Ford V10motor locked up
- Thread starter Cathy Covington
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I guess we all could say that the moral of the story here is not to let yourself get into a situation like this. I'm sure that everyone that reads this thread now understands what can happen if they don't follow the recommended oil change intervals from the manufacturer.
Sure you could take them to court and maybe win, but why would you want to go thru all of that frusteration and stress? Not me. If I ever get another new vehicle I will follow the warranty again until the warranty is used up.
Sure you could take them to court and maybe win, but why would you want to go thru all of that frusteration and stress? Not me. If I ever get another new vehicle I will follow the warranty again until the warranty is used up.
Voidable, not necessarily void.
This from the warranty booklet for the new Pontiac GTO I bought Monday afternoon:
"Owner's Warranty Responsibilities
As the vehicle owner, you are responsible for the performance of the scheduled maintenance listed in your owner manual.
....
As the vehicle owner, you should also be aware that GM may deny warranty coverage if your vehicle or a part has failed due to abuse, neglect, improper or insufficient maintenance, or modifications not approved by GM."
***** Gary!
I get the concept. Can I have my head back? Seriously speaking. I was always under the impression (falsely I guess) that any failure of the proper service and you were up the creek. I guess one would have to read the fine print. So if the burden is on the maker, then following the owners manual is really simply to avoid the argument should something arise. I
I get the concept. Can I have my head back? Seriously speaking. I was always under the impression (falsely I guess) that any failure of the proper service and you were up the creek. I guess one would have to read the fine print. So if the burden is on the maker, then following the owners manual is really simply to avoid the argument should something arise. I
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Frank ..did I make it sound like I was
or
you?
Sorry ...
Yes, this sort of situation is most easily avoided by never allowing it to occur to begin with. The thing, and I think this is more of a social/cultural thing, is that we're hung up on interpretting things in terms of "specific performance" as though they are keystones (or glue) in holding the entire agreement together.
That is, we view things as a literal argument and they fall along the lines of Socrates and the Counsel (or an argument with our spouse). Socrates call the counsel baffoons. The counsel reflex reaction is "Well, you're a hen pecked husband!". This is where most draw the line of "win, lose, or stalemate" ..pointing out like defects in the "other". They tend to ingore, or be unaware of, the alternative..
Socrates, instead of reflex accusation, thinks and says, "You're right, I am hen pecked ..but that doesn't alter the fact that you're still baffoons". The presense of one "defect" doesn't negate the presense of the other.
Anyway ...I'll paraphase the words of our infamous social philosopher, Rodney King .."Can we all just get along?"
Sorry ...
Yes, this sort of situation is most easily avoided by never allowing it to occur to begin with. The thing, and I think this is more of a social/cultural thing, is that we're hung up on interpretting things in terms of "specific performance" as though they are keystones (or glue) in holding the entire agreement together.
That is, we view things as a literal argument and they fall along the lines of Socrates and the Counsel (or an argument with our spouse). Socrates call the counsel baffoons. The counsel reflex reaction is "Well, you're a hen pecked husband!". This is where most draw the line of "win, lose, or stalemate" ..pointing out like defects in the "other". They tend to ingore, or be unaware of, the alternative..
Socrates, instead of reflex accusation, thinks and says, "You're right, I am hen pecked ..but that doesn't alter the fact that you're still baffoons". The presense of one "defect" doesn't negate the presense of the other.
Anyway ...I'll paraphase the words of our infamous social philosopher, Rodney King .."Can we all just get along?"
I agree 100% with all that.
Makes sense to me. I guess I'm a little on the judgemental side of things. I find myself scolding my reletives and freinds, "you better get that car in for its service" LOL. Funny how perception is tweeked based on years of "I thought thats how it always was"
I also find myself urging my friends and relatives to get their vehicles in for service, to prevent damage to their vehicles.
Interesting thread, interesting topic. Here's my $0.02 worth.
A young(ish) female coworker recently bought a new Chevrolet Cavalier. Her previous car, a Kia, was only a couple of years old. When I asked her why she no longer had the Kia, she told me that the automatic transmission had failed at 71,000 miles and Kia would not honor the 100,000 mile warranty that it offers in the US. The reason was that she had failed to get transmission fluid changes at 15K, 30K, and 60K miles as the owner's manual clearly stated. She told me (paraphrased), "But I'm just a little blonde! Nobody reads the manual! I shouldn't be expected to read the owner's manual!" Kia didn't fall for the poor-little-dumb-blonde act, nor should it have.
Manufacturers will look for any reason possible to deny a warranty. By now this should be common knowledge, but too many people still seem not to have a clue. Instead, owners will try to weasel a new engine or transmission to replace the one that failed due to their own negligence. The manufacturers know better. Negligence is, after all, a form of abuse.
Keep in mind that another thread raised the question of changing the oil and filter after an engine failure in an Explorer to try to cheat Ford, even though the dealer had already documented that the failure was due to loss of oil from not maintaining the vehicle. Just about everybody who responded condemned the idea of trying to defraud Ford.
The situation here in this thread does not involve the idea of fraud, but it does involve lack of maintenance. I'm surprised that so many here seem to be saying to try to make Ford eat the engine. Cathy got off light, in my book.
A young(ish) female coworker recently bought a new Chevrolet Cavalier. Her previous car, a Kia, was only a couple of years old. When I asked her why she no longer had the Kia, she told me that the automatic transmission had failed at 71,000 miles and Kia would not honor the 100,000 mile warranty that it offers in the US. The reason was that she had failed to get transmission fluid changes at 15K, 30K, and 60K miles as the owner's manual clearly stated. She told me (paraphrased), "But I'm just a little blonde! Nobody reads the manual! I shouldn't be expected to read the owner's manual!" Kia didn't fall for the poor-little-dumb-blonde act, nor should it have.
Manufacturers will look for any reason possible to deny a warranty. By now this should be common knowledge, but too many people still seem not to have a clue. Instead, owners will try to weasel a new engine or transmission to replace the one that failed due to their own negligence. The manufacturers know better. Negligence is, after all, a form of abuse.
Keep in mind that another thread raised the question of changing the oil and filter after an engine failure in an Explorer to try to cheat Ford, even though the dealer had already documented that the failure was due to loss of oil from not maintaining the vehicle. Just about everybody who responded condemned the idea of trying to defraud Ford.
The situation here in this thread does not involve the idea of fraud, but it does involve lack of maintenance. I'm surprised that so many here seem to be saying to try to make Ford eat the engine. Cathy got off light, in my book.
I agree with the manufacturer in this case. Everyone needs to own up to their responsibilities.
Hey ,being cute blond female and a customer would certainly sway my decision as I am a radical, leftwing, AARP member with a agenda !
I mean who do you want to do business with, some ugly old guy or a cute blond female ?
Seriously , she should have taken a oil sample and if the fluid was serviceable she would have a strong case against KIA. The change intervals are not arbitrary but designed to get the customer back in to extract money from them.
Send her to BITOG for some edumication.
I mean who do you want to do business with, some ugly old guy or a cute blond female ?
Seriously , she should have taken a oil sample and if the fluid was serviceable she would have a strong case against KIA. The change intervals are not arbitrary but designed to get the customer back in to extract money from them.
Send her to BITOG for some edumication.
Amkeer,
I am a regular client of Terrys, are you? I pay him to listen to him. Just because some of us feel that the manufacture shouldn't fork over motors on a whim dosen't mean that we are beneath you or lack intelligence. This is why there are courts. Two reasonable people can look at the same issue and differ greatly in opinion and interpitation. My proof is even though Terry is a left wing nutcase, I still think he's the best UOA read money can buy. And by the way, If this is so cut and dry in the owners favor, she was a fool to pay $2,000. I think it was a fair and reasonable comprimise of both parties. Both arguments had SOME merrit.
I am a regular client of Terrys, are you? I pay him to listen to him. Just because some of us feel that the manufacture shouldn't fork over motors on a whim dosen't mean that we are beneath you or lack intelligence. This is why there are courts. Two reasonable people can look at the same issue and differ greatly in opinion and interpitation. My proof is even though Terry is a left wing nutcase, I still think he's the best UOA read money can buy. And by the way, If this is so cut and dry in the owners favor, she was a fool to pay $2,000. I think it was a fair and reasonable comprimise of both parties. Both arguments had SOME merrit.
No, I recommended she pay the $2000 since I think she is too nice and inevitably would have paid for the whole thing.
In the end it really brakes down to what side of the fence you want to see win. A nice family taking the time with their kids while they still are kids or a greedy, billion dollar, corporation trying to squeeze out profits to raise stock price from single digits. Pick your side! Personally I look at the facts and then choose.
The courts are very specific and not opinionated, especially with expert testimony.
If people are just going to give cash away cause they are to lazy to do their homework, then who wins? I would rather win the case and take my family on a vacation or donate to a worthwhile cause.
In the end it really brakes down to what side of the fence you want to see win. A nice family taking the time with their kids while they still are kids or a greedy, billion dollar, corporation trying to squeeze out profits to raise stock price from single digits. Pick your side! Personally I look at the facts and then choose.
The courts are very specific and not opinionated, especially with expert testimony.
If people are just going to give cash away cause they are to lazy to do their homework, then who wins? I would rather win the case and take my family on a vacation or donate to a worthwhile cause.
Lets further simplify this:
I am the consumer. "Oooops, I just remembered that interval I told you was wrong! That interval was on my Landcruiser! The interval on the RV was more like 3700 miles." No reciepts..
What do you do? Answer objectively and really, I mean REALLY think about this without the luxury of what is written in previous posts. WHAT DO YOU DO?
I am the consumer. "Oooops, I just remembered that interval I told you was wrong! That interval was on my Landcruiser! The interval on the RV was more like 3700 miles." No reciepts..
What do you do? Answer objectively and really, I mean REALLY think about this without the luxury of what is written in previous posts. WHAT DO YOU DO?
I think the value percentage of your investment of your overall net worth should dictate what level of maintenance, and recordkeeping, should be. For instance, if your net worth is $600,000 , and you drive a $150,000 RV, your interest in this investment is different that someone whos net worth is $55,000 and driving a $32,000 work/commuter vehicle.
Ok now I understand, profits are evil and no one should have them. Guess I'm greedy for accepting my compensation for services and products I provide.
Thats not the case Frank! I have to have profits in my business in order to survive. Every company needs profits. It becomes greed when you take advantage of others naivity to fight to effect your bottom line. If you are ok with this then thats your choice. I am not!
Whats the answer to my 3700 mile interval? They only had 3700 miles on the interval, what do you do? Answer that. Actually lets make it 3001 and 1 month. How does that effect things? What about 5020 miles and 2 months? What about 6500 miles and 2 filter changes? Answer, its all irrelevant since a PROFESSIONAL UOA WAS DONE and determined that the oil was getting close to the end of its life, but IT WAS NOT SPENT!
So in order to side with the manufacturer you would need visible sludge, deposits, clogged pick up and a UOA that was not fit for service, correct? How many miles do you think this oil would last in a 10 quart sump mostly driven on the highway? We already know this interval was ok, correct? So how long do you think this oil would last?
Whats the answer to my 3700 mile interval? They only had 3700 miles on the interval, what do you do? Answer that. Actually lets make it 3001 and 1 month. How does that effect things? What about 5020 miles and 2 months? What about 6500 miles and 2 filter changes? Answer, its all irrelevant since a PROFESSIONAL UOA WAS DONE and determined that the oil was getting close to the end of its life, but IT WAS NOT SPENT!
So in order to side with the manufacturer you would need visible sludge, deposits, clogged pick up and a UOA that was not fit for service, correct? How many miles do you think this oil would last in a 10 quart sump mostly driven on the highway? We already know this interval was ok, correct? So how long do you think this oil would last?
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