Ford's $35.1 Billion EV Fiasco

[JeffKeryk]

We buy vehicles typically on 5 year cycles - and they are not EV - so inventory, (starting online), knowledge, and service matter when shopping ICE vehicles … Not that I saved a couple hours … I have also built on websites and then let the search function become the “bidding” process …

I was getting a Lexus RX450h for my sister. There are a ton of Lexus dealerships in the area. I called every one ant told them what I wanted and that I was including all the local dealers. Made a spreadsheet. Putnam Lexus in Redwood City is the last of the family dealerships and they won my business.

I did the samething long distance when my niece needed a new Odyssey for her 4 girls. I called all the Honda dealers in the Arlington, TX area. That was fun.

Regardless, the dealership sales model is all cost with little benefit. It needs to go.

 

[4wd]

I was getting a Lexus RX450h for my sister. There are a ton of Lexus dealerships in the area. I called every one ant told them what I wanted and that I was including all the local dealers. Made a spreadsheet. Putnam Lexus in Redwood City is the last of the family dealerships and they won my business.

I did the samething long distance when my niece needed a new Odyssey for her 4 girls. I called all the Honda dealers in the Arlington, TX area. That was fun.

Regardless, the dealership sales model is all cost with little benefit. It needs to go.

Your opinion - not mine …
Seems a warranty debate would take a lawyer …
BTW - I hear Tesla service is not ranked high …

 

[JeffKeryk]

Your opinion - not mine …
Seems a warranty debate would take a lawyer …
BTW - I hear Tesla service is not ranked high …

The service department is a separate business from the sales department. I was referring to sales.

My only Tesla service was when the 12v battery was dying on our 2018 Model 3 after 5 years, just outta warranty. The car alerted me to contact service on my cell phone app. A mobile tech came out the next day and replaced the 12v battery (like the small 51R Honda batteries) and checked the car over. The service was $120 as I recall.

The only time I've been to service is when I purchased the Wall Charger. So my experience is pretty minimal.
I would imagine one Tesla service issue is scarcity of locations and probably trained techs. De Anza College near me offers EV tech in their automotive curriculum. I've also heard accident repair has its problems, especially with body parts.

 

[4wd]

The service department is a separate business from the sales department. I was referring to sales.

My only Tesla service was when the 12v battery was dying on our 2018 Model 3 after 5 years, just outta warranty. The car alerted me to contact service on my cell phone app. A mobile tech came out the next day and replaced the 12v battery (like the small 51R Honda batteries) and checked the car over. The service was $120 as I recall.

The only time I've been to service is when I purchased the Wall Charger. So my experience is pretty minimal.
I would imagine one Tesla service issue is scarcity of locations and probably trained techs. De Anza College near me offers EV tech in their automotive curriculum. I've also heard accident repair has its problems, especially with body parts.

I fairness - collision repair is slow motion for everyone lately

 

[k1xv]

When I was in school in the late 1950s, they us that the Soviet/Communist economy did not work because the government decided what would be made and offered for sale to the public. Many consumers did not want what was offered, and what they actually wanted was not available. On the other hand, in a free economy, sellers find out what consumers actually want, and then try to provide it.

It looks like we had a hybrid of the old Soviet system. Government decided what would be made, told car manufacturers to make them, but consumers did not want them. Even worse, government ordered that what consumers actually wanted, would no longer be available.
Where is George Carlin when we need him?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Economies are significantly driven by demand. Smart and successful entrepreneurs introduce new products and drive the market.

 

[Snoman002]

When I was in school in the late 1950s, they us that the Soviet/Communist economy did not work because the government decided what would be made and offered for sale to the public. Many consumers did not want what was offered, and what they actually wanted was not available. On the other hand, in a free economy, sellers find out what consumers actually want, and then try to provide it.

It looks like we had a hybrid of the old Soviet system. Government decided what would be made, told car manufacturers to make them, but consumers did not want them. Even worse, government ordered that what consumers actually wanted, would no longer be available.
Where is George Carlin when we need him?

Except none of that actually happened.

The government never told them TO make EVs, what they did was demand emission goals. The manufactures chose what to make. If they were made to make EVs Dodge would actually have some.

Consumers are buying them. At one point Tesla was selling as many vehicles as Ford Motor Company, and last I looked they still were not far off. 10% of overall sales are still MILLIONs of automobiles. You also have to consider the immensely politically biased US public.

The government never actually stopped production of anything. There was a lot of hand waving and claims that WOULD happen, but yet never even came close to that.

In fact, what is closer to happening is uncontrolled open market. In a pure open market its often better to drive a competitor out rather than compete with it. Amazon, Walmart coming to town and selling at a loss to drive local stores out, large gas station chains selling gas at a loss to drive local stores out, plenty of examples of this. Lets not forget buying political connections. Communism isn't the answer, but don't think one good, one bad, thus if we see bad it must be from the bad one.

 

[k1xv]

If the emission limits are impossible to meet with 100% ICE vehicles, then you are being told you have to make something else with less emissions. To say otherwise is like saying, if I twist your arm very hard, I never made you scream. Your decision to scream was 100% voluntary.

 

[alarmguy]

Except none of that actually happened.

The government never told them TO make EVs, what they did was demand emission goals. The manufactures chose what to make. If they were made to make EVs Dodge would actually have some.

Consumers are buying them. At one point Tesla was selling as many vehicles as Ford Motor Company, and last I looked they still were not far off. 10% of overall sales are still MILLIONs of automobiles. You also have to consider the immensely politically biased US public.

The government never actually stopped production of anything. There was a lot of hand waving and claims that WOULD happen, but yet never even came close to that.

In fact, what is closer to happening is uncontrolled open market. In a pure open market its often better to drive a competitor out rather than compete with it. Amazon, Walmart coming to town and selling at a loss to drive local stores out, large gas station chains selling gas at a loss to drive local stores out, plenty of examples of this. Lets not forget buying political connections. Communism isn't the answer, but don't think one good, one bad, thus if we see bad it must be from the bad one.

HUH ????
1. Emission goals that could not be met = effective ban no longer in effect though

2. The most inaccurate part of your post is saying Tesla "was selling as many vehicles as Ford Motor Company"
How about we stick to the USA?

A. Tesla 2024 TOTAL USA sales = 662,762
B. Ford 2024 TOTAL USA sales = 2,080,00 (2 million Eighty Thousand)

Tesla USA sales remain in the toilet and still declining, estimates are they were down 20% in the 4th quarter of 2025

BTW- (year 2024) on a global scale Ford sold 4.5 million vehicles
Tesla sold 1.79 million vehicles

 

[4wd]

Economies are significantly driven by demand. Smart and successful entrepreneurs introduce new products and drive the market.

Tesla has been successful with cars. That doesn’t drive an economy - look for trucks as a greater indicator of that …
(I do like your Elon age 9 cyber truck)

 

[SC Maintenance]

The government never actually stopped production of anything. There was a lot of hand waving and claims that WOULD happen, but yet never even came close to that.

CAFE affectively did. Your fleet had to meet their requirements for CAFE, and the calculation for EV's eMPG is so perversely skewed to its benefit - as has been shown on this site many times, that is exactly what the government was doing.

If they were made to make EVs Dodge would actually have some.

Stellantis in the past has purchased carbon credits to offset their fleet. One of the reasons they have been doing somewhat poorly in the USA financially. They do have plenty of EV's in Europe, and they were working on an e-Ram which I think is on hold. It would have been interesting to see what they might have done had the crazy CAFE levels stayed in place.

And FWIW - I could care less if one or all of the Auto OEM's went belly up. In fact a few need to - its part of a free markets creative destruction.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Tesla has been successful with cars. That doesn’t drive an economy - look for trucks as a greater indicator of that …
(I do like your Elon age 9 cyber truck)

Well, I am not waiting for the Cybertruck to save the world's economy any time soon... Ha!
But Tesla does employ 25K workers in Fremont; they are the biggest employer in the area.
Now about that CT...

 

[4wd]

Well, I am not waiting for the Cybertruck to save the world's economy any time soon... Ha!
But Tesla does employ 25K workers in Fremont; they are the biggest employer in the area.
Now about that CT...
View attachment 318447

Or upgrade this?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Or upgrade this?

Yeah, it's pretty clear where Elon got his design from... Ha!

 

[4wd]

Yeah, it's pretty clear where Elon got his design from... Ha!

I always thought he was trolling us or the military - how do you consistently design attractive sedans - and then
It might be a stealth gunner around the corner !

 

[JeffKeryk]

I always thought he was trolling us or the military - how do you consistently design attractive sedans - and then
It might be a stealth gunner around the corner !

He got too full of himself. Succe$$ will do that to you. And then he entered the P word. Oops.

 

[4wd]

He got too full of himself. Succe$$ will do that to you. And then he entered the P word. Oops.

The military can scoop them for 50 cents on the dollar when the show ends … then a few bucks in mods …

 

[Torrid]

I think I might buy a Cybertruck since the hate comments just for owning a Tesla have really calmed down. The Cybertruck is catching the most of it still.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Now add that the EU has backtracked on their 2035 ice ban. It will be interesting to see where that goes.

Today, Feb 5, 2026, the government of Canada also got rid of the 2035 ice ban.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I think I might buy a Cybertruck since the hate comments just for owning a Tesla have really calmed down. The Cybertruck is catching the most of it still.

Ha ha ha. We passed one on the highway yesterday. Wife was like "what could one possibly NEED one of those for?" I really had no answer for her. I just wonder how that body will hold up and look after several years? Those will likely end up something like the DeLoreans did. Collector items rarely driven. By the way, What do they cost ? Anyone?