GOODBYE 0w-20 5W-20

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Originally Posted By: VNTS
also, increase fuel economy reduces vehcihle safety, that is something the Obama admin didnt want to mention.
In this day and age, even econoboxes come with a suite of airbags, seatbelts, ESP - but the most important advancement is high-strength steel, pioneered by Mercedes and Volvo - stronger but not as heavy as regular steel. Audi started using aluminum for unibodies in the 1990s. Newer cars might crush like soda cans in a crash but the passengers inside have a much better chance of walking away alive than getting a one-way trip to the morgue. It's when a smaller car collides with a bigger car/SUV/brodozer is when there's a problem. I'll leave this here:
/edit - not all luxury car tech trickles down to the hoi polloi immediately - but it does eventually. A Fit/Yaris might benefit from Acura/Lexus trickledown when it comes to safety advancements but an Accent/Versa might not since Hyundai and Nissan are too focused on cost cutting.
 
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Originally Posted By: wwillson
Please be careful not to make this political
Understood, but how to do that? It is a political subject because POTIS is driving the discussion ...
 
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I've always had a problem with consumers believing that the free market has their best interests in mind. Corporations don't. Need proof? Look at past history. Without a requirement to produce safer, more efficient vehicles, there would be none. Don't say that if there's a demand that a company would fill it. That's bull excrement. The government exists to protect its citizens. Corporations exist to make money.
 
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If there was a demand then the companies would fulfill it, just as they did in the late 70's. Please explain why an artificial "demand" needs to be created? I hope that all the posters supporting CAFE also aren't the ones complaining about XW-20 oils.
 
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GM upped their fleet's "fuel efficiency" when they dropped the Avalanche (Tahoe/ Silverado). Same with Jeep and the Commander (Grand Cherokee).
 
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And the H2 as well - even though it was in the same EPA category/bin as the Silverado HD, but it had the aerodynamics and handling of a brick.
 
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Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Quote:
I also despise the number of behemoth SUVs I see everywhere with a single occupant pointlessly ruining the planet, but that's more a matter of personal taste. If you need a truck for your livelihood or road conditions, or on a regular enough basis to warrant daily driving one, that's one thing. Buying a Tahoe to drive alone everywhere is another.
We own an 8 passenger Honda Odyssey. I have raised three kids in it, and hosted pairs of exchange students for years. Typically, we have had 7 passengers in it. Thats exactly why we bought it. With that in mind, sometimes my wife or I are seen driving it alone. Should I be judged and condemned by someone who does not know me for "ruining the planet"? This whole "holier than thou" vehicle judgement thing is so obnoxious and tiresome. Sorry folks, I kind of like my freedom. Get over it.
Hauling 7 people around seems like a perfectly reasonable case for a vehicle of that size to me, and the curb weight of an Odyssey is similar to a full size sedan. They're like 1200lb less the an a Suburban with a similar passenger hauling count. Mini vans and wagons are, in my opinion at least, the solution - not the problem. They're way more efficient people haulers than the behemoth SUVs to which I was referring. That criticism was intended for the people who don't actually have passengers for their jinormous vehicles. They do exist, and are not few in numbers in this neck of the woods. I'm just a random faceless dude on the internet though, and entitled to opinions like everyone else, so please don't take it personally. We all choose our own way for our own reasons. --Matt
 
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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: surfstar
The government exists to protect its citizens.
Try again.
That's easy smile - lobby Gov to start a war abroad - sell as much military equipment as possible, make big buck - lobby Gov to drag the war as long as possible - sell more even more expensive stuff - pay CNN to explain citizens it was all done for their protection...
 
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/edit - not all luxury car tech trickles down to the hoi polloi immediately - but it does eventually. A Fit/Yaris might benefit from Acura/Lexus trickledown when it comes to safety advancements but an Accent/Versa might not since Hyundai and Nissan are too focused on cost cutting. Edited by nthach (03/16/17 01:02 PM) I don't agree with this idea at all since most cars including subcompacts are employing more high-strength steel and safety cage improvements every year. Hyundai wasn't cost cutting when the price of the Accent went up $2000 for MY2012 and included better safety along with feature creep. The upcoming 2018 Accent has considerably more high-strength steel than the previous generation. Somehow a Toyota/Honda subcompact will receive this "trickledown" faster because of "cost cutting"...that's either an overgeneralization, laughable, or both.
 
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Originally Posted By: nthach
As much as I consider myself an environmentalist - V8s have their place. There's no place for a twin-turbo gasoline V6 in big trucks or luxury cars(at least in the size frame of the Mercedes S-Class/BMW 7 Series/Audi A8/Lexus LS), and the V8 is going to be worked less = more durable = more reliable. We'll see how the new HO EcoBoost in the Raptor and Toyota's twin-turbo GR engine in the new Lexus LS500 holds up = both are twin-turbo 3.5L V6s.
I would have agreed completely if you asked me this even a few months ago, and I still do, to a point, but from a fuel economy perspective, the EcoBoost does live up to its fuel economy promises, if you drive it like a grandmother, which I tend to do. I had one as a rental for a time, and I was impressed. Now, driving it for performance might bring about a completely different experience when it comes to economy and longevity, but that is another matter.
 
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Originally Posted By: edyvw
Oh well, this means we will bail out GM again.
Or maybe idiots will buy foreign makes bailed out by their gov'ts long ago. Starting with the nazi party...
 
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dblshock

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Originally Posted By: surfstar
I've always had a problem with consumers believing that the free market has their best interests in mind. Corporations don't. Need proof? Look at past history. Without a requirement to produce safer, more efficient vehicles, there would be none. Don't say that if there's a demand that a company would fill it. That's bull excrement. The government exists to protect its citizens. Corporations exist to make money.
The old Volvo sold it to a narrow market.
 
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Originally Posted By: surfstar
I've always had a problem with consumers believing that the free market has their best interests in mind. Corporations don't. Need proof? Look at past history. Without a requirement to produce safer, more efficient vehicles, there would be none. Don't say that if there's a demand that a company would fill it. That's bull excrement. The government exists to protect its citizens. Corporations exist to make money.
This thread needs to be shut down. With that said, stating as you did .. .China exists to protect its citizens, North Korea exists to protect it citizens. The King Of England existed to protect the people who discovered America. I ALWAYS have a problem with people thinking a hired Public Servant is more smarter then me. Nothing could be further from the truth. Proof ... These are the people that you think know what is good for you, click
 

dblshock

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at least the big ten mfg's won't have to insist on 0/20. I'm thinking we'll go back to a range based on wear vs. economy..just creates more marketing opportunities.
 
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Originally Posted By: Donald
We still would be on carburetors if there wasn't a push for better fuel economy.
Auto tech was advancing long before .gov got involved in the car business.
 
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This thread is quite entertaining. I have always been, and am still dumbfounded that one person (usually seems to be an Asian vehicle owner - I said usually - in my experience) that is "offended" at another person's choice of vehicle being a large suv, truck etc. Who cares!!! This is still a free country (looking better everyday), and me or anyone else should be able to drive what we want and can afford. Period. I think the maddest I've been on the road, more than once I might add, was being stuck behind some hyper-mile (ing) Prius driver uphill in the fast lane, rolling roadblock. I don't give a rat's a** if you're gettin 60 or 80 mpg. I'm probably towing and gettin 10-14. GTF outa my way!! OK rant over, I do think, for now, the automakers are scrambling with new technology for miniscule return (I get it - the CAFE thing, and don't have a better answer) but things like AFM/DOD seem to have lifter issues somewhere prior to reaching 200K that the standard lifters in same engine don't experience. Start/Stop technology? Sure some have dual batteries and "stronger" starters, which will probably not be an issue until late in vehicle's life, but eventually it will. I have a (few) Ecotecs that cut the alternator output to 12.2 under cruise and other low amp load conditions. Prob not the best for battery life, but it may have gained a fraction of a mpg multiplied by how ever many million vehicles. I would like to see the CAFE requirements take a breather and let technology "catch-up'. And in regards to diesels and the EPA, I own a Peterbilt with an electronic yet pre-emission CAT. That truck has nearly 1.7 million miles on it, and I wouldn't trade it for multiple 04 or newer ones IF I had to keep and maintain them. Wayyy too many issues. Still. VW was brilliant, although wrong and got caught. The owners of those diesels should be sending VW thank you cards instead of joining class action lawsuits.
 
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Originally Posted By: surfstar
I've always had a problem with consumers believing that the free market has their best interests in mind. Corporations don't. Need proof? Look at past history. Without a requirement to produce safer, more efficient vehicles, there would be none. Don't say that if there's a demand that a company would fill it. That's bull excrement. The government exists to protect its citizens. Corporations exist to make money.
But that has nothing to do with EPA and economy issues. Occupant safety was pushed by the NHTSA and DOT. No one is arguing that occupant safety should have been left alone and not promoted by government. But that is a far stretch from what is being pushed regarding EPA and some earth is dying / global warming stuff. It is one thing to promote vehicle safety, it is quite another to go to extremes to limit citizen choices and negatively affect an entire industry and cause costs to reach a level where many folks cannot afford a reasonable, reliable, safe automobile that truly meets their needs. Buying a vehicle today is almost like taking out a mortgage on a home for some people. Only well to do snobs feel like they can determine for the commoners what they should have. Fuel prices of a few years ago did more to promote vehicle fuel economy than anything else. The market will always provide what the customer actually wants. The only time that gets all screwed up is when government tries to force something down the consumer's throat.
 
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