Here in louisville at the Kentucky Truck Plant. They have two parking lots one if you drive a Ford product and the other for other makes.....Guess which one has more cars in them...by a large number the "Other" lot that is farther away from the plant...
Ford makes more gains in quality
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Originally Posted By: tom slick
I hope you're correct. I'd love to study the "Ford Method" of quality improvement instead of reading how the big three have bumbled for decades allowing foreign companies to adopt Demming's methods and whoop us with them.
If they are using the six sigma stuff, it is good. Or at least it can be good. It's about determining where in the manufacturing process quality is gained or lost, and then finding a way to measure those points, and then finding a way to correct them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma
I hope you're correct. I'd love to study the "Ford Method" of quality improvement instead of reading how the big three have bumbled for decades allowing foreign companies to adopt Demming's methods and whoop us with them.
If they are using the six sigma stuff, it is good. Or at least it can be good. It's about determining where in the manufacturing process quality is gained or lost, and then finding a way to measure those points, and then finding a way to correct them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma
Originally Posted By: exranger06
If Ford didn't have the stupid idea of naming every one of their vehicles starting with the letter "F" ...
Oh, but that was a GREAT marketing idea!
"Let's name all our vehicles with the letter F, well, except for the SUVs which all start with "E", and of course the Mustang, and the Crown Victoria, the Thunderbird, the GT, etc, etc..."
If Ford didn't have the stupid idea of naming every one of their vehicles starting with the letter "F" ...
Oh, but that was a GREAT marketing idea!
"Let's name all our vehicles with the letter F, well, except for the SUVs which all start with "E", and of course the Mustang, and the Crown Victoria, the Thunderbird, the GT, etc, etc..."
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Alan Mullalay seems like a smart guy.
He is a VERY smart guy in that he truly understands that product quality and reliability is key to winning. People will pay higher prices and pass up rebate marketing tactics to buy a product that they perceive is a better long term value and will deliver less headaches. I would still be behind the wheel of a GM vehicle if they had stuck to the philosophy that made them great in the past. Now I am afraid of them.
Alan Mullalay seems like a smart guy.
He is a VERY smart guy in that he truly understands that product quality and reliability is key to winning. People will pay higher prices and pass up rebate marketing tactics to buy a product that they perceive is a better long term value and will deliver less headaches. I would still be behind the wheel of a GM vehicle if they had stuck to the philosophy that made them great in the past. Now I am afraid of them.
Originally Posted By: 65cuda
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: 65cuda
For me I had bad luck with Fords in the past and avoided them like the plague. Finally bought a Mazda B3000 and had good luck with it. After talking to friends that have bought Fords recently I would consider a Ford again. As it is thuogh I just bought a new Mazda 3 because of the experience with the B3000 and their ratings.
You do realize your pickup is not really a Mazda at all but a Ford right? It's a Ford Ranger with Mazda emblems on it, built in Ford's St. Paul Minn. plant.
Oh I knew that it was a Ford but I even told the wife and kids that I could live with it as long as it doesn't have the blue oval on it. I do believe though that they still have a fair amount of foreign content depending on the equipment in them.
They do have some foreign parts on some models, but very little from Mazda. The Mazda M5OD manual transmission is the only major component in the Ranger that Mazda builds.
The Duratec 2.3 is based on a Mazda engine, but it is built by Ford in Dearborn.
The 4.0 V6s come from Germany and the automatic transmissions come from France, but they are built at Ford plants in those countries.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: 65cuda
For me I had bad luck with Fords in the past and avoided them like the plague. Finally bought a Mazda B3000 and had good luck with it. After talking to friends that have bought Fords recently I would consider a Ford again. As it is thuogh I just bought a new Mazda 3 because of the experience with the B3000 and their ratings.
You do realize your pickup is not really a Mazda at all but a Ford right? It's a Ford Ranger with Mazda emblems on it, built in Ford's St. Paul Minn. plant.
Oh I knew that it was a Ford but I even told the wife and kids that I could live with it as long as it doesn't have the blue oval on it. I do believe though that they still have a fair amount of foreign content depending on the equipment in them.
They do have some foreign parts on some models, but very little from Mazda. The Mazda M5OD manual transmission is the only major component in the Ranger that Mazda builds.
The Duratec 2.3 is based on a Mazda engine, but it is built by Ford in Dearborn.
The 4.0 V6s come from Germany and the automatic transmissions come from France, but they are built at Ford plants in those countries.
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
Here in louisville at the Kentucky Truck Plant. They have two parking lots one if you drive a Ford product and the other for other makes.....Guess which one has more cars in them...by a large number the "Other" lot that is farther away from the plant...
The same thing can be seen of the Nissan plant here in MS. Rather, there are a lot of non-Nissan vehicles in the employee parking lot.
Here in louisville at the Kentucky Truck Plant. They have two parking lots one if you drive a Ford product and the other for other makes.....Guess which one has more cars in them...by a large number the "Other" lot that is farther away from the plant...
The same thing can be seen of the Nissan plant here in MS. Rather, there are a lot of non-Nissan vehicles in the employee parking lot.
I agree that Ford has made great quality gains, but don't fool yourselves with this study. It was sponsored by Ford.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/04/report-finds-ford-quality-improved.html
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/04/report-finds-ford-quality-improved.html
Originally Posted By: moving2
I agree that Ford has made great quality gains, but don't fool yourselves with this study. It was sponsored by Ford.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/04/report-finds-ford-quality-improved.html
True, but I get my numbers from current internal data coming out which won't hit the media until next year or late this year at best.
I agree that Ford has made great quality gains, but don't fool yourselves with this study. It was sponsored by Ford.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/04/report-finds-ford-quality-improved.html
True, but I get my numbers from current internal data coming out which won't hit the media until next year or late this year at best.
Originally Posted By: PT1
Don't count all the chickens yet for Ford. I have some Six Sigma Blackbelt clients working on the Fusion projects and the Quality numbers coming out at the end of this model year will most likely set a new record for warranty return reductions. Ford will beat Toyota hands down across the board very soon. The people there working on vehicle quality are as serious as a heart attack about being #1 worldwide and they have the CEO's total support.
My guess: Ford will be the premier US auto company very soon and if they keep their focus the premier auto company for relaibility and initial customer satisfaction worldwide in 3-5 years. I really hope this happens.
I completely agree. I've been impressed with the direction Ford has been going and they are making quality products across the board.
Don't count all the chickens yet for Ford. I have some Six Sigma Blackbelt clients working on the Fusion projects and the Quality numbers coming out at the end of this model year will most likely set a new record for warranty return reductions. Ford will beat Toyota hands down across the board very soon. The people there working on vehicle quality are as serious as a heart attack about being #1 worldwide and they have the CEO's total support.
My guess: Ford will be the premier US auto company very soon and if they keep their focus the premier auto company for relaibility and initial customer satisfaction worldwide in 3-5 years. I really hope this happens.
I completely agree. I've been impressed with the direction Ford has been going and they are making quality products across the board.
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
But look out after 3 months...I always like these reports... Any car should be good after 3 months...lets talk a few years down the road.....
True -- but I guess Honda wasn't quite as "good" as Ford.
As fas as longevity goes, I don't see too many "vintage 1976" Accords still on the road.
But look out after 3 months...I always like these reports... Any car should be good after 3 months...lets talk a few years down the road.....
True -- but I guess Honda wasn't quite as "good" as Ford.
As fas as longevity goes, I don't see too many "vintage 1976" Accords still on the road.
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
But look out after 3 months...I always like these reports... Any car should be good after 3 months...lets talk a few years down the road.....
True -- but I guess Honda wasn't quite as "good" as Ford.
As fas as longevity goes, I don't see too many "vintage 1976" Accords still on the road.
Idiot. I wonder how many cars Honda sold in 1976? Then, I wonder how many cars Ford sold? Maybe 20 times as many? Seeing as you never see 1976 Fords on the road either, I don't see how your comment applies to anything.
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
But look out after 3 months...I always like these reports... Any car should be good after 3 months...lets talk a few years down the road.....
True -- but I guess Honda wasn't quite as "good" as Ford.
As fas as longevity goes, I don't see too many "vintage 1976" Accords still on the road.
Idiot. I wonder how many cars Honda sold in 1976? Then, I wonder how many cars Ford sold? Maybe 20 times as many? Seeing as you never see 1976 Fords on the road either, I don't see how your comment applies to anything.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: 82DMC12
Idiot.
Hey, a personal attack. Haven't seen one of those in a while.
Wait for it...
Originally Posted By: 82DMC12
Idiot.
Hey, a personal attack. Haven't seen one of those in a while.
Wait for it...
Originally Posted By: 82DMC12
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
But look out after 3 months...I always like these reports... Any car should be good after 3 months...lets talk a few years down the road.....
True -- but I guess Honda wasn't quite as "good" as Ford.
As fas as longevity goes, I don't see too many "vintage 1976" Accords still on the road.
Idiot. I wonder how many cars Honda sold in 1976? Then, I wonder how many cars Ford sold? Maybe 20 times as many? Seeing as you never see 1976 Fords on the road either, I don't see how your comment applies to anything.
Honda sold plenty of cars back then...
Quote:
In all, 18,333 Accords were sold that first year, and by 1980, the Accord achieved annual sales of 185,972.
http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=4104
I see more 1978-1980 Pintos on the road than same era Accords, and by a large margin too. Pintos were selling around 200,000 units a year in 1978 and dropped in 1979 and 1980.
I live in the southeast, so road salt isn't a concern here.
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
But look out after 3 months...I always like these reports... Any car should be good after 3 months...lets talk a few years down the road.....
True -- but I guess Honda wasn't quite as "good" as Ford.
As fas as longevity goes, I don't see too many "vintage 1976" Accords still on the road.
Idiot. I wonder how many cars Honda sold in 1976? Then, I wonder how many cars Ford sold? Maybe 20 times as many? Seeing as you never see 1976 Fords on the road either, I don't see how your comment applies to anything.
Honda sold plenty of cars back then...
Quote:
In all, 18,333 Accords were sold that first year, and by 1980, the Accord achieved annual sales of 185,972.
http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=4104
I see more 1978-1980 Pintos on the road than same era Accords, and by a large margin too. Pintos were selling around 200,000 units a year in 1978 and dropped in 1979 and 1980.
I live in the southeast, so road salt isn't a concern here.
It's not just the number of units sold, but where they were sold. So its likely there are concentrations of Honda's sold in that era. So the numbers could be the same, but some areas would be over represented by Honda's, other areas where no dealers existed in the 1970's would be under represented.
So in a rural southern area, you are more likely to see old Fords relative to old Hondas simply due to numbers of vehicles sold in your local area in the 1970's.
That's why anecdotes are not useful data, what you see, while true, may not tell the whole story.
So in a rural southern area, you are more likely to see old Fords relative to old Hondas simply due to numbers of vehicles sold in your local area in the 1970's.
That's why anecdotes are not useful data, what you see, while true, may not tell the whole story.
P.S. I think Ford is going in the right direction. The only thing that prevents me from buying a Fusion over say a Camry or Accord is the Fusion is Hecho en Mexico.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I see more 1978-1980 Pintos on the road than same era Accords, and by a large margin too. Pintos were selling around 200,000 units a year in 1978 and dropped in 1979 and 1980.
I live in the southeast, so road salt isn't a concern here.
I agree with javacontour... Japanese cars originally caught on along the Western and Eastern coasts, then gradually in populous states like Illinois and "trendy" states like Colorado.
Hondas and Toyotas were available for many years, possibly for more than a decade, before some Midwestern and Southern state got their first dealerships.
So naturally there will be few Accords from the 1970s still on the road in the South -- they weren't sold there when new.
I see more 1978-1980 Pintos on the road than same era Accords, and by a large margin too. Pintos were selling around 200,000 units a year in 1978 and dropped in 1979 and 1980.
I live in the southeast, so road salt isn't a concern here.
I agree with javacontour... Japanese cars originally caught on along the Western and Eastern coasts, then gradually in populous states like Illinois and "trendy" states like Colorado.
Hondas and Toyotas were available for many years, possibly for more than a decade, before some Midwestern and Southern state got their first dealerships.
So naturally there will be few Accords from the 1970s still on the road in the South -- they weren't sold there when new.
I think buying the redesigned Camry is pretty foolish. The Accord isn't priced competitively.
The Fusion would be right up my alley.
The Fusion would be right up my alley.
Originally Posted By: wcbcruzer
Ford makes pretty good cars. They're trucks are pretty good too with the exception of the new diesels. Not sure how much intervention they had with Jaguar though. My uncle's S-type has had more problems in 53k miles than you'd believe from a new car.
Very good based on my experience, having had Jags throughout the entire Ford ownership cycle..
My '89, the first year under Ford, was an exercise in patience, and money.
My wife's '90 Vanden Plas, strikingly better in just one year.
My '94 Xj12, very good, but too much engine in too little space, but it was a really fast saloon in its day, maybe the fastest.
My wife's '04 Xj8, flawless. Zero problems since delivery.
The Jaguar AJ-V8 was decontented, and installed in many Fords as a 3.9. Conversely, the Jaguar AJ-V6's were upgraded Ford Duratecs.
I've never had a bad Ford. I can't say that about Honda, or VW.
Ford makes pretty good cars. They're trucks are pretty good too with the exception of the new diesels. Not sure how much intervention they had with Jaguar though. My uncle's S-type has had more problems in 53k miles than you'd believe from a new car.
Very good based on my experience, having had Jags throughout the entire Ford ownership cycle..
My '89, the first year under Ford, was an exercise in patience, and money.
My wife's '90 Vanden Plas, strikingly better in just one year.
My '94 Xj12, very good, but too much engine in too little space, but it was a really fast saloon in its day, maybe the fastest.
My wife's '04 Xj8, flawless. Zero problems since delivery.
The Jaguar AJ-V8 was decontented, and installed in many Fords as a 3.9. Conversely, the Jaguar AJ-V6's were upgraded Ford Duratecs.
I've never had a bad Ford. I can't say that about Honda, or VW.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
but some areas would be over represented by Hondas, other areas where no dealers existed in the 1970's would be under represented.
I rarely see any 20-year-old Hondas here, let alone 30-year-old ones.
Then again, the DC metro area has emissions testing which would probably serve to weed out many of them.
Anyone think there weren't many Hondas being sold 20, 30 years ago in the DC area?
(I think the DC area is an IDEAL test case for this--lots of Hondas that were sold here, little road salt to rust them out, except for the emissions testing. OTOH, if it can't pass an emissions test or isn't worthwhile to fix it so it can, maybe that SHOULD be held against the vehicles in question?)
but some areas would be over represented by Hondas, other areas where no dealers existed in the 1970's would be under represented.
I rarely see any 20-year-old Hondas here, let alone 30-year-old ones.
Then again, the DC metro area has emissions testing which would probably serve to weed out many of them.
Anyone think there weren't many Hondas being sold 20, 30 years ago in the DC area?
(I think the DC area is an IDEAL test case for this--lots of Hondas that were sold here, little road salt to rust them out, except for the emissions testing. OTOH, if it can't pass an emissions test or isn't worthwhile to fix it so it can, maybe that SHOULD be held against the vehicles in question?)
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