First TP change for Frantz oil filter

[sifan]

After drivng 377 miles on the first roll of TP with the original oil I decided to change the oil. The reason was that the engine had not been zippy ever since the installation of Frantz filter. The engine felt like running under high oil pressure despite I drained some oil to ensure no overfill here. However, the gas mileage remained excellet at 46 miles per gallon. The engine must be working extra hard trying to push oil thru the dirty TP.

When I took out the used TP, it looked really dirty. What really surprised me was that there were lots of sparkling metal particles and even some small metal bits in the oil. I remember I had seen a member of this forum reported the same finding. When I did the first oil change after breaking in my engine at 1000 mile, I did not see this much metal junk. I wonder how this happened? Did this happen to your first TP change, too?

After installing the new TP I added 5 quarts of M1 5W30 oil, and checked the oil level right after engine shutoff. The oil level just reached the high mark of dipstick perfectly. The engine now runs very smoothly with zippiness.

 

[XS650]

The Frantz filter resistance wasn't making you engine feel less zippy. Even if the filter had been 100% plugged (hardley likely), the effect on your engine would have ben exactly the same as not having intalled the filter in the first place.

It's convenient that you misinterpreted the sypmtoms and decided you filter might be causing the lack of zippiness, you got to see what was in the filter and we heard about it too.

What are you driving that you get 46 mpg and can add 5 quarts of oil and have the oil level just hit the full mark?

 

[RJCorazza]

I am not an expert, and I realize that some people are particularly "in tune" with their car's operation. I suspect (strongly) that the lack of pep is totally unrelated to your Frantz filter, as if it is 100% clogged the oil simply does not flow through it - the oil continues about it's merry way through the full flow filter and onto the engine. More importantly... IMHO there is a serious problem with your engine if you see metal flakes in the oil or in ANY filter (full flow or bypass.). I think visual limits are somewhere around 40 microns. If I were in your shoes I would have this vehicle towed to a shop.

 

[sifan]

The engine has only 15000 on the odo with 46 mpg. What can be wrong with the engine? I do not need a tow trunk because it still drives fine.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by sifan:
The engine has only 15000 on the odo with 46 mpg. What can be wrong with the engine? I do not need a tow trunk because it still drives fine.

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Has it ever been run low on oil?

You should get a good oil analysis (UOA) as soon as you can. Blackstone labs with analysis by Terry Dyson would be a good combination. Terry adds a lot for a few extra $$ by giving you an interpretation of Blackstones results.

You mentioned overfilling te engine in the past. A gross oil overfill of an engine can cause some serious damage. Lets hope that isn't what happened to you. Good luck.

 

[RJCorazza]

It's your auto. I am surprised that you will spend the time and effort to install an oil bypass filter and show little concern for visible metal particles in an oil filter. Perhaps it's nothing other than stuff entering the oil stream after the Frantz installation, but even so, a lot of 40+ micron particles and a few "bits" of metal could have serious consequences. The fact that it has 15000 miles and gets 46 mpg is irrelavent.

 

[sifan]

No, the car never runs low in oil.

What kinds of damages to engine are the result of overfilling with oil?

 

[rg144]

How was the return line installed? If you punched the return line (maybe pre-drilling a small hole) you might have metal from that operation. Seems to me the Frantz kit has a self tapping bolt for the oil pan.

I would say just change the oil/check the filter again soon - I'll bet that was problem. But definitely metal shavings BAD. Acouple of oil/filter changes later and you'll know.

My son has an Echo and I can't imagine a car with better quality. His first Dealer service cost him $17 for just the oil change; everything else was perfect.

 

[sifan]

The oil is returned thru the oil cap with a swivel fitting. I drilled the aluminum aftermarket oil cap and installed the swivel fitting. I am sure I cleaned up all the metal shaving.

I will replace the TP after 2000 miles, and see if any more metal stuff can be found in the TP.

 

[sifan]

My car is a 2003 Toyota Echo 2 door coupe with automatic trnasmission. It has an 1.5L VVT-i (Variable Valve Timing with intelligence) engine that requires 3.9 quarts of oil. Right now the odo reading reaches just above 15000 miles. My record gas mileage is 52 mpg.

When the Frantz oil filter was just installed with the original oil, the engine felt just fine. As mileage accumulated, the engine became less drivable to the point I had to change the oil and TP. I have owned the car since new, and done all the maintenance and modifications (like wrapping the exhaust header, and installing a engine block heater solely for improving gas mileage) myself.

In theory the Frantz bypass filter should not increase oil pressure. Well, I know when my engine is not running smoothly. Maybe each engine is designed differently.

I am not a hard driver at all. To achieve high gas mileage I tend to accelerate slowly and let go the gas pedal as the car coasts well ahead of a red light or stop sign. I still do not understand where did all these metal particles and bits come from?

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by sifan:




In theory the Frantz bypass filter should not increase oil pressure. Well, I know when my engine is not running smoothly. Maybe each engine is designed differently.

I still do not understand where did all these metal particles and bits come from?

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Your error is in assuming the Frantz increased your oil pressure. If your oil pressure increased, how much did it increase?

How did you add you add 5 quarts of oil to an Echo that was only partially drained before you added it?

If you are seeing obvious metal particles in the Frantz filter, the regular filter would have been catching them too. Were you also getting metal particles in your filters before, or were you not cutting them open and looking?

 

[sifan]

I did a COMPLETE drain of oil and add 5 quarts of fresh of oil to the engine.

As stated in the previous posting, I do all the oil changes myself since the car was new. I always look at the drained oil carefully for any sign of metal particles.

True, I did not have an oil pressure gauge to prove my claim. When I overfilled the engine with oil by accident after two unsuccessful attemps to install the Frantz filter, I experienced the kind of engine responce I never encountered before as a new car owner. That was exactly how I experienced from the engine running with a dirty TP.

 

[sifan]

When I installed the sandwitch adaptor in the first attempt, I noticed a metal flake dangling near the port. The toilet paper caught it with engine running less than 1 minute. Due to leakage as the result of my failure in properly securing the clamp, I removed the bypass filter. I re-installed it last week and drove the car for 377 miles prior doing a complete drain of oil. I found an additional metal flake in the toilet paper, and some metal particles in the oil. I wonder if any damages done to my engine?

For those who have installed the Frantz adaptor, did you see any metal flakes in the oil or TP?

 

[mjo]

I too had a few metal shavings in the first tissue. Does your car have a relatively new engine in it? If it does, then the shavings are normal and come from the break-in period. As long as you didn't run the engine w/o oil pressure you should be fine.

 

[mjo]

Hey Sifan,

One more thing. Make sure you get the tp that is snug around the tube. The stuff that works for me is the Scott 1000 individually wrapped rolls that you get at drug stores or gas stations. The inside tube should be about 1 3/8" diameter. Other stuff is about 1 1/2" or bigger and doesn't seal. When this happens you lose more oil pressure than usual. It also takes me about 18 arm-stretched pulls until the new roll is small enough to fit in the housing. Slowly screw the TP into the housing after the pull ring is on. There should be a little resistance when putting in the tp without there being large air gaps along the edges. Push on the lock ring and then give it a hard whack together with the butt of your palm. Good luck.

 

[sifan]

mjo - Thanks for the advice on the TP. I learned the importance of a snuggly fit TP when I saw the metal flake caught between the TP and canister. If the TP were loosely fit, the metal flake would have passed into engine. I was debating whether to order the replacement TP from Frantz, or to buy the Scott 1000 sheet TP and cut off its height by 1/4" with a razor blade.

 

[therion]

quote:

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Originally posted by sifan:
mjo - Thanks for the advice on the TP. I learned the importance of a snuggly fit TP when I saw the metal flake caught between the TP and canister. If the TP were loosely fit, the metal flake would have passed into engine. I was debating whether to order the replacement TP from Frantz, or to buy the Scott 1000 sheet TP and cut off its height by 1/4" with a razor blade.

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I just unroll mine till its snug, have done this for 15,000 miles.. and my oil looks clean

 

[sifan]

Maybe I should use metal shaving instead of metal flake. The metal shaving (few millimeters long) came from the sandwitch adapter.

Last night as I played with the fittings trying to figure out the best layout for installing a Frantz transmission oil filter in the engine bay, I looked into the Frantz universal adaptor and noticed a metal shaving sticking out at the base of a port. I am still looking for a way to file it away without damaging the threads.

 

[dickwells]

One thing I would do is get ahold of a magnetic drain plug so I could see how much ferrous metal is accumulating. Engines can be damaged through overfill by foaming the oil which then loses a lot of its lube ability. I doubt if you have that problem if you get 46 mpg as you probably do not wind it up often if at all.

 

[RalphPWood]

The Motor Guard is the only TP filter set up to use TP. It doesnt matter for motor oil or ATF. If a little bypasses the TP around the core it is no big deal. It is only a big deal when the filter has to get the contaminants out on the first pass such as with fuel.
My 87 Camry has 180 thousand on it and it is in virtually new condition. It has no full flow filter and it is hard to find any metal particles in the Motor Guard. Metal particles mean wear. Back in the 60s it was common to get a large amount of large particles with the first filter change and a few after that. The Frantz and Motor Guard dont generate metal particles. They remove them. The oil pump doesnt work harder pushing oil thru the Frantz, Motor Guard or any other bypass filter. The oil pump pumps as much as it can. If it cant keep up the oil pressure drops. If it is pumping more than the engine needs the relief valve in the oil pump dumps the excess oil back in the oil pan. If you keep getting metal particles it means your engine is wearing out. Send a sample of oil to a lab to get an idea what is wearing out. If you still have a warranty remove the bypass filter before going back to the dealer. Have the oil analysis report with you. It would be a waste of money for me to send a sample of oil to the lab. Oil analysis is to check the condition of the engine.
TP filters have been around since the 30s. We know all about them. At one time all oil filters were optional equipment. If you paid extra for a oil filter it was a bypass filter. Some were almost as good as TP filters. The old Fram bypass filters had a decal on them that said "the dip stick tells the story". In the 50s they converted to the less effective full flow filters and people bought into the idea. Frantz came out with an adapter to use TP in the stock housing such as the Fram, AC and others. I made my own adapter but it was messy to service. I opened a Fram element and stuffed a roll of TP in it. I had to make a stronger center tube to keep the core from collapsing. When you are a poor boy you do what you can. The TP filters were designed for the old TP with the 1 2/2" core. Instead of changing the filter to fit the newer 1 5/8" TP Motor Guard and Frantz came out with their own elements. To use the Motor Guard element with motor oil the plastic core must be removed for hot oil. I am shipping the new filters with the Motor Guard elements. They use a special filter paper similar to pleated paper but with no resins to make them stiff and they are in a roll. TP filters just as good. Motor Guard cant deal with leaving the smaller cores and elements out. They pull the filters off the assembly line. They also cant deal with leaving off the epoxy coating inside and out. Im starting to like the coating. When Motor Guard converted to industrial filtration they kept the Motor Guard name. The old Motor Guards that people are finding are the Model M-100. They need to be sleeved for the newer TP. The Model M-200 and M-400 are very rare. The Motor Guard manifolds are expensive. I will do it with brass tees and truck hose. The Motor Guard manifolds may also be too stiff for automotive use. I like for things to be able to flex for automotive use. Im going to put them on the web site.

Ralph