Intersting Article on Gas Detergent Quanity

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http://m.naplesnews.com/news/2011/may/22/pressure-pump-gas-detergent-Shell-BP-Exxon-testing/

Scripps tests compare level of beneficial detergent in different companies’ gas

By Isaac Wolf of Scripps Howard News Service
Published Sunday, May 22, 2011

Buying the cheapest gasoline will keep a few extra cents in your pocket now, but it may cost you down the road.

That’s because national gasoline brands differ widely in their levels of crucial engine-cleaning detergent additives, Scripps Howard News Service has found.

The additives remove carbon deposits that can impair engine efficiency, reduce gas mileage and increase harmful emissions — sometimes enough for a car to fail emissions testing.

Complicating the issue: The federal Environmental Protection Agency’s minimum requirement for the additives is woefully low and outdated, some automakers and fuel experts contend.

Since 1995, the EPA has required retailers to sell gasoline with at least a few drops of detergent per gallon — enough to keep deposit buildup on a test car to less than 100 milligrams per intake valve over 10,000 miles of driving.

“The sensitivity of modern engines is much higher than it was 10 or 15 years ago,” said Keith Corkwell, a manager for Lubrizol Corp., an Ohio-based chemicals company.

He said the science behind the EPA rule dates to the 1980s: “We don’t make engines that look like that any more. The technologies have changed.”

Officials at the EPA’s Washington headquarters didn’t respond to numerous interview requests made since February.

To gauge the differences in detergent levels, Scripps commissioned a test of gasoline from five national brands: BP, CITGO, Exxon, Pilot (sold at travel centers in 43 states) and Shell.

One-gallon samples of both regular unleaded and premium fuel were collected in metropolitan Detroit on March 10 and analyzed by Paragon Laboratories, an independent, certified testing facility in Livonia, Mich.

Paragon tested each of the 10 samples, measuring the residue left when gas is boiled away. This “unwashed gum” serves as evidence of detergent. Theoretically, the more gum residue, the more detergent — and the better the gasoline.

The findings:

■ Among samples of regular unleaded gasoline (those with an octane rating of 87), Exxon had the highest level of additives (20.0 milligrams per 100 milliliters), closely followed by BP (17.2 mg) and Shell (16.2 mg). Trailing substantially were CITGO (6.0 mg) and Pilot (5.8 mg).

■ Among premium fuels (92 or 93 octane), Shell took the top spot (31.0 mg), followed by BP (26.4 mg) and Exxon (21.2 mg). CITGO (9.4 mg) and Pilot 92 (8.8 mg) lagged behind the other three brands — including the trio’s regular gasoline samples.

The Scripps test shows that “the major brands like Exxon, Shell and BP all had good amounts of detergent,” said Sal Rand, one of several fuels experts who reviewed the results. Rand retired from the Texaco Research Center.

Exxon premium scored just slightly above its regular gasoline, suggesting the company provides a similar amount of additives across its fuel lineup, said Bob Furey, a fuels industry consultant who used to work for General Motors Corp.

Detergent amounts in the regular Exxon, BP and Shell samples likely would help keep engines clean, Furey said.

It’s impossible to tell how lower detergent levels could affect a particular vehicle, he added. Those with more than 100,000 miles tend to need more detergent, as do newer, more sophisticated models. Some can function with little detergent; all would benefit from having more.

Detergent adds 1 to 2 cents per gallon to a gas company’s production costs, Rand and Furey said.

The residue test can’t determine conclusively whether samples meet the federal minimum detergent requirement, which is based in part on detergent quality, not just quantity, Furey said. The Scripps test didn’t measure quality.

Rand, who worked extensively with CITGO, said he expected the Venezuelan company to use more additives: “I am surprised to see their detergency levels are a little bit lower than the majors.”

CITGO ensures quality through random checks, said Alan Flagg, a marketing manager.

A vice president of Pilot’s parent company, Pilot Flying J of Knoxville, Tenn., said its gas blends meet EPA requirements: “That is the standard we use,” Alan Wright said. “We don’t put in extra.”

BP spokesman Scott Dean said his brand uses far more detergent than federal rules require.

Representatives for Exxon, part of Exxon Mobil Corp., and Shell didn’t respond to interview requests.

The Scripps test provides a single-day snapshot of relatively few samples in a single market. It replicates the approach the auto industry takes on a much broader scale, quietly conducting hundreds of spot-checks nationwide a year. But the industry doesn’t publicly share its findings.

A dirty engine, often imperceptible to drivers, has tangible effects, said Bill Studzinski, head of GM’s fuels team. It can cut gas mileage by up to 2 percent and increase emissions — sometimes enough so a car will fail emissions testing.

GM pays attention to cleaning additives because sometimes “we’ll get a rash of warranty problems related to low detergency,” Studzinski said.

Troy Green, national spokesman for the AAA auto club, said there is “very little difference, if any” among detergent quality across gasoline brands because of EPA’s minimum standard.

The EPA requires gas distributors to keep records on how much additive they use, according to agency documents posted in the Federal Register.

Detergent gets added to generic or “base” fuel at regional distribution centers. When a 9,000-gallon tanker fills up with gasoline, electronic equipment dispenses a calibrated dose — from one to five gallons, depending on the brand, said Corkwell, of Lubrizol, a leading supplier of detergent additives.

Some engineers, automakers and fuel experts say the EPA’s minimum requirement is outmoded and far below the amount newer vehicles’ fuel-efficient engines need to run cleanly.

When a gas company or chemical maker wants EPA approval for a new additive, the chemical must be tested for 10,000 miles on a 1985 BMW 318i with automatic transmission, Corkwell said.

“These cars are literally antiques. The EPA needs to think about reviewing this (regulation),’’ Corkwell said.

The EPA rule is outdated and should to be revisited, agreed Marie Valentine, an engineer for Toyota — the world’s largest automaker — at its technical center in Ann Arbor, Mich. She said in an email that auto industry fuels experts raised this concern at a March meeting with EPA representatives.

The EPA, while declining multiple interview requests, issued a statement to the contrary.

“Currently, we don’t have data that indicate that our detergent regulations aren’t sufficient to provide adequate emissions performance,” spokeswoman Catherine C. Milbourn wrote in an April 18 email.

Ironically, after the EPA set its minimum, some gas companies reduced their detergent additive levels, automakers claim.

So, in 2004, several automakers formed a consortium to set more stringent detergent requirements and certify companies that meet its standards. The Top Tier Detergent Gasoline consortium now includes BMW, GM, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi.

More than 20 U.S. fuel brands, including Exxon and Shell, have received the Top Tier designation.

Not Pilot.

When the Top Tier program started, “not all of our suppliers could make the extra additive available to us,” said Wright, of Pilot Travel Centers. “We felt that if we couldn’t offer a higher level to everyone, we just wouldn’t deviate from the required standard. In addition, we were not receiving many requests from our customers.

“That is not to say we would never consider” raising the detergent additive level, Wright added.

Top Tier is beefing up its rules. Originally, the consortium required only that gas company executives sign pledges that their fuel met its performance standards. Now, Studzinski said, it’s instituting more rigorous testing and verification standards.

__ Contact Isaac Wolf of Scripps Howard News Service at [email protected]
 
Originally Posted By: brelandt
I use Valero......makes me wonder....Good read.

Valero is probably middle of the road, it makes me wonder about gulf though.
 
So they used a test that determines the level of detergent in gas. And they didn't test how effective that detergent or level of detergent is. How is that a good test?

Brand X has more than Brand Y. Big Whoop. Brand X's may be better, more effective, or even leave less residue when evaporated or burned (which is a good thing).

I want the 10 minutes back of my life from reading that drivel.
 
[censored] gov't. Why aren't they making these companies put more detergent in the fuel we use? We obviously can't leave it up to the oil Co's. to do the right thing.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
So they used a test that determines the level of detergent in gas. And they didn't test how effective that detergent or level of detergent is. How is that a good test?


I wondered that myself.
 
The government shouldn't make them add more .. just make them publish how much they use.

Then consumers can decide at the pump.

Its just amazing they skimp on something that costs 1-2cents a gallon. but I guess with billions of gallons...

That decision probably padded some executives golden parachute package.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
[censored] gov't. Why aren't they making these companies put more detergent in the fuel we use? We obviously can't leave it up to the oil Co's. to do the right thing.


They already mandate adequate amounts for conventional engines. Mainstream direct injection engines are quite a recent development, and most manufacturers selling them simply tell you to use Top Tier fuel. No need to require everyone to pay for Top Tier spec fuel when most engines don't need it.
 
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
[censored] gov't. Why aren't they making these companies put more detergent in the fuel we use? We obviously can't leave it up to the oil Co's. to do the right thing.


Do you really think that a profit oriented entity is going to do the right thing given the typical stupidity and careless nature of most consumers when it comes to auto stuff?

Originally Posted By: Rand
The government shouldn't make them add more .. just make them publish how much they use.

Then consumers can decide at the pump.

Its just amazing they skimp on something that costs 1-2cents a gallon. but I guess with billions of gallons...

That decision probably padded some executives golden parachute package.


This.
 
I am debating running Shell 91 octane two times a year, just to get the higher detergent percentage. Just to clean out my system, instead of running fuel injector cleaner.
 
We use PEA cleaner at every oil change. In my experience it improves fuel economy enough to justify the cost.
 
Originally Posted By: Stephen_G
I am debating running Shell 91 octane two times a year, just to get the higher detergent percentage. Just to clean out my system, instead of running fuel injector cleaner.


Sounds like a good idea.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: DinoLover
We use PEA cleaner at every oil change. In my experience it improves fuel economy enough to justify the cost.


Your fuel economy drops that much between oil changes? That's hard to believe.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Stephen_G
I am debating running Shell 91 octane two times a year, just to get the higher detergent percentage. Just to clean out my system, instead of running fuel injector cleaner.


Sounds like a good idea.


Probably cheaper too, i might just dump some techron in there as well from autozone (no Chevron or Texaco around) just to make sure it is clean.
 
Quote:
Detergent gets added to generic or “base” fuel at regional distribution centers. When a 9,000-gallon tanker fills up with gasoline, electronic equipment dispenses a calibrated dose — from one to five gallons, depending on the brand, said Corkwell, of Lubrizol, a leading supplier of detergent additives.



That's a point for people who say gas all comes from the same place. True the base gas is the same but it's what each gas brand does and doesn't do in additives and quality checks to it when they pick it up at the distibution center.

Some cars have injectors that are more prone to clogging. This can require cleaning through the rail which is expensive or even injector replacement which is even more expensive.

As the sources, automakers and others, in the articles mentioned, the EPA minimum requirement isn't high enough. All I use in my personal vehicles is top tier and they run well and don't need injector cleanings. It;s false economics to use non top tier and actually it's no cheaper in price anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
So they used a test that determines the level of detergent in gas. And they didn't test how effective that detergent or level of detergent is. How is that a good test?

Brand X has more than Brand Y. Big Whoop. Brand X's may be better, more effective, or even leave less residue when evaporated or burned (which is a good thing).

I want the 10 minutes back of my life from reading that drivel.


Quote: "Detergent gets added to generic or “base” fuel at regional distribution centers. When a 9,000-gallon tanker fills up with gasoline, electronic equipment dispenses a calibrated dose — from one to five gallons, depending on the brand, said Corkwell, of Lubrizol, a leading supplier of detergent additives."

As its been explained to me by tanker drivers it usually occurs just as stated above. You get whatever generic detergent the depot dispenses. They just dispense the amount payed for.
 
There have been several threads on here about top tier fuel. If it was just the oil companies involved you might write it off to marketing hype, but GM, BMW, Honda, Toyota, VW, and Audi back top tier fuels in their vehicles.

www.toptiergas.com
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
So they used a test that determines the level of detergent in gas. And they didn't test how effective that detergent or level of detergent is. How is that a good test?

Brand X has more than Brand Y. Big Whoop. Brand X's may be better, more effective, or even leave less residue when evaporated or burned (which is a good thing).

I want the 10 minutes back of my life from reading that drivel.


The brands that had high levels of additives like Shell are Top Tier and use effective detergents like PEA. All of the gas probably uses similarly effective detergents even the ones that were at a minimum as the EPA probably requires a certain level of effectiveness. I think testing for quanity was still a valid test. The main problem was some were using the minimum. I suppose it's possible for example BP which is not Top Tier could have more detergents than the minimum but the extra is not as effective ones
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. I just stick with top tier.
 
Funny how all these tests seem to be done by people heavily associated with the auto industry and it doesn't even assess the quality of detergents.

Its like looking for what oil has the most ZDDP and then claiming that everyone else lags behind and only puts in a small amount of anti-wear additives, "so shame on them for selling bad oil."

Let alone the fact that having more additives doesn't necessarily equate to better cleaning. There are laws of diminishing returns at play here that also aren't accounted for.

But, whatever. Pay what you want. I buy "bargain bin" oil from a generic station that I saw being refueled by a Flying J truck...a company that has subtle ties to Shell in Canada now. Car hasn't exploded yet.
 
I'm surprised they didnt test Chevron and Mobil,two of the brands that hyped the heck out of detergency for 30 years now.(remember the Mobil commercial with the live image of sloshing fuel in a clear container,claiming it drives your car clean?).
 
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