Ford makes more gains in quality

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Originally Posted By: 82DMC12
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
But look out after 3 months...I always like these reports... Any car should be good after 3 months...lets talk a few years down the road.....


True -- but I guess Honda wasn't quite as "good" as Ford.

As fas as longevity goes, I don't see too many "vintage 1976" Accords still on the road.


Idiot. I wonder how many cars Honda sold in 1976? Then, I wonder how many cars Ford sold? Maybe 20 times as many? Seeing as you never see 1976 Fords on the road either, I don't see how your comment applies to anything.



As a ND native, I'm deeply saddened by your remarks.
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy

Its gonna take Ford a long time to get back to this level of customer dedication.


I don't think it will take as long as you imagine. Consumers are pretty savvy now and when they start seeing Fod winning JD Powers awards and Consumer Reports awards etc. you will se lots of people coming back aboard. The margin of difference between the vehicles styling and content now between Japanese & Ford is not very big. Add to that all of the free advertising Ford is getting from all this auto bail out news and you will see GM & Chrysler customers buying Fords in droves because they want an American badge in the driveway and don't want to have to worry about their warranty.
 
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Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: javacontour
P.S. I think Ford is going in the right direction. The only thing that prevents me from buying a Fusion over say a Camry or Accord is the Fusion is Hecho en Mexico.


Yeah, kind of shoots the "Buy American" thing in the foot. But the offshore Ford plants are outperforming the domestic UAW ones by a fairly large margin with regard to quality. Which doesn't surprise me much.


Mexico is part of North America, and part of NAFTA. So technically, you are still "buying American" buying something from Mexico, just not from the United States.

And yes, the QC on the cars produced in th Mexican facility has apparently been fantastic.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Honda's have always sold really well in Canada. The older ones DID rust away incredibly fast, though. But that wasn't a phenomena unique to Honda: all early import cars tended to rust fast up here.

Small cars have always been more popular in Canada, so even with the rust 'problem', people buy these cars again and again...I've known lots a families that just bought one Honda or Toyota after another.

Its gonna take Ford a long time to get back to this level of customer dedication.


In the small car segment? Maybe. But people who have been buying Ford trucks seem to continue to do so. Hence the level of sales for the F-150.

I also don't necessarily agree on the small car comment. Perhaps in the GTA and urban centres, but in places like rural New Brunswick and parts of Ontario outside the GTA, the proliferance of SUV's and pick-up trucks cannot be ignored.
 
Yeah, you're right - in small towns/rural areas trucks still rule the roost. In the cities, though, lots of Civics, Corolla's and Camry's around...
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Yeah, you're right - in small towns/rural areas trucks still rule the roost. In the cities, though, lots of Civics, Corolla's and Camry's around...


Agreed
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: PT1

Yeah, kind of shoots the "Buy American" thing in the foot. But the offshore Ford plants are outperforming the domestic UAW ones by a fairly large margin with regard to quality. Which doesn't surprise me much.


Do you have a source for this? Living just down the road from Oshawa I know a few CAW members that work in GM plants and every one of them is quite serious about their job. I don't think you can blame the workers alone for the level of quality of a product leaving a plant. The product design engineers, the plant engineers, and the parts suppliers all play a much greater role I would think then the guy on the line for what comes out of a plant and how the car works 5 years from now. Sure the guys on the line could mess things up but they can't reengineer a poor assembley process as they work. They can try their best to work around it but a bad design is not their fault. I also imagine the newer "offshore" plants has new equipment have fewer restrictions on how a line is setup which would help in assembly quality.
Ian
 
Last time I checked, California is part of N.A. as well and that's where many/most Corollas are made. Kentucky and Indiana are both in NA, and thats where most Camry's and other Toyota's are made. TX is also part of NA, and that's where the Tundra is made.

Marysville, OH is also in NA, and thats where many Honda's are made.

Flat Rock, MI is where the Mazda 6 is made, and that's in NA.

So if a car made in Mexico is an "American" car, I see no reason why a car made in CA, KY, IN, TX or OH, not to mention cars made in SC, AL, TN, etc.

Personally, I think that's more American than a car made in Mexico with a "domestic" badge on the grill.

After all, how many of the folks complaining about radios, tv's etc made in China are buying Fords made in Mexico thinking they are buying American.

What's clever is a local Ford dealer, Dave Sinclair advertising buy American, and also buy some of his foreign trades, saying ALL the money you spend on those trade ins will stay in the U.S.

I do like Dave Sinclair's spirit. He's well into his 80's and I believe is still involved in the day to day business and according to his advertising, he's adding people to his payroll in a time where many are slashing their staff.

The other funny thing is a local Toyota dealer advertising that his techs are union machinists.

I wonder how that plays in the labor ranks. I think many/most of the techs working in local dealership shops are union, apparently, even those in "foreign" car dealerships.

So wouldn't buying and maintaining a Toyota or Honda from those shops support union labor?

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: javacontour
P.S. I think Ford is going in the right direction. The only thing that prevents me from buying a Fusion over say a Camry or Accord is the Fusion is Hecho en Mexico.


Yeah, kind of shoots the "Buy American" thing in the foot. But the offshore Ford plants are outperforming the domestic UAW ones by a fairly large margin with regard to quality. Which doesn't surprise me much.


Mexico is part of North America, and part of NAFTA. So technically, you are still "buying American" buying something from Mexico, just not from the United States.

And yes, the QC on the cars produced in th Mexican facility has apparently been fantastic.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Last time I checked, California is part of N.A. as well and that's where many/most Corollas are made. Kentucky and Indiana are both in NA, and thats where most Camry's and other Toyota's are made. TX is also part of NA, and that's where the Tundra is made.

Marysville, OH is also in NA, and thats where many Honda's are made.

Flat Rock, MI is where the Mazda 6 is made, and that's in NA.

So if a car made in Mexico is an "American" car, I see no reason why a car made in CA, KY, IN, TX or OH, not to mention cars made in SC, AL, TN, etc.

Personally, I think that's more American than a car made in Mexico with a "domestic" badge on the grill.

After all, how many of the folks complaining about radios, tv's etc made in China are buying Fords made in Mexico thinking they are buying American.

What's clever is a local Ford dealer, Dave Sinclair advertising buy American, and also buy some of his foreign trades, saying ALL the money you spend on those trade ins will stay in the U.S.

I do like Dave Sinclair's spirit. He's well into his 80's and I believe is still involved in the day to day business and according to his advertising, he's adding people to his payroll in a time where many are slashing their staff.

The other funny thing is a local Toyota dealer advertising that his techs are union machinists.

I wonder how that plays in the labor ranks. I think many/most of the techs working in local dealership shops are union, apparently, even those in "foreign" car dealerships.

So wouldn't buying and maintaining a Toyota or Honda from those shops support union labor?

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: javacontour
P.S. I think Ford is going in the right direction. The only thing that prevents me from buying a Fusion over say a Camry or Accord is the Fusion is Hecho en Mexico.


Yeah, kind of shoots the "Buy American" thing in the foot. But the offshore Ford plants are outperforming the domestic UAW ones by a fairly large margin with regard to quality. Which doesn't surprise me much.


Mexico is part of North America, and part of NAFTA. So technically, you are still "buying American" buying something from Mexico, just not from the United States.

And yes, the QC on the cars produced in th Mexican facility has apparently been fantastic.


I don't believe anybody, including myself, is arguing that the Japanese auto manufacturers don't have assembly plants in North America?
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the big 3 have many plants in Mexico, however I have no problem with a small percentage of their vehicles being made in Mexico and Canada because those countries buy a lot of vehicles made by the big 3 - seems fair to me.

How many American cars do you see on the roads in Japan and Korea?
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the big 3 have many plants in Mexico, however I have no problem with a small percentage of their vehicles being made in Mexico and Canada because those countries buy a lot of vehicles made by the big 3 - seems fair to me.

How many American cars do you see on the roads in Japan and Korea?


Good point
 
No, but many call a car made in Mexico an American car, but a car made in the US a foreign car.

Many of these "foreign" cars are even designed here today.

So I'm just showing the insanity of calling a car made in Mexico a domestic car, while a car made in the US is a "foreign" car.

Not to mention that many of those "foreign" car dealerships puts union labor to work.

I think the NUMMI plant in CA is a UAW plant as well. That would make the Toyota Corolla a domestic car built by UAW labor as is the Tacoma built in that plant.

I do believe Toyota is looking at costs and that's their highest cost plant. But the irony is the best selling Toyota is made in a US plant with UAW labor.

So buy American, support the UAW, buy a Corolla, LOL.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


I don't believe anybody, including myself, is arguing that the Japanese auto manufacturers don't have assembly plants in North America?
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
No, but many call a car made in Mexico an American car, but a car made in the US a foreign car.

Many of these "foreign" cars are even designed here today.

So I'm just showing the insanity of calling a car made in Mexico a domestic car, while a car made in the US is a "foreign" car.

Not to mention that many of those "foreign" car dealerships puts union labor to work.

I think the NUMMI plant in CA is a UAW plant as well. That would make the Toyota Corolla a domestic car built by UAW labor as is the Tacoma built in that plant.

I do believe Toyota is looking at costs and that's their highest cost plant. But the irony is the best selling Toyota is made in a US plant with UAW labor.

So buy American, support the UAW, buy a Corolla, LOL.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


I don't believe anybody, including myself, is arguing that the Japanese auto manufacturers don't have assembly plants in North America?


We also call domestic cars made in Canada American, and we are the 2nd largest market for these cars in the world.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
How many American cars do you see on the roads in Japan and Korea?


Japanese makers started out sending us the same cars they sold in Japan -- Honda's first export model to the US only had a 530 cc engine, I think. Eventually Honda, Toyota, Datsun, etc., designed and built cars for the North American market.

Japan and Korea have different roads, different fuel prices, etc. Have any of the (formerly) Big Three ever designed a car for the Japanese or Korean markets?
 
I've told this story before, but I'll share it again.

I toured the Ford Explorer plant here in STL before it closed down and they were building RHD Explorers for export to Japan.

So they were built to meet the specs required by Japan.

They were pulled off the line and given extra QC checks that didn't go into the Explorers sold in the U.S. because the Japanese consumer wouldn't buy the Explorers with the number of factory installed defects we accepted here in the U.S.

Now why couldn't they have just built all the Explorers to meet that high standard?
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
And yes, the QC on the cars produced in th Mexican facility has apparently been fantastic.


What is the "domestic content" of the Fusion, does anyone know? I tried to Google it and mostly just came up with conflicting information and arguments.
 
Mexico is not considered domestic origin. Canada is. There are plenty good cars made in the USA or Canada to choose from the big 3. I wouldn't buy a car (Fusion) made in Mexico either, but that's still not an excuse for me to buy a Honda. I have a Canadian (Oshawa, ON) Impala that hasn't had one problem. Canadians buy a lot of American cars and have a similar standard of living as the USA. I would consider a Ford, but for me it has to have at least a 75% domestic content and be assembled in either the USA or Canada. There are lots of cars to choose from. The Fusion is neither.
 
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