German Castrol Craze?

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
glxpassat - I was Field Testing a new semi-synthetic HDEO for Castrol at around the time Formula SLX was introduced here. It was a direct German import. I believe its demise was caused by a lack of extensive Field/Durability Testing. I think they simply got it wrong!!

In it's original ester content formulation it was prone to heavy varnish deposits in some engine families and this was the cause of my component faiure. It was dropped "like a hot spud" as a Service fill by major Euro OEMs

Later as it evolved into a PAO based product - along with API updates - it had lost Market share and user confidence had been irrepearably contaminated

In the late 1990s Castrol embarked on much more Field Testing aligned with OEMs like BMW, VW-Audi and third party engine development Companies in Europe - especially in Germany. They have continued in this vein

Not much remains now from the pre BP takeover days - what does are great products (Transmax Z, some gear oils and the 10W-60 ester/PAO range as examples)

 

[BobFout]

 

[dparm]

^ WIN.

 

[glxpassat]

That's very interesting, thanks Doug!

 

[orlzx6r]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
glxpassat - I was Field Testing a new semi-synthetic HDEO for Castrol at around the time Formula SLX was introduced here. It was a direct German import. I believe its demise was caused by a lack of extensive Field/Durability Testing. I think they simply got it wrong!!


How did the HDEO you were testing correlate to Formula SLX or the current "German Castrol"?

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary

In it's original ester content formulation it was prone to heavy varnish deposits in some engine families and this was the cause of my component faiure. It was dropped "like a hot spud" as a Service fill by major Euro OEMs

Later as it evolved into a PAO based product - along with API updates - it had lost Market share and user confidence had been irrepearably contaminated


Was this the HDEO or Formula SLX?

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary

Is this the HDEO you were testing or are you referencing Formula SLX?

In the late 1990s Castrol embarked on much more Field Testing aligned with OEMs like BMW, VW-Audi and third party engine development Companies in Europe - especially in Germany. They have continued in this vein

Not much remains now from the pre BP takeover days - what does are great products (Transmax Z, some gear oils and the 10W-60 ester/PAO range as examples)

 

[d00df00d]

He said he was field testing an HDEO while all the drama with Formula SLX was going on. His comments pertain to Formula SLX. He only mentioned his field testing of the HDEO to say what he was doing at the time.

 

[redrocker55]

Originally Posted By: GMorg
We routinely saw UOAs with essentially no wear. It was hard to beat no significant wear metals. Many of the big boys were changed to lower additives and Group III base stocks. When the dye was removed (GCgreen to GCgold), many of us were concerned that the formula may have changed for worse. It doesn't seem that the new formula was down grade, but the change provided motivation to stock-up while we could.

I'm still running GCgreen. I only have two OCs left. Some people poke fun of the hoarders, but I've been running a great oil at $2.50-4.00/ quart for several years now.


I've used the search function and cannot find what I'm looking for...

...A virgin UOA for the Green GC so we can compare it to the Gold GC.

I've been playing with different oils in my 08 GTI. I just put some Gold GC in the car and it seem to really run well on it.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: redrocker55
I've used the search function and cannot find what I'm looking for...

...A virgin UOA for the Green GC so we can compare it to the Gold GC.

That wouldn't be a very good comparison. VOAs don't tell you anything about base stocks and non-elemental additives, which may be quite important.

There are plenty of oils that don't look like anything special on a VOA but are extremely good. Castrol TWS comes to mind.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: orlzx6r
Just curious how the original German Castrol 0W-30 craze started on BITOG? I know it's a good oil and has plenty of manufacturer approvals, but there are other oils with even better specs and approvals ( M1 0W-40, etc.). Could it have been because the oil was green?


I recall the craze began a little while after a forum member claimed there was no oil consumption after switching to GC 0w30.

Sometime later it was discovered that the oil dipstick reading never changed.

This was confirmed after he measured what when into the engine sump didn't measure the same as the amount that was drained at the end of the OCI. There was oil use.

The craze faded away after the great GC 0w-30 test trying to determine its chemcial composition and the above information was revealed.

 

[30valve]

Only two oils that I can think of that hold many Euro approvals, produce excellent UOA's, and can be bought at chain stores for $5/qt on sale-> GC and M1 0w-40.

GC also appears to be made with group IV basestocks while M1 is a group III and IV mix. Both great oils so the craze continues.

 

[glxpassat]

The craze ended with the formula change in early 2005. What the testing showed was that it was a PAO oil that used a special extreme pressure additive and had no viscosity index improvers.

The green formula had a lot of calcium detergent with no magnesium detergent. The gold formula reduced the calcium and added magnesium and had a lower TBN if I remember right. It was changed to meet the new MB 229.5 spec. The green was very smooth in my VW, I never tried the gold.

 

[Scum_Frog]

ummm...did the craze ever end lol ?

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: Scum_Frog
ummm...did the craze ever end lol ?


No, the craze never ended and continues to this day; Its just changed to keep up with the times...

 

[30valve]

The fact that GC has it's own section here with 36 pages, that are still updated regularly, shows the the craze continues.

 

[addyguy]

From what I've observed, one of the things that made GC very popular is it showed really really good results on GM HP V-8 engines - LS-1's and the like.

It was hard to get 'good' UOA's on those engines, but GC almost always delivered - UOA's by 'Patman' on his 'Vette were a good example of proof of this.

GC started to fade in popularity when other syns, like PP and Synpower, started to show similar good results. Also, in 2008/2009, with gas prices spiking, heavy, A3 oils like GC fell out of favour - thin 30-weight syns became more popular.

I never got around to trying, it, and I may never, but I always though it was a really impressive syn oil.

 

[calvin1]

Originally Posted By: 30valve
Only two oils that I can think of that hold many Euro approvals, produce excellent UOA's, and can be bought at chain stores for $5/qt on sale-> GC and M1 0w-40.

GC also appears to be made with group IV basestocks while M1 is a group III and IV mix. Both great oils so the craze continues.
This is a big one for anyone with a German car that wants to keep the warranty happy or just wants to make sure the car is getting the right stuff. Without going to the dealer - and paying dealer fluid prices - there aren't any other options besides the two 30valve mentions for the BMW LL spec.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: calvin1
Originally Posted By: 30valve
Only two oils that I can think of that hold many Euro approvals, produce excellent UOA's, and can be bought at chain stores for $5/qt on sale-> GC and M1 0w-40.

GC also appears to be made with group IV basestocks while M1 is a group III and IV mix. Both great oils so the craze continues.
This is a big one for anyone with a German car that wants to keep the warranty happy or just wants to make sure the car is getting the right stuff. Without going to the dealer - and paying dealer fluid prices - there aren't any other options besides the two 30valve mentions for the BMW LL spec.
oddly enough BMW 5w-30 was always historically cheaper than GC.

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: calvin1
Originally Posted By: 30valve
Only two oils that I can think of that hold many Euro approvals, produce excellent UOA's, and can be bought at chain stores for $5/qt on sale-> GC and M1 0w-40.

GC also appears to be made with group IV basestocks while M1 is a group III and IV mix. Both great oils so the craze continues.
This is a big one for anyone with a German car that wants to keep the warranty happy or just wants to make sure the car is getting the right stuff. Without going to the dealer - and paying dealer fluid prices - there aren't any other options besides the two 30valve mentions for the BMW LL spec.
oddly enough BMW 5w-30 was always historically cheaper than GC.


Except GC is frequently on sale for $4/qt or thereabouts even now and BMW 5w30 is never on sale (or at least I haven't been at a dealer at the right time).

 

[Patman]

The fact that other users on other automotive boards still use this stuff, and also still refer to it as GC (which BITOG members started), makes me believe that this craze definitely caught on and hasn't fully gone away. If they ever stop bringing this oil to NA there will be a lot of disappointed people!

 

[CATERHAM]

The "green" GC of at least 5 years ago now was a PAO, complex ester based lubricant. It was that oil that caught the attention of many on BITOG. Unfortunately we don't know what's the current GC is made from and it's current VI of only 166 is relatively low for a 0W-XX oil; most 5W-30's syn's have a higher VI.
We also don't know what it's actual extreme cold performance is since Castrol doesn't provide much specific spec's like MRV on it's oils.

It's interesting to note that the current M1 0W-40 while having a higher HTHS vis of 3.8cP is actually lighter (due to it's 185 VI) than GC at temp's as high as 25C. And that's the reason why I won't use GC any more unless they up date the formulation.