Ford's $35.1 Billion EV Fiasco

[JeffKeryk]

South Carolina has weird laws. I could say why but it would break too many rules. It looks like there are actual stores here now. Tesla used to bring a car to you and you could drive it - my understanding. You can't stop Tesla from doing that anywhere - they just can't actually transact a car direct. I think you have to buy from one of the neighboring states. Don't know if you get it or they deliver?

Our 2018 was delivered to our home; wifey signed the papers at our kitchen table. We picked up the 2024 at the factory in Fremont, maybe 20 miles from here.

 

[alarmguy]

It seems you are arguing against your state's policies more than Tesla store availability.
But it is true that California has tons of dealerships of all kinds. If a manufacturer does not do business in CA, they must be pretty specialized. This is where the customers are.

I know there are a few states that prohibit direct to customer car sales, but that is not fair to the customers. They are forced to deal with dealerships; that restricts free enterprise. I guess the dealerships are pretty powerful there...
I don't know much about your area, but do you see many Teslas running around there? So I wonder how Tesla, Rivian, etc. sell cars there?

If direct sales are prohibited, how can there be any Tesla stores? Must be more to the story...

Not at all, does anyone look at the links I posted?
What states policies in SC? They have just as little places to test drive a Tesla than many other states. Look at the link, dozens of states all over the USA, hours long ride if you want to touch, feel, sit in and test drive a Tesla.

Come on now we have some of the most educated people in this forum. Why the heck are we just mentioning South Carolina>??
Why do I feel I have to post screen shots of all the other states lacking facilities to test drive them?
Look at the link. Are you going to say the same of North Carolina too? or the couple dozen other states?

https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/stores/United+States

 

[alarmguy]

So things have improved if they have actual locations now. If they have a store in Myrtle, a store in Columbia - one in Charlotte - Rock HIll is a bedroom community for Charlotte. Savannah likely draws from Hilton Head. Greenville likely has to head to Charlotte or Atlanta?

I don't really see the problem on the sales side.

Yeah, hours long drive for people in NC who dont live in the handful of places you can see and sit in a Demo. It's not just here though, it's all over the country. That was my only point to my post on the subject. Who in their right mind will spend $40,000 to $60,000 to buy a car online that they never sat or test drove. To do that in the majority of the USA its hours long drive and will be a turn off to a nearby dealer of another company. All good, no debate from me.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yeah, hours long drive for people in NC who dont live in the handful of places you can see and sit in a Demo. It's not just here though, it's all over the country. That was my only point to my post on the subject. Who in their right mind will spend $40,000 to $60,000 to buy a car online that they never sat or test drove. To do that in the majority of the USA its hours long drive and will be a turn off to a nearby dealer of another company. All good, no debate from me.

I get your point - but 80% of the country lives in a city. Even in NC - 80% of people live in the I-85 corridor - so Charlotte, Greensboro and Raleigh have a showroom, meaning 80% of NC is an hour from one.

SC is worse. None in Charleston, none in Greenville - so I would guess Myrtle, Cola and Rock Hill is maybe less than 50% of the state. But I think those are new - I don't remember us having any not long ago. I imagine they will add stores in Greenville and Charleston if they are allowed to. South Carolina is a small state. Los Angeles Metro is 3.5X more people than the entire state.

 

[RBT]

Toyotas low risk approach as a major manufacturer adopting EVs could prove out to be one of their best decisions. As for some of their recent engineering missteps, well....Tundra, I'm talking about you.

There was widespread press making fun of the Toyoda grandson for taking a cautious approach to EVs and advocating for hybrids instead. Right now it is pretty clear that they chose the correct path. Climate hysteria has caused greater damage than climate change.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Not at all, does anyone look at the links I posted?
What states policies in SC? They have just as little places to test drive a Tesla than many other states. Look at the link, dozens of states all over the USA, hours long ride if you want to touch, feel, sit in and test drive a Tesla.

Come on now we have some of the most educated people in this forum. Why the heck are we just mentioning South Carolina>??
Why do I feel I have to post screen shots of all the other states lacking facilities to test drive them?
Look at the link. Are you going to say the same of North Carolina too? or the couple dozen other states?

https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/stores/United+States

Probably because I specifically mentioned SC. No its not the only state but you are the one that brought up its difficult for people to get service or test drive or whatever with their direct model. No we can't buy direct here. Another stupid rule for SC. But I don't feel per "life liberty and property" any government has any right to tell me how to buy any legal product. Yes, I love the state, but not the morons in charge. I digress.

You could always take a test drive here - they brought them to you or something. Per your link it appears we have some stores now. They can service them - the state cannot stop that. If you don't want to own one - don't - I don't either. But there are plenty of options to get one if you do.

 

[rijndael]

Throw in some rolling blackouts, from a hot summer and more EVs, and it'll get super interesting.

We didn't even need the hot summer to see fun items about FSD and EVs:

https://abc7news.com/post/videos-sh...wer-outage-company-suspends-service/18304634/

 

[SC Maintenance]

We didn't even need the hot summer to see fun items about FSD and EVs:

https://abc7news.com/post/videos-sh...wer-outage-company-suspends-service/18304634/

For those TLDR - the power went out so the Waymo's didn't know what to do with a flashing red. So they just sat at the red lights and stopped traffic. Software bug obviously. Its surprising someone at Waymo couldn't have anticipated this. Really not an EV problem - a self driving problem.

I also don't see self driving being a thing for a while either, but in fairness I have seen human drivers sit in the middle of the street, frozen, for such things also. At least humans understand what a horn is.

 

[buster]

Funny.

 

[Brons2]

And yet mine (Pro Extended Range) was OTD for less than MSRP of a base model XL of FAR lower spec. Generally speaking the prices were within $2000 of the equivalent gas model. The price DID go up, but so did the price of everything else.

ProER eh? That's cool, they didn't make a lot of those. Unicorn truck.

 

[Brons2]

Our dealership won’t touch EV - that’s not helping - so, yet another (3rd generation) dealer just now dropping all but Chevy/GMC has impacts (for decades they sold all GM lines) …

There are dealers in the Houston area that do lots of EVs. There's one that is particularly active on Leasehackr with one-pay leases. They move a lot of Blazer EVs.

 

[Brons2]

You used to be able to do test drives - including you could schedule a 30 minute one at one of their sales centers - which was much better than most dealers. Is that no longer possible?

You can still do demo drives at any Tesla outlet. I did one a couple of months ago for our curious friends from Brazil.

 

[SC Maintenance]

You can still do demo drives at any Tesla outlet. I did one a couple of months ago for our curious friends from Brazil.

So what is a Tesla Outlet? Is that same as there retail store - which again - we didn't have any in SC till recently. However @alarmguy has enlightened me we have 2 in the state now.

However we can still do test drives here even without a store. I am unsure how. Maybe I should book one?

 

[Brons2]

Not at all, does anyone look at the links I posted?
What states policies in SC? They have just as little places to test drive a Tesla than many other states. Look at the link, dozens of states all over the USA, hours long ride if you want to touch, feel, sit in and test drive a Tesla.

Come on now we have some of the most educated people in this forum. Why the heck are we just mentioning South Carolina>??
Why do I feel I have to post screen shots of all the other states lacking facilities to test drive them?
Look at the link. Are you going to say the same of North Carolina too? or the couple dozen other states?

https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/stores/United+States

The history of dealership laws at the state level is interesting to study. These laws came into being in the 1920s and 1930s when it became normal for every family to own a car. People came to rely on vehicles and needed a local support network. The dealership/franchise laws required the OEMs to have that local support if they wanted to sell vehicles in the state.

Of course fast forward to today and now the dealership industry is a very powerful political lobby. They make a lot of money off of sales and service. They aren't just going to roll over for manufacturer to consumer direct sales.

It's notable that direct internet sales sites like Carvana and Vroom only deal in used cars. They don't want to take on the dealership lobby, is my take on this.

 

[Brons2]

So what is a Tesla Outlet? Is that same as there retail store - which again - we didn't have any in SC till recently. However @alarmguy has enlightened me we have 2 in the state now.

However we can still do test drives here even without a store. I am unsure how. Maybe I should book one?

I don't think that's the official name of it. But they more or less will stage vehicles for demo drives in various places with a small indoor space, like at a mall. There are 4 different places I can go in my metro area to demo drive a Tesla. But there's only one service center. Interestingly the Tesla app no longer lists the service center as a place you can go for a demo drive, but I have done one there before about a year and a half ago.

When I took our Brazilian friends to test out a Cybertruck a couple months back, it was at The Domain in Austin, which is kind of like an outdoor mixed use mall, managed by the mall group Simon Properties. Tesla has a little showroom among the boutique shops (the Gucci and Louis Vuitton stores are right across the street) and then the vehicles for demo drives are in the parking garage directly behind the storefronts.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The history of dealership laws at the state level is interesting to study. These laws came into being in the 1920s and 1930s when it became normal for every family to own a car. People came to rely on vehicles and needed a local support network. The dealership/franchise laws required the OEMs to have that local support if they wanted to sell vehicles in the state.

Of course fast forward to today and now the dealership industry is a very powerful political lobby. They make a lot of money off of sales and service. They aren't just going to roll over for manufacturer to consumer direct sales.

It's notable that direct internet sales sites like Carvana and Vroom only deal in used cars. They don't want to take on the dealership lobby, is my take on this.

Musk was the only one (so far) with the stones to take on the dealer lobby.

The fact the dealer lobby has usurped my constitutional rights is the reason I would buy direct if I could. I worked at a dealer decades ago. The owner sat in the corner office every day. Even then he was a wealthy man, he had no need to even acknowledge my existence - I was the wash kid. Yet he did. He treated me and the other employees very well. He taught me many things about life and business. He was great man.

He would roll over in his grave to see the shenanigans of dealers today.

 

[alarmguy]

Probably because I specifically mentioned SC. No its not the only state but you are the one that brought up its difficult for people to get service or test drive or whatever with their direct model. No we can't buy direct here. Another stupid rule for SC. But I don't feel per "life liberty and property" any government has any right to tell me how to buy any legal product. Yes, I love the state, but not the morons in charge. I digress.

You could always take a test drive here - they brought them to you or something. Per your link it appears we have some stores now. They can service them - the state cannot stop that. If you don't want to own one - don't - I don't either. But there are plenty of options to get one if you do.

The history of dealership laws at the state level is interesting to study. These laws came into being in the 1920s and 1930s when it became normal for every family to own a car. People came to rely on vehicles and needed a local support network. The dealership/franchise laws required the OEMs to have that local support if they wanted to sell vehicles in the state.

Of course fast forward to today and now the dealership industry is a very powerful political lobby. They make a lot of money off of sales and service. They aren't just going to roll over for manufacturer to consumer direct sales.

It's notable that direct internet sales sites like Carvana and Vroom only deal in used cars. They don't want to take on the dealership lobby, is my take on this.

Here is interesting stats. Some may not realize a state like SC or NC or NY is by no means in the minority.

Source -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-to-consumer_automobile_selling_in_the_United_States

 

[4wd]

There are dealers in the Houston area that do lots of EVs. There's one that is particularly active on Leasehackr with one-pay leases. They move a lot of Blazer EVs.

Yeah, I see them when we go to Houston.
What matters is sustainability and that’s a young subject for GM EV’s … Sales/service of all classes of ICE trucks and SUV’s does not need a rework - so some have elected to focus on that.

Our Ford lot is more interesting - very heavy on Super Duty as before - but now carries the widest/largest selection ever after dropping Lincoln. They have one Lightning!

 

[SeaJay]

Car guys know what they want and how they want it. The other buyers who don't know exactly what they want are currently getting what they need. Maybe some process to give both what they want will be invented.

 

[4wd]

A car is a commodity item. What is the difference between click-click-click vs going to dealerships? The time savings alone is huge.

In the case of Tesla, there are very few options, which also keeps costs down.

We buy vehicles typically on 5 year cycles - and they are not EV - so inventory, (starting online), knowledge, and service matter when shopping ICE vehicles … Not that I saved a couple hours … I have also built on websites and then let the search function become the “bidding” process …