It was probably added to late. Or run without a TP media inside.
Ford tractor 8N oil canister converted to TP filter
- Thread starter sdowney717
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The car was almost new and extremely low mileage when it was added. I have all oil change records from the era and not one was over 2500 miles, most around 2000. It had some nasty TP media in it when I took it apart.
That Ford cannister was designed for a Fram C3P type stacked plate filter.
C3 filter used pleats looked similar to any filter, C3P used stacked plates in tin can full of holes.
But several years ago, Fram decided to change from a 2 micron design with horizontal stacked cardboard plates to vertical pleats of 30 micron. You can no longer buy the bypass element the housing is designed for. The center tube of this cannister has a tiny hole, it is made for use as a bypass, not a full flow. I go one Ebay and found a seller that had 4 of the old style left, which I bought them all. My boat uses that kind of bypass element too, and a full flow also.
If that was the only filter on it, I completely agree. An engine should always have a full flow standard oil filter. My 1962 Buick had a spin on full flow oil filter. If an engine only has a bypass filter, what good is that! Unfiltered oil is circulating to the bearings etc...
If it had a full flow filter, then you can not blame the bypass filter for all that damage.
And oil from decades past was lousy compared to today's engine oil.
A bypass filter should only be an add on type filter to slowly clean oil, never the primary filter.
On my 1970 boat engines, ran into similar issue as you. Engine only had bypass filters from OEM design. Both engines needed new main bearings. And prior owner wore one out so bad entire engine was replaced. The engines are fresh water cooled, so rust was not the issue, it was wear from unfiltered oil.
It seems that 'back in the day', the need for full flow oil filtration was not considered essential even for cars. Those boat engines were marinized by Palmer from International Harvestor 392's which DID have full flow oil filtration from IH, but Palmer removed that and went with bypass only. I think they had the mistaken idea that since engines were in a boat, that no dirt is in the boat or air to get into an engine, so why is full flow filtration needed.
My case tractor only has a bypass filter
I have put one of these new Baldwin Vortex filters on in place of the standard full flow oil filter in my cummins Ram truck.
Note the cummins fleetguard venturi filter uses those stacked plates.
Vortex Lube Filters From Baldwin - Truck News
New from Baldwin Filters is the Vortex line of lube filters, including three patent-pending dual-flow models for Cummins ISM, ISX, and Signature Series engines.
www.trucknews.com
Well sdowney717 I have read & read & looked at your pics & your write-up and pretty well understand everything up to about 95% of everything you did but still a bit unclear how you sealed the 2 inter tubes.
I have a By-Pass filter housing a lot like your 8N, but not sure what it came off of. Has no bottom drain and will have to drill and tap one. Other than that mine looks like yours. Oil comes in bottom up thru small tube and out small hole towards top where bolt that fastens top cap on screws into small tube. My spring on the bolt is just a coil spring, no hold down washer thing like yours. Also I have no rubber/ felt washer you described that the tubes fasten to at the bottom to seal.
I have found that for the outer tube a piece of chain link fence tube is about a good size to fit inside a roll of toilet paper snuggly.
As I understand you soldered a Tomato Past can to the outer tube leaving about 3/8" to dig into the TP to seal it at top end. Other end of outer tube you soldered a beveled/ground washer inside that tube that slips inside the TP and fits at bottom of the TP roll.
Then you have a smaller inner tube that is pressing down on the beveled soldered on washer thats inside the outer tube. The spring is what holds tension down on the smaller inner tube and everything.
What did you use for the smaller inner metal tube?
There is a spacer goes in first, then the SS grate/plate, then the rubber washer, then the TP with the bigger innet tube slipped inside, the the smaller inner tube, then fasten the lid on.
How close did I get things figured out? Please let me know what I'm missing and not understanding.
TIA James
ThenOP hasn’t been on since June of last year so you may not get an answer.
Yeah I know but thought I'd ask. I nearly think I can get this thing figured out & hope I can. Thought I'd ask & maybe someone might have the little answers I'm still looking for
Really? I thought the benefit of bypass filtration was removing particulates smaller than 15 microns +/-, which full flow filters can't remove.
Haven't I read that those smaller particulates cause about 80% of engine wear?
How would removing them, rather than letting them circulate in the engine until you change the oil, not be a net benefit?
That's not even mentioning the cost of a roll of TP being a small fraction of what a full flow filter costs....
You could easily have an engine there that was abused for ten or more years, then had the Frantz fitted and stopped being abused, and ran until you tore it down.
Another possibility: the Frantz was fitted, but not used or changed, and simply plugged up and become non-functional.
If it had a functioning Frantz, why would it have had 2K to 2.5K oil changes??
Install an adapter for a spin on filter.
That frantz oil filter was installed on the inner fender and it was OBVIOUS it had been there for DECADES. However, the filter element inside didn't appear that old when I took it off and there were even spare TP rolls in the trunk when I cleaned it out. The seal for the oil filter adapter fell apart in my hands when I tried to pick it out of the adapter, that's how long it had been installed. I'm sure in the later years it was somewhat neglected, but the original owner had the car for nearly 30 years and there are many oil change records in the owners manual and still on the door jamb that show frequent oil changes. This was a circa 1964 carbureted engine with a road draft tube running the crappy oils of yester year and the original owner was born in 1911 and probably cared about the well-being of the engine, that's my guess as to why it got 2,000-2,500 mile oil changes, that was the norm for someone of that generation. Out of all the old Ford FE engines I have taken apart over the years it was the cleanest one, so I don't think it was neglected that badly. Replacing the spin on filter with the frantz did not do it any favors, that's for sure. If one wants to install a bypass filter, there's better options available these days. According to the owner's manual its first oil change was 700 miles.
1 +1 = 3? There is not that problem with the Frantz filters. You bought a 48 year old car last year. I had a 64 Fairlane 500 with the 260 for years during the early 70’s. The brakes are not up to modern car standards. Don't get too close to a new car stopping fast on a freeway. I think that’s why I got rid of it. And it was a low mileage ten year old car at the time.
So the guy removed the spin-on filter and ONLY ran the Frantz filter?
If so, no wonder the bearings were badly worn. If he was only running the Frantz as a "full flow" filter, instead of a bypass filter along with a full flow spin-on filter, then the engine was probably not getting the proper oil flow to the oiling system.
Correction 58 years not 48, had 58 first, changed it to 48. Not meaning to slam the old cars, it was my experience with brakes on the 101 bayshore freeway going to work. Disk brakes sure helped later on. I don’t know what the gauge of steel was on the 64 Fords, but it wasn’t thin.
It must have been getting enough oil to keep it alive for all that time, the bearings looked like they had a lot of debris go through them, the wear otherwise appeared fairly normal for the mileage. That's the point I was trying to make. I have had 3 cars with Ford FE engines, this one being the lowest mileage and best maintained and it had the worst wear overall, with the tp oil filter. People can use what they want but theres better products out there these days.
The fairlane must have way smaller brakes than the galaxies do because the manual drum brakes on both of my 64's stop just about as well as the 4 wheel power disc brakes on my grand marquis do. If you wanna drive a rig that is scary to stop fast get yourself a 78 dodge b200 van with the undersized 11" brakes. That thing was something else, I took my drivers license test in that white knuckle butt puckering device.
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