Fuel Economy Standard...Universal Law
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Whereas the EPA's "comfort" level is 3000ppm, OSHA says 10000 ppm for 8 hours is OK.....
OSHA Permissible Exposure
Limits
Final Rule Limits:
10,000 ppm Time Weighted Average (TWA)
30,000 ppm Short-Term Exposure Limit (STEL)
Transitional Limit:
5,000 ppm TWA
https://www.osha.gov/dts/sltc/methods/inorganic/id172/id172.html
OSHA Permissible Exposure
Limits
Final Rule Limits:
10,000 ppm Time Weighted Average (TWA)
30,000 ppm Short-Term Exposure Limit (STEL)
Transitional Limit:
5,000 ppm TWA
https://www.osha.gov/dts/sltc/methods/inorganic/id172/id172.html
Hate re-circ mode. Want fresh air, even if it's chilled. But hey, two of my back yard fleet still have vent wing windows, so no lack of fresh air here ...
Running the Oklahoma A/C when it's not 100* outside
Running the Oklahoma A/C when it's not 100* outside
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
99% of the time I have the AC on it's in recirc mode. Still plenty of air moving through the car. Cars have vents in the rear usually covered by flimsy flaps under the trunk liner.
Those flaps are there to release the pressure when you slam the doors closed, when everything else is closed. They're not there to provide fresh air.
No they are to provide for flow through ventilation. They are exhaust vents that being at the rear of the car vent into a low pressure area.
They may even be for both purposes.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
99% of the time I have the AC on it's in recirc mode. Still plenty of air moving through the car. Cars have vents in the rear usually covered by flimsy flaps under the trunk liner.
Those flaps are there to release the pressure when you slam the doors closed, when everything else is closed. They're not there to provide fresh air.
No they are to provide for flow through ventilation. They are exhaust vents that being at the rear of the car vent into a low pressure area.
They may even be for both purposes.
We'll always be afflicted by unintended consequences when amateur politicians being financed by special interest groups create laws to govern the "little people" that must be watched over and regulated.
The linked article was an interesting read. Life is busy and sometimes complicated and one must exercise some common sense and stay aware and informed if one is to move into this brave new world. It's too bad that politicians depend on just the opposite to make a living.
The linked article was an interesting read. Life is busy and sometimes complicated and one must exercise some common sense and stay aware and informed if one is to move into this brave new world. It's too bad that politicians depend on just the opposite to make a living.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
99% of the time I have the AC on it's in recirc mode. Still plenty of air moving through the car. Cars have vents in the rear usually covered by flimsy flaps under the trunk liner.
Those flaps are there to release the pressure when you slam the doors closed, when everything else is closed. They're not there to provide fresh air.
No they are to provide for flow through ventilation. They are exhaust vents that being at the rear of the car vent into a low pressure area.
They may even be for both purposes.
Indeed. They don't seal as they are a rigid flap over a multi louvered opening sealing best when pressure is going out. I run battery cables through them when I mount the battery in the trunk.
Probably meant to stop the buffering effect you get when driving with the windows open.
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
99% of the time I have the AC on it's in recirc mode. Still plenty of air moving through the car. Cars have vents in the rear usually covered by flimsy flaps under the trunk liner.
Those flaps are there to release the pressure when you slam the doors closed, when everything else is closed. They're not there to provide fresh air.
No they are to provide for flow through ventilation. They are exhaust vents that being at the rear of the car vent into a low pressure area.
They may even be for both purposes.
Indeed. They don't seal as they are a rigid flap over a multi louvered opening sealing best when pressure is going out. I run battery cables through them when I mount the battery in the trunk.
Probably meant to stop the buffering effect you get when driving with the windows open.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
I only use fresh air for about 1 minute when I leave for work with a window cracked to push out the hot air.
The other 66 miles of my daily commute is with recirculate on.
The other 66 miles of my daily commute is with recirculate on.
That is interesting. But what with us Europeans and PM? I can see the benefits of fresh air in rural parts without heavy traffic, but what to do when we travel extremely congested motorways with probably 90% of diesels on the road?
How efficient are cabin filters with PM?
How efficient are cabin filters with PM?
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I only use fresh air for about 1 minute when I leave for work with a window cracked to push out the hot air.
The other 66 miles of my daily commute is with recirculate on.
I do pretty much the same thing.. well, at least on hot days. When it's 110+ degrees out, the inside of the car can easily hit 140, so running the A/C on vent air with both back windows cracked 1/2" makes a massive difference. As soon as I hit the highway, it's windows up and recirculate for the remaining 53 miles of my drive into work. Same goes for my 55 miles back home FROM work at the end of the day.
I only use fresh air for about 1 minute when I leave for work with a window cracked to push out the hot air.
The other 66 miles of my daily commute is with recirculate on.
I do pretty much the same thing.. well, at least on hot days. When it's 110+ degrees out, the inside of the car can easily hit 140, so running the A/C on vent air with both back windows cracked 1/2" makes a massive difference. As soon as I hit the highway, it's windows up and recirculate for the remaining 53 miles of my drive into work. Same goes for my 55 miles back home FROM work at the end of the day.
I run recirculate most of the time in the warmer months here as well. I don't have a daily commute any more though. Stop & go traffic on hot pavement boxed in by expressway walls is where I see my highest ambient temperatures these days.
Law enforcement agencies here & in Austin are installing gas monitoring equipment in their Ford SUV's after some recent incidents.
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/poli...-ford-explorer/
http://foxsanantonio.com/news/local/amid...ctors-installed
I've always been much more concerned on CO concentrations in my breathing gas than CO2 personally.
Law enforcement agencies here & in Austin are installing gas monitoring equipment in their Ford SUV's after some recent incidents.
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/poli...-ford-explorer/
http://foxsanantonio.com/news/local/amid...ctors-installed
I've always been much more concerned on CO concentrations in my breathing gas than CO2 personally.
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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
How high is too high for CO2 levels?
Seriously? Read the article already! 100-1100 PPM is the "discomfort" level.
I did read the article and I am very familiar with CO2 levels. My meter says under 1000ppm is normal. I get discomfort at around 3000ppm.
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
How high is too high for CO2 levels?
Seriously? Read the article already! 100-1100 PPM is the "discomfort" level.
I did read the article and I am very familiar with CO2 levels. My meter says under 1000ppm is normal. I get discomfort at around 3000ppm.
What manufacturer(s) really allow 100% recirculated air nowadays* with the fan running, as the article implies? 80%(as someone already mentioned) is likely more typical. My Prius does, however, allow shutting the HVAC fan off, which in this case means very low rate of fresh air entry.
*Maybe not always ... Way back in 1961 when "factory air" was fairly new (and didn't differ greatly from add-on systems), relatives of mine ordered a new Ford with air conditioning. The dealer told them the wait for their custom order would be even longer than usual, because special measures were required to seal out intrusion of outside air. Whether that was true, I wondered.
*Maybe not always ... Way back in 1961 when "factory air" was fairly new (and didn't differ greatly from add-on systems), relatives of mine ordered a new Ford with air conditioning. The dealer told them the wait for their custom order would be even longer than usual, because special measures were required to seal out intrusion of outside air. Whether that was true, I wondered.
So perhaps a periodic purge mode (written into the logic) would suffice, maybe just timed or employing CO2 sensors? CO2 is a highly politicized compound right now, so all of this discussion about integrating sensors into vehicle systems is taken with a grain of salt for me. Seems like an excuse to gather data (to eventually use for political purposes), similar to data gathered by radar sensors, cameras, CANBUS data dumps etc all in the name of our safety, of course. I'm sure insurance companies will have no use for data that can allow them to dismiss claims.... "for our safety and to save lives"- I just don't buy it.
Nevertheless, a full, proper recirc mode is also something I really value. When driving through the acrid smoke of a wildfire or an industrial accident, fresh puckied fields or just behind the clown in front of you with no catalyst, 100% recirc is valuable.
The dumb nanny systems not so much eg. GM vehicles that lock recirc out and mandates AC on based on the vent mode. That's just ignorant and irritating.
CO2? Hey, the vehicle in front of you is pumping way more of that out than the occupants in your car. Just try not to drive for 5 hours straight in recirc. Doesn't seem so hard, but neither does backing out of a parking spot without 5 radar sensors and cameras.
Nevertheless, a full, proper recirc mode is also something I really value. When driving through the acrid smoke of a wildfire or an industrial accident, fresh puckied fields or just behind the clown in front of you with no catalyst, 100% recirc is valuable.
The dumb nanny systems not so much eg. GM vehicles that lock recirc out and mandates AC on based on the vent mode. That's just ignorant and irritating.
CO2? Hey, the vehicle in front of you is pumping way more of that out than the occupants in your car. Just try not to drive for 5 hours straight in recirc. Doesn't seem so hard, but neither does backing out of a parking spot without 5 radar sensors and cameras.
The 2016 impala I rented would automatically give me recirc AC whenever I started. Wonder if that was for the fuel economy credits.
The rear vent flaps, as I understand it, are for when the airbags go off, to lessen the impact to one's ear drums. Any flow through ventilation benefit is concurrent.
The rear vent flaps, as I understand it, are for when the airbags go off, to lessen the impact to one's ear drums. Any flow through ventilation benefit is concurrent.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
The 2016 impala I rented would automatically give me recirc AC whenever I started. Wonder if that was for the fuel economy credits.
The rear vent flaps, as I understand it, are for when the airbags go off, to lessen the impact to one's ear drums. Any flow through ventilation benefit is concurrent.
Priorities certainly have changed for new GMs. Our 2005 doesn't give the option for recirc and locks AC on for any mode on the right side of the dial. Wonder if it's just configuration in the BCM tailored for certain regions like DRLs etc
The 2016 impala I rented would automatically give me recirc AC whenever I started. Wonder if that was for the fuel economy credits.
The rear vent flaps, as I understand it, are for when the airbags go off, to lessen the impact to one's ear drums. Any flow through ventilation benefit is concurrent.
Priorities certainly have changed for new GMs. Our 2005 doesn't give the option for recirc and locks AC on for any mode on the right side of the dial. Wonder if it's just configuration in the BCM tailored for certain regions like DRLs etc
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Well when the CC is NOT in recirc and the windows up where does the air go??????
It exits via exhaust points specifically provided by the manufacturer, at least since roughly 1970. Before then, they relied on miscellaneous leakage or open windows.
If you turn your fan on its highest speed, not in "RECIRC," and go outside the car with all the doors and windows closed, you can feel or hear air exiting somewhere.
Well when the CC is NOT in recirc and the windows up where does the air go??????
It exits via exhaust points specifically provided by the manufacturer, at least since roughly 1970. Before then, they relied on miscellaneous leakage or open windows.
If you turn your fan on its highest speed, not in "RECIRC," and go outside the car with all the doors and windows closed, you can feel or hear air exiting somewhere.
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
Come on now, does everyone think that running with the recirculate on means that you are in a sealed unit with zero outside air coming in?
If that was the case, you would die from lack of oxygen because of too much carbon dioxide that you exhale on a several hour trip.
So, you did not read the linked article, either.
Come on now, does everyone think that running with the recirculate on means that you are in a sealed unit with zero outside air coming in?
If that was the case, you would die from lack of oxygen because of too much carbon dioxide that you exhale on a several hour trip.
So, you did not read the linked article, either.
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