think Frank sees synthetic oil additives/detergency being used up almost as fast as a Dino's in that environment and feels its not worth the extra money.
My hunch is the oil's solvency is being used up in that time. Your engine starts getting abused when the oil can't suspend contaminants anymore, Dino or Synthetic. Lube control, Auto-Rx, or Neutra will help.
I will run my next drain interval with 4 oz. of Neutra added at 3K and 5K and post the results.
[ December 23, 2002, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]
I must respectfully disagree. The Camry V6 is cooking and chewing up oil so bad the Nitration is 50% by 6K. This eventually leads to oxidation and premature oil death. I think Frank sees synthetic oil additives/detergency being used up almost as fast as a Dino's in that environment and feels its not worth the extra money.
My hunch is the oil's solvency is being used up in that time. Your engine starts getting abused when the oil can't suspend contaminants anymore, Dino or Synthetic. Lube control, Auto-Rx, or Neutra will help.
I will run my next drain interval with 4 oz. of Neutra added at 3K and 5K and post the results.
[ December 23, 2002, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]
You might be right about the Camry V6, but that is a rare exception. I think a well maintained engine running synthetic oil and changing it within 10K or so miles will stay very clean. As you know, these oils are sludge resistant, so why do you think it is necessary to use Auto RX? Especially when using Amsoil/M1??
Wouldn't it make sense for AutoRx to want people to use Dino oils that are more prone to sludge? They won't have any business if everyone used synthetic oil.
[ December 23, 2002, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
Wouldn't it make sense for AutoRx to want people to use Dino oils that are more prone to sludge? They won't have any business if everyone used synthetic oil.
[ December 23, 2002, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
Buster
You might be overstating the effectiveness of M1 keeping an engine clean. Here’s a pic at 201k miles of my ’88 Civic. This engine has run M1 15w50 for most of it’s life.
As you can see, it’s clean but not spotless. There is a little bit of sludge in a few places, especially on the #2 cylinder cam shaft holder. Some of the discoloration in the pic is due to the oil having 1.5k miles on it and beginning to turn dark.
I don’t know it AutoRX is worth the money or not on this engine. For the price of 1 AutoRX treatment I can switch to Redline for 4 oil changes. Unless I change my mind, I plan on going to RL in the spring. I will compare this photo with any changes in the sludge deposits to see it RL removes any.
I suppose the AutoRX treatment might work better and faster but I’m lazy and don’t feel like changing to dino, run ARX, run dino, change to syn etc.
You might be overstating the effectiveness of M1 keeping an engine clean. Here’s a pic at 201k miles of my ’88 Civic. This engine has run M1 15w50 for most of it’s life.
As you can see, it’s clean but not spotless. There is a little bit of sludge in a few places, especially on the #2 cylinder cam shaft holder. Some of the discoloration in the pic is due to the oil having 1.5k miles on it and beginning to turn dark.
I don’t know it AutoRX is worth the money or not on this engine. For the price of 1 AutoRX treatment I can switch to Redline for 4 oil changes. Unless I change my mind, I plan on going to RL in the spring. I will compare this photo with any changes in the sludge deposits to see it RL removes any.
I suppose the AutoRX treatment might work better and faster but I’m lazy and don’t feel like changing to dino, run ARX, run dino, change to syn etc.
tooslick, do you consider even frequent (3-4k) changes with petroleum oil to be 'poor maintenance?' I'm guessing (hoping!) no, but am just curious. That has been my approach for most of my vehicle's life, and I consider it to be pretty well maintained.
Very good post - I appreciate it. I am willing to try a cleaning product, but at this point I'm not sure that I need to. I have no reason for suspecting the motor in my 98 Trooper is dirty or in need of a legitimate cleaning except that it consumes a lot of oil. I don't know what the likelihood is that the motor really needs a good cleaning with Neutra or Auto-RX. Therefore, I didn't want to drop $40-50 on Auto-RX if it wasn't necessary. And I wanted to do something right away - which is why I decided to put in the diesel-oriented Delvac 1300 in hopes it would help clean things up a bit. My greater concern is slowing the consumption, and I was looking to do something that might address both issues. Hence the Delvac 1300 in a thicker weight (15W40) than the dino (5W30) I've been running.
It seems even the best-cleaning oils probably aren't as thorough or fast-acting as the best cleaning products. I don't expect miracles from the Delvac; just thought it might be a smart move for a thousand miles, change filter, run another thousand, etc. Cost isn't really an issue since the Delvac is < $1.50 per qt.
buster
Going by your warped thinking then I should have had nothing in the filter (PureONE) after using syn oil (Delvac 1 and Mobil 0W40). I'm just into my 3rd clean with Auto-Rx and had to replace the filter at 2000kms. You dont know what you are talking about!!
Going by your warped thinking then I should have had nothing in the filter (PureONE) after using syn oil (Delvac 1 and Mobil 0W40). I'm just into my 3rd clean with Auto-Rx and had to replace the filter at 2000kms. You dont know what you are talking about!!
Bluedevils
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I sent Redline an email asking the same question to their tech dept. The reply from them said their synthetic street oils mix very well with Mobil 1 synthetic in terms of both base stock and additive package. I may mix in one qt of Redline with 3 qts of Mobil 1 for my next oil change and see if I get any better cleaning from M1.
As a note, I used Mobil 1 in a '99 Nissan 3L v-6 for the last 3 years then switched to Vavoline synthetic for one oil change. During the 3 years I used the Mobil, the oil never became dark even before I changed the oil(every 4500-5000 miles). With the Vavoline Synthetic, the oil became dark within one month. I suspect it has better detergency than the M1. However, I still use M1 as my primary oil. The Redline mixing for one oil change is to see if I can get the benefits of M1 with some better cleaning....Or maybe I'll just switch to Amsoil....
Sprintman, if anything, your mind is warped. Once again, what I am saying is a well maintained engine that uses a good synthetic like M1 or Amsoil shouldnt need any cleaning if your changing the oil within reasonable limits. Engine flushes have a bad reputation and only a few are worth using..like RX and BG products. Ohterwise, it's not worth it. Ok mate?
[ December 24, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
[ December 24, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
Sprintman you have used many different oils,not just those two from you prior posts now just what tells you you had to change the filter at those miles?????? Also,what is in the filter when you open them up? A waxey substance by chance making it look like it is full of crud? Cut one open and feel it between you fingers and see if it feels like a soft wax and report back please,an honest one would be apreciated
I think you might be surprised in your findings imo- Status
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