Ethanol and increased pollution

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Apr 24, 2018
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That is the problem with our current emissions and regulatory environment . Little cars are held to very high pollution standards but commercial interests do not have to follow any of the rules that private cars do . There are more emissions made on the supply side to get your gallon of gas to your car than your car could ever emit burning that gallon of fuel. That's why I would support making every car on the road 20% more efficient by running lean because the only current way to reduce emissions is to use less fuel. Increasing car regulation on emissions while increasing fuel use does nothing to reduce supply side emissions Ah well
 
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On PZEV vehicles like most Subaru's the gas cap won't vent, these cars truly meet the sealed tank requirements, but other cars can vent if they get very hot. On the Prius this is accomplished using a nefarious fuel tank bladder that takes up the expansion and contraction, other cars no idea. Now gas stations have their tanks underground and usually stay cool enough that they simply don't vent as much as a car but it's still unfortunate that they don't recover fumes. Ah well
 
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May 21, 2012
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Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted by anndel
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
The confusion is in the term "vented". A true "vented" fuel cap is like a scupper on a boat. It won't let fuel fly out, but will allow the passage of air and vapor as much as it wants. Modern fuel caps are not considered to be "vented" because they have valves that only allow air to pass in or out when a certain limit of negative or positive pressure has been reached. They do allow for a kind of venting of the fuel tank, but not in the same way as true "vented" fuel caps did. When a fuel tank is sitting, pressure has to go somewhere. In hot weather, my EPA fuel cans bulge ridiculously, and then suck themselves into a complete pucker at night. A vehicle's fuel tank would do the same thing if it were not for the release of positive and negative pressure.
The EVAP system.
To a certain extent. Once the capacity of the canister has been reached, there is only one way to go.
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
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Brazil
Originally Posted by Oldmoparguy1
Originally Posted by StevieC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil
Quote
The Brazilian car manufacturing industry developed flexible-fuel vehicles that can run on any proportion of gasoline (E20-E25 blend) and hydrous ethanol (E100). ... This production price difference, though small, contributes to the competitiveness of the hydrated ethanol (E100) used in Brazil
Also a VW running on 100% Ethanol in Brazil - https://www.greencarreports.com/new...brazils-volkswagen-gol-flex-fuel-vehicle
Brazil makes ethanol from sugarcane waste and burns the leftovers ( Bagasse) to heat the process. Been doing that since the 70's or so.
Exactly. Hello guys, my first post here, and i wanted to give you my point of view of ethanol as a fuel, being a brazilian and using only E100 every time. I won't get into political debate because i don't know what is going on over there. I have a 1994 Chevrolet Kadett, it's a neat ethanol car, so it only use pure ethanol since it came out from factory. The difference from the gasoline model is that it has a heated intake manifold (eletric and coolant) for heating the mixture when the engine is cold and a gasoline cold start reservoir. It works great! Before that i had a 2009 flexfuel Honda Fit, and i only used E100 for the 1,5 years it stayed with me. It only had the gasoline reservoir and i think 4 extra injectors only for the cold start. On this car (modern engines in general) if no one says the tank is full of E100 you probably wont notice. So i prefer to use ethanol because it keeps my engine clean, no black parts covered in carbon. My oil looks like new every time and i have more power avaible while keeping the combustion cool. I also love the smell!
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
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Ottumwa, Iowa
Originally Posted by Rmay635703
On PZEV vehicles like most Subaru's the gas cap won't vent, these cars truly meet the sealed tank requirements, but other cars can vent if they get very hot. On the Prius this is accomplished using a nefarious fuel tank bladder that takes up the expansion and contraction, other cars no idea. Now gas stations have their tanks underground and usually stay cool enough that they simply don't vent as much as a car but it's still unfortunate that they don't recover fumes. Ah well
All the newer station have vapor recovery when the tankers are filling them. I don't know what year that started though. You can tell when a tanker full of fumes from a newer station to fill up in our terminal. Our vapor combustion unit sounds like an after burner.
 

Pew

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Mar 12, 2018
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I'm so confused. I've always seen that "ethanol is safer for the environment." Now ethanol is bad for the environment? [censored]?
 
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Upper Midwest
Originally Posted by Pew
I'm so confused. I've always seen that "ethanol is safer for the environment." Now ethanol is bad for the environment? [censored]?
Somehow I don't think you are confused at all.
 
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Re earlier comments on "sealed caps," my 1972 Subaru had a sealed cap, and so did my ''81 Mazda. That doesn't mean their tanks weren't vented otherwise. The opposite extreme was our 1966 F-100, which steadily spurted liquid gasoline out the vented cap any time it was parked leaning slightly to the left with the tank over half full on a warm day. Very primitive, irresponsible, and wasteful venting system, even by the standards of its day.
Originally Posted by Rmay635703
... On the Prius this is accomplished using a nefarious fuel tank bladder that takes up the expansion and contraction, other cars no idea.
Only in pre-2010 Prii.
 
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Jan 5, 2008
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Central Iowa
Well, I have followed the ethanol thing since it first started showing up in the '70's. It really wasn't promoted so much back then as an emissions improvement but a way to offset our reliance on foreign oil. That has since been negated. But the other reason was, due to wild political nonsense regarding international relations, the farmers needed something to stabilize the corn market. When we would embargo some country and not sell them corn and other grains, the farmers are the ones who took the hit. Remember the farm crisis of the 80's? A lot of that grew from all the grain embargo nonsense that went on under Jimmy Carter and carried into the early years of Reagan. Ethanol production helps stabilize the market. it doesn't cause inflated corn prices for food either. Corn, when adjusted for inflation, is cheaper now than it was in the mid 1990's. And ethanol production using corn doesn't make a dent in the food supply. Only 20% of the entire U.S. corn production goes toward human consumption. Of the 80% left, only about 40% of that is used for ethanol production. And there are many other essential byproducts that come from ethanol production, so it is not some one trick pony. Ethanol production actually keeps the corn market more stable so that there are not the wild fluctuations in market prices that are detrimental. It really is no different that the soybean oil for biodiesel gig. Soybean oil had a very limited market and a lot went to waste. Once biodiesel was developed that used the stuff, it provided a way to stabilize the soybean markets so, again, there are not the massive fluctuations that screw things up. And a stable farm economy is one of the most essential things to any country. Now I will agree that many of the jurisdictional politicians have screwed things up regarding the choice in fuels available to the consumer, but that is politicians and has nothing to do with the agriculture sector.
 
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