FCA Fined $77 Million For Missing U.S. CAFE Fuel Economy Target

[Vuflanovsky]

Can't say I disagree with this idea that it's CAFE or similar...OR taxes and fees that support the new structure with electrics/hybrid/hydrogen. For every person that whines about CAFE, they'll be screaming when electrics become the norm and what needs to happen to support roads and transportation infrastructure.

If your state has a percentage of their gas tax component that isn't even auditable, get ready when that scenario becomes even more confused with infrastructure fees and taxes that seem to generate from all corners.

The concept that many Americans base their vehicle purchases on the price of gas would tell me the intellect level involved with understanding that whatever you feel about CAFE standards, FCA was bailed out in the downturn, made subsequent poor decisions including the dropping of their higher mileage vehicles, and ( independent of Obama vs. current standards ) have a PR person that says that CAFE needs to be aligned to American tastes...evidently based on V10 lift kit trucks.

If FCA frames this fine as being penalized for a "bad decision" then you can argue about how much of that's about short term gain versus long term investment...along with their expectation of another bailout should they need it for more bad decisions and/or market climates that make them an irrelevant vehicle maker. In FCA's case. you can make an argument that they didn't learn and are possibly too small to "learn" versus GM and Ford.

 

[zorobabel]

Originally Posted by Vuflanovsky
Can't say I disagree with this idea that it's CAFE or similar...OR taxes and fees that support the new structure with electrics/hybrid/hydrogen. For every person that whines about CAFE, they'll be screaming when electrics become the norm and what needs to happen to support roads and transportation infrastructure.

If your state has a percentage of their gas tax component that isn't even auditable, get ready when that scenario becomes even more confused with infrastructure fees and taxes that seem to generate from all corners.

The concept that many Americans base their vehicle purchases on the price of gas would tell me the intellect level involved with understanding that whatever you feel about CAFE standards, FCA was bailed out in the downturn, made subsequent poor decisions including the dropping of their higher mileage vehicles, and ( independent of Obama vs. current standards ) have a PR person that says that CAFE needs to be aligned to American tastes...evidently based on V10 lift kit trucks.

If FCA frames this fine as being penalized for a "bad decision" then you can argue about how much of that's about short term gain versus long term investment...along with their expectation of another bailout should they need it for more bad decisions and/or market climates that make them an irrelevant vehicle maker. In FCA's case. you can make an argument that they didn't learn and are possibly too small to "learn" versus GM and Ford.


+1
Knowing they had fuel economy goals to achieve, they drop small cars to sell expensive heavy trucks. The fine is fine with me

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted by Kira
"CAFE is dumb anyway. People are going to buy what they want."

We gotta have clean air. However it gets done is OK with me and a lot of other people I suspect.

Do you have a better way of creating downward pressure on pollutants? Let's hear it.

CAFE = Corporate Average Fuel Economy. Has nothing to do with reducing pollution.

 

[earlyre]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
They make great large cars, trucks, and SUV's, which naturally don't lend themselves to stellar fuel economy.


"Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has revealed that it paid a $77 million civil penalty because its passenger cars built in the U.S. failed to meet required fuel economy targets for the 2016 model year.

Their Large Cars(300, Charger and Challenger)are built in Canada. Only the Crew and Double cab 1500 Trucks are built in MI, ALL of the other trucks( single cab 1500's, and everything larger) are made in Mexico.

"Production(Wikipedia)

Ram vehicles are manufactured at three facilities, two in North America and one in Europe.

Warren Truck Assembly, Warren, Michigan, United States. First opened in 1938, the facility has produced trucks for Dodge and Ram for over 70 years. Near the plant are also the Warren metal stamping plant, Mount Elliot tool and die plant which contribute parts and components to the manufacture of the Dakota and 1500 series. The following models are currently assembled at the plant: Ram 1500 series, all crew cab and double cab models for the global market are assembled here except for the Ram 1500 Laramie, which is built at both the Warren facility and Ram's Saltillo Assembly for the Mexican market.
Saltillo Truck Assembly, Saltillo, Mexico. The plant manufactures the full range of the Ram truck series as well as the DX Chassis cab and ProMaster van. The plant has won numerous awards and has been recognized as the Chrysler groups best truck facility in terms of build quality.[9] The Saltillo stamping plant is also attached to the facility.

The following models are built at the plant:

Ram 1500 all regular cab models of various trim levels sold globally are manufactured at the facility as is the crew cab Ram 1500 Laramie for the Mexican market.
Ram 2500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 3500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 4500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 5500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
DX Chassis Cab manufactured for the Mexican and Canadian markets only.
Ram ProMaster

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Originally Posted by Kestas
We're talking about CAFE and fuel economy, not pollution. The two do not necessarily go hand in hand.


+1.

Always amazed me that a 50 MPG VW diesel could be labeled a "gross polluter", while an 8 MPG Ford Excursion could be labeled a partial zero emission vehicle. LOL. The issue is that people cant determine what boogey man they are chasing...


Great point that many people cant wrap their head around.

I tend to use the term industry professional for a reason.

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Skippy722

There are better ways than arbitrary mpg standards that all the auto manufacturers game. Case in point? GM's turbo 4 cylinder truck that on paper gets good mileage. In the real world, it loses to the bigger engines.


GMs 4 cylinder would do perfectly fine (just like Fords ecobust)
But only in the outgoing GM truck body but GM made the truck have a bigger more aggressive (aka stupid) front end that makes the truck 20% less efficient on the highway than the old model.

Why make a rediculous inefficient truck body then try to band aid it with a more efficient motor?

Seems to me you would at the very least keep an equally efficient design as compared to your old body and frame.

Ah well hard to learn them on basic science

 

[StevieC]

^^^

picture of the HD Silverado.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Rmay635703
Originally Posted by Skippy722

There are better ways than arbitrary mpg standards that all the auto manufacturers game. Case in point? GM's turbo 4 cylinder truck that on paper gets good mileage. In the real world, it loses to the bigger engines.

GMs 4 cylinder would do perfectly fine (just like Fords ecobust)
But only in the outgoing GM truck body but GM made the truck have a bigger more aggressive (aka stupid) front end that makes the truck 20% less efficient on the highway than the old model.

Why make a rediculous inefficient truck body then try to band aid it with a more efficient motor?

Seems to me you would at the very least keep an equally efficient design as compared to your old body and frame.

Ah well hard to learn them on basic science

This is a good point. The designers seem to be moving away from aerodynamics in favor of making large pickups look more like Peterbilts or Kenworths. Even those trucks have some aerodynamic shape up front.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Chrysler should captive import some cheap 60 mpg car from overseas and throw it in "free" with the purchase of every Ram truck

 

[Oily_Thing]

Originally Posted by earlyre

"Production(Wikipedia)

Ram vehicles are manufactured at three facilities, two in North America and one in Europe.

Warren Truck Assembly, Warren, Michigan, United States. First opened in 1938, the facility has produced trucks for Dodge and Ram for over 70 years. Near the plant are also the Warren metal stamping plant, Mount Elliot tool and die plant which contribute parts and components to the manufacture of the Dakota and 1500 series. The following models are currently assembled at the plant: Ram 1500 series, all crew cab and double cab models for the global market are assembled here except for the Ram 1500 Laramie, which is built at both the Warren facility and Ram's Saltillo Assembly for the Mexican market.
Saltillo Truck Assembly, Saltillo, Mexico. The plant manufactures the full range of the Ram truck series as well as the DX Chassis cab and ProMaster van. The plant has won numerous awards and has been recognized as the Chrysler groups best truck facility in terms of build quality.[9] The Saltillo stamping plant is also attached to the facility.

The following models are built at the plant:

Ram 1500 all regular cab models of various trim levels sold globally are manufactured at the facility as is the crew cab Ram 1500 Laramie for the Mexican market.
Ram 2500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 3500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 4500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 5500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
DX Chassis Cab manufactured for the Mexican and Canadian markets only.
Ram ProMaster



Durango/Jeep Grand Cherokee is assembled in Detroit

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted by StevieC
^^^

picture of the HD Silverado.


Get rid of all those side mirrors and it's pretty realistic.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by earlyre
Originally Posted by Skippy722
They make great large cars, trucks, and SUV's, which naturally don't lend themselves to stellar fuel economy.


"Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has revealed that it paid a $77 million civil penalty because its passenger cars built in the U.S. failed to meet required fuel economy targets for the 2016 model year.

Their Large Cars(300, Charger and Challenger)are built in Canada. Only the Crew and Double cab 1500 Trucks are built in MI, ALL of the other trucks( single cab 1500's, and everything larger) are made in Mexico.

"Production(Wikipedia)

Ram vehicles are manufactured at three facilities, two in North America and one in Europe.

Warren Truck Assembly, Warren, Michigan, United States. First opened in 1938, the facility has produced trucks for Dodge and Ram for over 70 years. Near the plant are also the Warren metal stamping plant, Mount Elliot tool and die plant which contribute parts and components to the manufacture of the Dakota and 1500 series. The following models are currently assembled at the plant: Ram 1500 series, all crew cab and double cab models for the global market are assembled here except for the Ram 1500 Laramie, which is built at both the Warren facility and Ram's Saltillo Assembly for the Mexican market.
Saltillo Truck Assembly, Saltillo, Mexico. The plant manufactures the full range of the Ram truck series as well as the DX Chassis cab and ProMaster van. The plant has won numerous awards and has been recognized as the Chrysler groups best truck facility in terms of build quality.[9] The Saltillo stamping plant is also attached to the facility.

The following models are built at the plant:

Ram 1500 all regular cab models of various trim levels sold globally are manufactured at the facility as is the crew cab Ram 1500 Laramie for the Mexican market.
Ram 2500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 3500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 4500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 5500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
DX Chassis Cab manufactured for the Mexican and Canadian markets only.
Ram ProMaster



Challenger, Charger, and 300 are made at the Brampton plant in Canada. Durango and Grand Cherokee in Michigan at the Jefferson plant like another poster said.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Chrysler should captive import some cheap 60 mpg car from overseas and throw it in "free" with the purchase of every Ram truck

They used to use Mitsu's and sell them under the Eagle and sometimes Dodge brand back in the 1990's.

They could easily do a joint partnership with someone like Toyota like GM did for the Vibe/Matrix, however the problem is that people are shifting to larger SUV's and trucks so it wouldn't be worthwhile.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Originally Posted by Kestas
We're talking about CAFE and fuel economy, not pollution. The two do not necessarily go hand in hand.


+1.

Always amazed me that a 50 MPG VW diesel could be labeled a "gross polluter", while an 8 MPG Ford Excursion could be labeled a partial zero emission vehicle. LOL. The issue is that people cant determine what boogey man they are chasing...


Same with the 90s Honda Civic HX.

Somehow a V10 ford Excursion is better for the environment than a 50MPG Civic or VW.


It's not. It's a political decision because domestics make more money on SUV's so they're given a different metric.


The EPA cares about NOX emission dependent on engine size and fuel consumption.

The 50MPG offerings, while they have much less NOX emissions, have to much proportionally , to the V10 excursion

 

[zorobabel]

Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Miller88


Same with the 90s Honda Civic HX.

Somehow a V10 ford Excursion is better for the environment than a 50MPG Civic or VW.


It's not. It's a political decision because domestics make more money on SUV's so they're given a different metric.


The EPA cares about NOX emission dependent on engine size and fuel consumption.

The 50MPG offerings, while they have much less NOX emissions, have to much proportionally , to the V10 excursion

It is unfair to the 50 mpg car, but good for business and the economy.
One person drives 20 miles to work in the 50 mpg car generating xx in NOx.
Another person drives 20 miles to work in the V10 truck generating xxx in NOx.
The 50 mpg car is labeled as the gross polluter.

Another example is smog in California.
I had a 99 Camry with a manual transmission. It was allowed about 20% less HC than the slushbox version.

 

[supton]

Been a while since I looked but the limits were in grams per mile. As far as NOx goes, a 50mpg car might emit more grams of NOx per mile than the 15mpg SUV. I don't know if GVWR plays into this or not (above 8,500lb it changes?) but my recollection was that, back in 2004 when I got my diesel, its NOx was right up there, regardless of mpg.

 

[das_peikko]

Originally Posted by Kira
"CAFE is dumb anyway. People are going to buy what they want."

We gotta have clean air. However it gets done is OK with me and a lot of other people I suspect.

Do you have a better way of creating downward pressure on pollutants? Let's hear it.


95 percent of the pollution is made by the older vehicles that are exempt.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by billt460
So where or who does the $77 Million in fines go to?


Down a Federally subsidized rat hole would be my guess.


That's about the size of it IMO.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted by earlyre
Originally Posted by Skippy722
They make great large cars, trucks, and SUV's, which naturally don't lend themselves to stellar fuel economy.


"Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has revealed that it paid a $77 million civil penalty because its passenger cars built in the U.S. failed to meet required fuel economy targets for the 2016 model year.

Their Large Cars(300, Charger and Challenger)are built in Canada. Only the Crew and Double cab 1500 Trucks are built in MI, ALL of the other trucks( single cab 1500's, and everything larger) are made in Mexico.

"Production(Wikipedia)

Ram vehicles are manufactured at three facilities, two in North America and one in Europe.

Warren Truck Assembly, Warren, Michigan, United States. First opened in 1938, the facility has produced trucks for Dodge and Ram for over 70 years. Near the plant are also the Warren metal stamping plant, Mount Elliot tool and die plant which contribute parts and components to the manufacture of the Dakota and 1500 series. The following models are currently assembled at the plant: Ram 1500 series, all crew cab and double cab models for the global market are assembled here except for the Ram 1500 Laramie, which is built at both the Warren facility and Ram's Saltillo Assembly for the Mexican market.
Saltillo Truck Assembly, Saltillo, Mexico. The plant manufactures the full range of the Ram truck series as well as the DX Chassis cab and ProMaster van. The plant has won numerous awards and has been recognized as the Chrysler groups best truck facility in terms of build quality.[9] The Saltillo stamping plant is also attached to the facility.

The following models are built at the plant:

Ram 1500 all regular cab models of various trim levels sold globally are manufactured at the facility as is the crew cab Ram 1500 Laramie for the Mexican market.
Ram 2500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 3500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 4500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
Ram 5500 all models of various trim levels, cab type, and bed length. Vehicles built here are sold globally.
DX Chassis Cab manufactured for the Mexican and Canadian markets only.
Ram ProMaster




My 2015 Ram 1500 SXT crew cab was built at the Saltillo plant in Mexico.

 

[StevieC]

Caravans are also built in Canada and aren't stellar on fuel.