Ford's $35.1 Billion EV Fiasco

[JeffKeryk]

I agree with Jeff on this. The idea that I have to be harassed or sit through a 3 hour sales pitch to actually get a full price on a commodity is absolutely insane. Realize I worked in a dealer 30 years ago, albeit in a small town. That model is so broken its not even funny.

Companies that actually want to control their brand want away from it. Most can't due to contracts and state dealership laws aka crowny capitalism. Another reason it needs to burn down.

Possibly it will still be outsourced. No reason a 3rd party couldn't offer a new, better model not predicated on screwing customers over. For sure service could be outsourced. The model was based on a time when there wasn't even the concept of a fax machine let alone an internet, and it took a week to ship a part across the country.

Buying a Tesla is so easy; so convenient. For me it was Uber simple because I was paying cash, but your loan can be completed with a click-click-click as well. When I picked up the car at Fremont, I think the paperwork took 5 minutes. I drove and left our '18 Model 3 in the parking lot; ttle was seamlessly transferred; of course no key swaps, etc. I handed her the pink slip and the gal said, "Already done; don't need that." Simple and fast.

The dealership model overhead is expensive!

 

[dogememe]

Buying a Tesla is so easy; so convenient. For me it was Uber simple because I was paying cash, but your loan can be completed with a click-click-click as well. When I picked up the car at Fremont, I think the paperwork took 5 minutes. I drove and left our '18 Model 3 in the parking lot; ttle was seamlessly transferred; of course no key swaps, etc. I handed her the pink slip and the gal said, "Already done; don't need that." Simple and fast.

The dealership model overhead is expensive!

The difference in purchase and ownership experience between our Equinox EV and the Tesla is night and day. Dealerships ALL suck! Direct to consumer is AMAZING.

 

[alarmguy]

All cost and little value add for knowlegable car people that post on this site. There are still a ton of folks that do not know what they want and have to be sold on something that may or may not be right for them, but sold on something this group of consumers must be. Maybe someday the dodo bird will arrive in that industry, but not anytime soon IMO.

I agree, also the flipside of something is who in their the right mind spends 30, 40, 50 or $60,000 on something based on a picture on the Internet?

People who promote buying something and spending that amount of money site unseen well I got a bridge to sell you.
Oh no, let’s make it. I got a house to sell you.!

Who is the dodo bird?

 

[JeffKeryk]

I agree, also the flipside of something is who in their the right mind spends 50 or $60,000 on something based on a picture on the Internet?

People who promote buying something and spending that amount of money site unseen well I got a bridge to sell you.
Oh no, let’s make it. I got a house to sell you.!

A car is a commodity item. What is the difference between click-click-click vs going to dealerships? The time savings alone is huge.

In the case of Tesla, there are very few options, which also keeps costs down.

 

[alarmguy]

A car is a commodity item. What is the difference between click-click-click vs going to dealerships? The time savings alone is huge.

In the case of Tesla, there are very few options, which also keeps costs down.

It’s fine for people who don’t mind buying a generic type of utility vehicle.
Other than that who win their right mind spends $30-$50,000 on something they never even seen in real life. That’s why I wanna sell you a house.
But all kidding aside Tesla will never take over the marketplace like that, and the sales fee is proved that to be overwhelmingly true. The sales numbers in the United States are so horrible they may not ever be recoverable.

I do think they’ll always be around. But they are not ever going to overtake a company like General Motors, who has dealerships in every town in the United States. They will never ever come close.

 

[JeffKeryk]

It’s fine for people who don’t mind buying a generic type of utility vehicle.
Other than that who win their right mind spends $30-$50,000 on something they never even seen in real life. That’s why I wanna sell you a house.
But all kidding aside Tesla will never take over the marketplace like that, and the sales fee is proved that to be overwhelmingly true. The sales numbers in the United States are so horrible they may not ever be recoverable.

I do think they’ll always be around. But they are not ever going to overtake a company like General Motors, who has dealerships in every town in the United States. They will never ever come close.

When you pick up your Tesla you get to inspect it. If you take it, you get like 45 days to report issues, or something like that. How is that any different than any other car? The main difference is, inventory vs ordering. Cars are commodity items; houses much less so.

 

[SC Maintenance]

When you pick up your Tesla you get to inspect it. If you take it, you get like 45 days to report issues, or something like that. How is that any different than any other car? The main difference is, inventory vs ordering. Cars are commodity items; houses much less so.

You used to be able to do test drives - including you could schedule a 30 minute one at one of their sales centers - which was much better than most dealers. Is that no longer possible?

 

[fdcg27]

A lot of the views expressed in this thread reflect a rather outmoded and unsophisticated view of how transactions are done in the internet age. There is no need to see a commodity product before buying it and a new car is a commodity item.
EVs are not going away and they do garner more happy owners each year. Most buyers seem unreservedly pleased with their EVs. How many here have purchased one and not expressed satisfaction with it?
In terms of the bath Ford and GM have (both) taken on EVs to date, how much of that is in development and infrastructure investment that will be relevant to other coming projects? I'm guessing that the majority of that investment will have future utility for both companies, although GM's battery architecture may be a dead end.
Early days yet and I wouldn't count anyone out of what will be a huge EV market over the next couple of decades.
Choice is always a good thing, whether we're talking about marques or means of propulsion.

 

[alarmguy]

When you pick up your Tesla you get to inspect it. If you take it, you get like 45 days to report issues, or something like that. How is that any different than any other car? The main difference is, inventory vs ordering. Cars are commodity items; houses much less so.

How is it different? I have to buy a car before I see it or sit in the same model and type. You forget, you live in CA. Most of the country does not have a Tesla showroom within a reasonable driving distance.

 

[alarmguy]

You used to be able to do test drives - including you could schedule a 30 minute one at one of their sales centers - which was much better than most dealers. Is that no longer possible?

I can answer that. Sure you can test drive a demo.
In South Carolina, all one needs to do is drive to one of the two places in the ENTIRE state to do so.

Much the same as in NC and most the nation
https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/stores/United States

 

[SC Maintenance]

How is it different? I have to buy a car before I see it or sit in the same model and type. You forget, you live in CA. Most of the country does not have a Tesla showroom within a reasonable driving distance.

Not an EV fan, but I don't think this is true anymore. The only place there are not traditional show rooms are states that prohibit direct to consumer auto sales - like South Carolina. Welcome to crony capitalism. You can still get a test drive here though - they come to you or something?

 

[alarmguy]

Not an EV fan, but I don't think this is true anymore. The only place there are not traditional show rooms are states that prohibit direct to consumer auto sales - like South Carolina. Welcome to crony capitalism. You can still get a test drive here though - they come to you or something?

I assume you saw the link from Tesla I posted in post #90 ???
Not saying they wouldnt come to you, but are you going to buy a vehicle hours drive from a place they are located?

 

[SC Maintenance]

I can answer that. Sure you can test drive a demo.
In South Carolina, all one needs to do is drive to one of the two places in the ENTIRE state to do so.

View attachment 316146

Much the same as in NC and most the nation
https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/stores/United States

No this is not true. South Carolina prohibits direct to consumer auto sales, hence the lack of a sales store. In North Carolina there is store in Northlake mall in Charlotte I have seen. I am pretty sure there is at least one one in Raleigh somewhere. There is one in Savannah GA, which would be the closest to me.

My guess is if they could actually sell in SC they would open a store.

 

[ctechbob]

Hank Green of all people has a fairly well reasoned take on the whole EV Truck thing.



Some things I never thought of, and one of the big ones is that the dealer network probably sabotaged the Lightning to some extent. (Once you get past the physics reasons that an EV truck is kind of dumb.

Dealers are not really under any pressure to sell things that don't make them money, and ICE/Hybrids are a continual revenue stream, whereas an EV is not. Other than brakes/tires and a very rare fluid change of some form or another, there's not much maintenance revenue to be had with EV's. So what would the point of selling something that you won't make money on long-term.

 

[alarmguy]

No this is not true. South Carolina prohibits direct to consumer auto sales, hence the lack of a sales store. In North Carolina there is store in Northlake mall in Charlotte I have seen. I am pretty sure there is at least one one in Raleigh somewhere. There is one in Savannah GA, which would be the closest to me.

My guess is if they could actually sell in SC they would open a store.

You did see the Tesla link showing the two SC locations I posted to you in post #90?
"Schedule a Demo Drive" Both in Columbia and Myrtle Beach

I think we agree based on Tesla's own link, showrooms are few and far between in much the USA. Including North Carolina.

https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/stores/United+States

 

[buster]

Mache-E isn't bad.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You did see the Tesla link showing the two SC locations I posted to you in post #90?
"Schedule a Demo Drive" Both in Columbia and Myrtle Beach

I think we agree based on Tesla's own link, showrooms are few and far between in much the USA. Including North Carolina.

View attachment 316165
View attachment 316166
https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/stores/United+States

It seems you are arguing against your state's policies more than Tesla store availability.
But it is true that California has tons of dealerships of all kinds. If a manufacturer does not do business in CA, they must be pretty specialized. This is where the customers are.

I know there are a few states that prohibit direct to customer car sales, but that is not fair to the customers. They are forced to deal with dealerships; that restricts free enterprise. I guess the dealerships are pretty powerful there...
I don't know much about your area, but do you see many Teslas running around there? So I wonder how Tesla, Rivian, etc. sell cars there?

If direct sales are prohibited, how can there be any Tesla stores? Must be more to the story...

 

[SC Maintenance]

You did see the Tesla link showing the two SC locations I posted to you in post #90?
"Schedule a Demo Drive" Both in Columbia and Myrtle Beach

I think we agree based on Tesla's own link, showrooms are few and far between in much the USA. Including North Carolina.

View attachment 316165
View attachment 316166
https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/stores/United+States

So things have improved if they have actual locations now. If they have a store in Myrtle, a store in Columbia - one in Charlotte - Rock HIll is a bedroom community for Charlotte. Savannah likely draws from Hilton Head. Greenville likely has to head to Charlotte or Atlanta?

I don't really see the problem on the sales side.

 

[SC Maintenance]

It seems you are arguing against your state's policies more than Tesla store availability.
But it is true that California has tons of dealerships of all kinds. If a manufacturer does not do business in CA, they must be pretty specialized. This is where the customers are.

I know there are a few states that prohibit direct to customer car sales, but that is not fair to the customers. They are forced to deal with dealerships; that restricts free enterprise. I guess the dealerships are pretty powerful there...
I don't know much about your area, but do you see many Teslas running around there? So I wonder how Tesla, Rivian, etc. sell cars there?

If direct sales are prohibited, how can there be any Tesla stores? Must be more to the story...

South Carolina has weird laws. I could say why but it would break too many rules. It looks like there are actual stores here now. Tesla used to bring a car to you and you could drive it - my understanding. You can't stop Tesla from doing that anywhere - they just can't actually transact a car direct. I think you have to buy from one of the neighboring states. Don't know if you get it or they deliver?

 

[JeffKeryk]

You used to be able to do test drives - including you could schedule a 30 minute one at one of their sales centers - which was much better than most dealers. Is that no longer possible?

Yes there are test drives. For awhile around here, you could schedule a test drive, go to a lot and drive the car without any human intervention. You had the app on your cell so you just go drive the car. I think there were overnight options.