Fram Ultra filter material failure
- Thread starter PoorMans180SX
- Start date
I know - but after seeing someone here install a XG9972 filter only to notice a discrepancy in fit as well as the filter getting crushed I decided to not to.
I took out a Service Champ or Premium Guard from a friend’s GX, it was a plastic capped on - the element was a little crushed.
The filter pleats would be fine since the filter would have a bypass. Oil in the form of cold honey isn’t going through that media.
To add to this, I don’t know about the liqui moly stuff though. I thought I read above that it was a solid? What? If that’s correct, I can see that causing many other failures besides a filter. I considered putting it in my Jeep when I became a member here. Ick.
Fram has always been my go to when not using OEM. I’m bummed to be seeing all these threads about the poor quality.
I wonder how the TRD cartridge PTR43-00082 would work, but they're like $20, royal purple cartridges look like they may be identical to TRD cartridges, Royal Purple Direct has the cartridges (20-967) for these Toyota engines for $12.99/ea or $11.99/ea if you buy 6 or more, and free shipping if you order at least $50, https://royalpurpledirect.com/royal-purple-filter-20-967/
a) Faulty or lacking glue at the failure point. If "end glue" is hot glue then any nozzle can be globbed-up and not deliver.
b) Misaligned during installation
c) Small wave in the edge of the media at that point.
d) Staged photo.
e) Mocking badly designed / built cars IN NO WAY constitutes "bashing the USA".
f) Not too long ago, the price premium for element style filters was mentioned by many because there was no can, base plate or elaborate bypass setup compared to spin-on filters. I suggested two things. The first was that element filters had been the domain of foreign marques and any part for them could be priced higher. The second was that MAYBE the elements HAD TO BE better made because you hold them in your hands directly. There was no can covering it.
The elements for the Volvos (my introduction to element style filters) seemed very well made and hard of texture. Other makers of the same filter number used a fuzzy, more giving material. Maybe the hardness is necessary.?
b) Misaligned during installation
c) Small wave in the edge of the media at that point.
d) Staged photo.
e) Mocking badly designed / built cars IN NO WAY constitutes "bashing the USA".
f) Not too long ago, the price premium for element style filters was mentioned by many because there was no can, base plate or elaborate bypass setup compared to spin-on filters. I suggested two things. The first was that element filters had been the domain of foreign marques and any part for them could be priced higher. The second was that MAYBE the elements HAD TO BE better made because you hold them in your hands directly. There was no can covering it.
The elements for the Volvos (my introduction to element style filters) seemed very well made and hard of texture. Other makers of the same filter number used a fuzzy, more giving material. Maybe the hardness is necessary.?
dnewton3
Staff member
Interesting discovery. Obviously not desirable.
My comments in no particular order ....
- Presuming that the center tube (part of the "cap") held the media in place, the media would not have really been compromised in terms of deflection during use
- Even if the above lack of deflection were taken out of the conversation, the lack of adhesion at the radial ends of the media to the "plates" is disturbing
- the plastic plates lack a retaining edge feature I've typically seen in most all other filters with "end caps" (metal end caps can have a rolled lip which would help retain the shape of the media
- It is my belief that fiber end caps would hold the adhesive better than plastic (or metal).
For sure I'd send this off to Fram, but to be fair to them you'd have to acknowledge the non-specs vis lube and the oil additive.
My comments in no particular order ....
- Presuming that the center tube (part of the "cap") held the media in place, the media would not have really been compromised in terms of deflection during use
- Even if the above lack of deflection were taken out of the conversation, the lack of adhesion at the radial ends of the media to the "plates" is disturbing
- the plastic plates lack a retaining edge feature I've typically seen in most all other filters with "end caps" (metal end caps can have a rolled lip which would help retain the shape of the media
- It is my belief that fiber end caps would hold the adhesive better than plastic (or metal).
For sure I'd send this off to Fram, but to be fair to them you'd have to acknowledge the non-specs vis lube and the oil additive.
Here is a Honda FILTECH 15400-PCX004 $13.97 premium filter with torn pleats removed from my car, run across Winter. The bypass poppet is not enough to prevent media distortion.
Photos show two pleats torn off at the base.
Attachments
See post #11, then see post #43 having to undo the seeds of doubt in response. And it did imo.
What I think happened is the new employees coming after the old were fired said “naw we can make the metal screen synthetic mesh stick to the flat plastic cap.” What did the old guys know.
Something was up. That isn’t normal.
If you could actually understand post #11 you wouldn't be trolling like you do. OP wasn't eniterly clear in his first post and so questions arise. Not hard to grasp.
BITOG have seeing that failure mode for some time now - was originally blamed as a 'Tear-O-lator' thing.
This is a well respected FILTECH. It starts ocurring in Japanese-made Tokyo Roki then many might then finally concede there IS likely a sump chemistry problem that is not commonly understood or adequately addressed.
Yes, the center tube should've prevented the media and screen from shifting inward as far as is shown in the photo. That may have prevented massive bypassing.
I've never seen, or seen a picture of, a cartridge filter with fiber end caps. Some have plastic end caps, some have none, and a few have steel.
Some posters in this thread (not you) don't seem to understand Toyota (and probably other) cartridges are under relatively constant moderate axial force from a spring in the cap. The spring takes care of any reasonable variations in filter length. Even if the cap is over-tightened, the filter won't be crushed unless it is grossly out of length tolerance or too weak to withstand the spring force---neither of which was the issue here.
Similar bonding failures were reported with Ultra 10358 cartridges several years ago. The one I examined from my niece's Corolla after ~12k miles was fine; I couldn't pull the end caps off.
dnewton3
Staff member
I have no reason to doubt your statement. My vehicles all use canister spin-on style so I don't see the catridge type from day to day.
However, there are many spin-on filters that use fiber end caps. Those type filters reall are not any different in concept to a catridge filter.
- cartridge filters have a fixed housing and replaceable cap (essentially a separable housing), and use spring pressure to seat the cartridge
- spin on filters have a housing that is part of the entire unit (not separable), and use spring pressure to seat the internal element
When you think about it, a spin-on canister filter is just nothing but a self-contained cartridge filter. Sure, different designs place the BP mechanism in different areas, and some use coil springs versus leaf spring, but they all are essentially the same at their core application.
Because fiber end caps are used in a lot of canister filters, I really don't understand why they could not be used in a cartridge filter. As you said, most cartridge filters have ends made of plastic or steel, and even some are resin only. Why would the fiber end caps not suffice in this application as well? They do just fine in canister spin-on units.
How many times did you floor it from stop to stop with cold engine? This was an issue in the past IIRC 2 or 3 destroyed engines in recent times?
Ah yes, it's all on me, there is no real pervasive problem otherwise. I also snuck in and "floored" the engines with cold oil on all the other filters with torn pleats that hve been posted on BITOG
But you did make me recall The older Nissan QR25DE engine was programmed to rev high when the CV transmission was cold. I even discussed this with the Manufacturing manager that had an Altima lease with similar engine and he mentaion the high reving when cold during warmup also . So that powertrain [rogramming could certainly be an exacerbating factor.
I avoid revving engines above 2500 rpm or flooring them when cold. Fully warmed? Yes. Cold -No.
you are right I'm sure it was just bad gas that destroyed those enginesAh yes, it's all on me, there is no real pervasive problem otherwise. I also snuck in and "floored" the engines with cold oil on all the other filters with torn pleats that hve been posted on BITOG
But you did make me recall The older Nissan QR25DE engine was programmed to rev high when the CV transmission was cold. I even discussed this with the Manufacturing manager that had an Altima lease with similar engine and he mentaion the high reving when cold during warmup also . So that powertrain [rogramming could certainly be an exacerbating factor.
I avoid revving engines above 2500 rpm or flooring them when cold. Fully warmed? Yes. Cold -No.
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