Bypass filters also cost more than full flow filters. The factory installed bypass filters are pretty much junk.
Ford tractor 8N oil canister converted to TP filter
- Thread starter sdowney717
- Start date
You keep saying in this thread that an engine doesn't need a full-full filter because there's nothing big to catch. I keep saying you need both a full-flow and a bypass filter to have the correct setup for using a bypass filter in the system. I said if you think an engine only needs a bypass filter, then why don't engines today only come with a good bypass filter if you think that's the best way to filter oil. Then you say: "Frantz or Motor Guard or both had a Ford engineers report that said engines need both a full flow filter and a bypass filter" ... which is what I've been saying all along. Seems to be some kind of contradictions going on.
You're talking about VWs made 60 years ago. So adding even a bypass filter to those was better than what they came with from the factory. And frequent oil changes were the best way to keep the oil clean when you only have a door screen for a filter. People that didn't add better filtering or didn't do frequent oil changes wore those engines out pretty fast compared to engines today.
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I have 3 engines that dont need a full flow filter. A Pontiac a Chevrolet and a very old Kohler. The Kohler has no oil pump. The Chevy is a 86 model. Has a Motor Guard oil cleaner. The 06 Pontiac has a Australian Jackmaster Classic. I have a habit of opening the full flow filter and checking to see what it is eating.
Oil changes dont help much. You are letting the oil get dirty then draining it. The old beetle is one engine that needed both a full flow filter and a bypass filter. Not like my old 84 Subaru that did fine with only a bypass filter. Full flow filters are available for the old beetles now. Not sure they were available for my wifes beetle. It took too long for me to get the junk yard out of the oil 1/2 teaspoon at a time with the Motor Guard.
Some engines are dirtier than others. If you dont remove the small stuff the big stuff will bite you. Even my riding mowers have Gulf Coast and Motor Guards plus Ford full flow filters. I only have one more adapter to eliminate the full flow filters. Probably use it on the Pontiac. The other day my wife says congratulations we have been married 9 years. Thats how long ive been driving her Pontiac. No oil drains and 1 full flow filter change 70.000 miles.About 10 bypass filter changes. 210.000 miles total.
With only the Frantz the oil gets 100 percent cleaned several times going like 20 miles to work like in warm weather. Might be a different story in very cold weather. No such thing as a Frantz full flow filter.
No such thing as a high efficiency spin on filter Car Quest has spin on filters for the Rambler. I think they claim 10 microns. Motor Guard has always claimed submicronic. Gulf Coast Filters claims 99 percent at under 1 micron for their 10 quart filter. The Jackmaster Classic claims 1 micron if you use their paper. I take all claims with a grain of salt.
A spin-on full flow filter with an efficiency of 99% @20u or better is considered high efficency. Of course they aren't going to be as high of an efficiency as a true bypass filter. Both are used for differnt purposes. If you're going to use a bypass filter with a spin-on (which is the right way to setup a bypass filter system), then using a high efficiency spin-on in conjunction with the bypass filter is the best way to go. Just using a bypass filter without any full flow filter in the system is not the ideal filtering system. Anyone making a bypass filter these days will say that - like Amsoil for instance. Using just a bypass filter only is going back to what was done 60+ years ago.
No such thing as running a Frantz as a full
Yeah, as I stated before, no super efficient bypass filter media can take full flow because it's too flow restrictive. That's why they are called "bypass filters".
I have installed a few of those. Motor Guard also had them. Some people figured if the full flow filter isnt cleaning oil I want it off. They also worked with some hot rods where there was a full flow filter clearance problem
Full flow filters have nothing to do with cleaning oil. My bypass filter completely cleans 100 percent of the oil several times going into town.
I am running a full flow, 20 year old Fram HP1, I looked back in the search, 40-50 microns, I don't worry one bit, its there to get the big stuff, the Frantz made the oil look like it was poured out of the bottle, 72' mustang old school 351c.
Amsoil had a bypass filter in the 80s that might have been as good as a toilet paper filter. It was a canister type bypass filter. A layered filter element. They had Bobby Unser saying this oil change is forever. At the time I was using Amsoil 10 40 and a Frantz oil cleaner. 99percent at 20 u isnt very good.
Sure they do. You're just going in circles claiming that an engine only needs a bypass filter with no full flow filter in the system. No modern bypass filter manufacterer these days recomends that kind of setup on an internal combustion engine - especially on a diesel. They might have 70 years ago, but not now. Engine oil filtering wasn't totally dialed in 70 years ago like it is now.
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I hear you. The last time I cut open a full flow filter it was off the Pontiac. It had 65.000 miles on it and was clean. The pleats were getting rotten but still in one piece. That told me two things. The Pontiac doesnt need a full flow filter and its not good to leave a full flow filter on too long unless maybe its synthetic. It was common for people to never change the full flow filter. Probably not a good idea. If I decide to take it to the drag strip I might remove the Australian Jackmaster Classic and install 2 or 3 full flow filters in parallel.
I dont think I said the the 292 big 6 had engine problems. It had over 300.000 miles on it when I left. Most of it with no oil drains. Cant say he didnt change the oil when he added a new quart of oil every 2.000 miles. Oil was harder to keep clean in those days. The Pontiac gets a new quart of oil every 6.000 miles. For the last 2 years ive been experimenting with different paper probably added too much new oil.
The boss asked me about putting a Frantz on the dragster. He was joking. You dont put a bypass filter on a dragster.
I don't think it was the owner's ignorance. Since this post I've seen a few other old vehicles for sale with the frantz filter installed. One was a 63 Mercury Monterey I think it was and it was installed in a similar fashion to how mine was. Spin on filter eliminated and the hose was plumbed into one of the valve covers for a return. Also saw a mid 60's Oldsmobile installed in the exact same fashion. Seems like there wasn't any other way to install them back then and use a spin on filter with it unless you got creative with it. I can tell you one thing is for sure though, I have never seen a crankshaft so worn than that 352 that ran with that TP oil filter all those years. I could catch the wear pattern from the oiling grove in the bearings on the mains with my fingernails. Not scored up but highly polished from abrasion. That engine had good service records most of its life. Compared to the 220-230K mile 1968 390 crank I took out of an engine that polished up and measured to factory spec that had crappy service records the 28 years it was on the road driven by the same person using a spin on filter. I'll take the spin on filter y'all can keep that stuff for yourselves if you want to use it.
OK, mine had a 3/4-16 spin on adapter for the two hoses that fit in place of the spin on filter, must have came with it? What would that have properly worked on back then? I don't know why I even bother to ask, I could care less at this point.
