JD POWER 2020 3yr Dependability ranking. The industry's improving

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When I was in the planning phase of getting Subaru, I noticed its not on the top in J D Power Surveys but Chevy was (!!) So I started digging around and came across a post on Quora by a former J D Power employee. FWIW, from his description, the surveys are designed in such a way that whoever 'pays' them get on the top (That's how Chevy was on the top, then). Essentially, his take-home message, they are a joke.
 
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Knowing JD power had 36,555 responses, and knowing that ~17.2 million vehicles were sold in 2017, JD power is basing their ratings on 0.21% of all vehicles sold. Yeah... that's not even a drop in the bucket. Consumer reports isn't any better.
 
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Originally Posted by Skippy722
Knowing JD power had 36,555 responses, and knowing that ~17.2 million vehicles were sold in 2017, JD power is basing their ratings on 0.21% of all vehicles sold. Yeah... that's not even a drop in the bucket. Consumer reports isn't any better.
CR sends questionnaires to actual owners. You really need to educate yourself instead of attacking them. Some people get triggered when their own personal bias is contrary to facts.
 
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Knowing JD power had 36,555 responses, and knowing that ~17.2 million vehicles were sold in 2017, JD power is basing their ratings on 0.21% of all vehicles sold. Yeah... that's not even a drop in the bucket. Consumer reports isn't any better.
CR sends questionnaires to actual owners. You really need to educate yourself instead of attacking them. Some people get triggered when their own personal bias is contrary to facts.
Bold of you to assume I didn't read how they collect their data. Consumer Reports has said they get, on average, 200-300 responses per vehicle. Toyota sold 448,068 Rav4's in 2019. 300 samples is a measly 0.067%. But hey... you want to draw conclusions on tiny little sample sizes, be my guest. I'll take them with a massive grain of salt. https://www.consumerreports.org/car...on/consumer-reports-car-reliability-faq/
 
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Knowing JD power had 36,555 responses, and knowing that ~17.2 million vehicles were sold in 2017, JD power is basing their ratings on 0.21% of all vehicles sold. Yeah... that's not even a drop in the bucket. Consumer reports isn't any better.
CR sends questionnaires to actual owners. You really need to educate yourself instead of attacking them. Some people get triggered when their own personal bias is contrary to facts.
On an unbiased note, CR has been caught blatantly lying about Toyotas and Chryslers in the recent past, among other lies they got caught out on. These are things they admitted to, even, so CR is right out as trustworthy.
 
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I take all these surveys with plenty of 🧂. Don't depend on them for such a major purchase.
 
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Originally Posted by geeman789
Basically, the best brands have about 1 problem per car, and the worst brands have about 2 problems per car. Not much to see here, folks ... If the best brands had like 0.1 problems per car, and the worst had say 20 problems per car, then I might pay attention.
I wonder if that's just not the takeaway here. Take a small number and multiple by 2 and it's still... a small number. I still wonder about reliability but it takes 10 years to figure that stuff out, and by then it's too late.
 

wdn

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97 percent of Subarus built in the last 10 years are on the road today; 96 percent of Subarus built n the last 12 years are still on the road today. I think you already know the other longest lived auto maker because you own three of them.
Originally Posted by supton
I still wonder about reliability but it takes 10 years to figure that stuff out, and by then it's too late.
 
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Originally Posted by wdn
97 percent of Subarus built in the last 10 years are on the road today; 96 percent of Subarus built n the last 12 years are still on the road today. I think you already know the other longest lived auto maker because you own three of them.
Originally Posted by supton
I still wonder about reliability but it takes 10 years to figure that stuff out, and by then it's too late.
Problem is, that validates what they were doing 10+ years ago. Doesn't validate what they are doing now.
 

wdn

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You make a good point. It is interesting because this year Subaru dropped from its typical #2 spot in Consumer Reports to #7, solely due to the new Ascent SUV. They are plagued with first model year issues. The other model have not suffered. #7 is still quite good, but for a small maker with a limited number of models, adding one just new model and flubbing it the first year can have a profound impact. I don't buy a new model in its first year and avoid the first year of major redesigns. That could have been what whacked Subaru in the JD Power this year also.
 
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Thus far two years and 55k later a 2018 VW Tiguan has had one issue somewhat nature(extremely high pollen when car new) but latter a TSB was sunroof drains clogging. This is 3 year JD Power so see how it is in another year.
 
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Originally Posted by Spktyr
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Knowing JD power had 36,555 responses, and knowing that ~17.2 million vehicles were sold in 2017, JD power is basing their ratings on 0.21% of all vehicles sold. Yeah... that's not even a drop in the bucket. Consumer reports isn't any better.
CR sends questionnaires to actual owners. You really need to educate yourself instead of attacking them. Some people get triggered when their own personal bias is contrary to facts.
On an unbiased note, CR has been caught blatantly lying about Toyotas and Chryslers in the recent past, among other lies they got caught out on. These are things they admitted to, even, so CR is right out as trustworthy.
Do you have reference to the actual story/facts or just heard this? I believe they could have bias but so can someone posting about someone having bias too with out an my facts to collaborate their side.
 
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I will never forget their labeling the new (then) Chrysler 300 as unreliable before it was even released! Can one of their fanboys explain who they mailed their questionnaire to? They are worthy of training puppies. Not much more IMO.
 

wdn

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Are you really seeking the answer to that or just trying to bash other members? It would be possible for anybody to find out how CR predicts new cars that are not on the market yet. Consumer Reports straight up says their predictions of new models of cars are based on prior year's surveys for other cars of that brand -- the surveys that they receive from their own subscribers that own that make and model of car. Seems pretty reasonable to me, if you had to make a prediction.
 
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Originally Posted by Skippy722
Knowing JD power had 36,555 responses, and knowing that ~17.2 million vehicles were sold in 2017, JD power is basing their ratings on 0.21% of all vehicles sold. Yeah... that's not even a drop in the bucket. Consumer reports isn't any better.
36K+ is a very good representative sample population. Very good.
 
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Originally Posted by Spktyr
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Knowing JD power had 36,555 responses, and knowing that ~17.2 million vehicles were sold in 2017, JD power is basing their ratings on 0.21% of all vehicles sold. Yeah... that's not even a drop in the bucket. Consumer reports isn't any better.
CR sends questionnaires to actual owners. You really need to educate yourself instead of attacking them. Some people get triggered when their own personal bias is contrary to facts.
On an unbiased note, CR has been caught blatantly lying about Toyotas and Chryslers in the recent past, among other lies they got caught out on. These are things they admitted to, even, so CR is right out as trustworthy.
Let's see some links to prove your statement.
 
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Knowing JD power had 36,555 responses, and knowing that ~17.2 million vehicles were sold in 2017, JD power is basing their ratings on 0.21% of all vehicles sold. Yeah... that's not even a drop in the bucket. Consumer reports isn't any better.
36K+ is a very good representative sample population. Very good.
I bet there's not a single poster on here that's included in the 36K nor does anybody on here that knows of a person included in that 36K I don't put a lot of faith in polls
 
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Originally Posted by madRiver
Do you have reference to the actual story/facts or just heard this? I believe they could have bias but so can someone posting about someone having bias too with out an my facts to collaborate their side.
It started with the Samurai 'OMG it instarollsover' farce: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Motor_Corp._v._Consumers_Union_of_the_U.S.,_Inc.
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The unacceptable tipover behavior occurred after the standard course was modified to induce the tipover behavior, which did not occur while experienced drivers utilized the standard course.
https://www.aim.org/aim-report/aim-report-a-black-eye-for-consumer-reports/
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Drawing on the testimony of a former CU employee and video-tapes made by CU of its tests of the Samurai, Suzuki showed how a "hit piece" was developed by CU editorial director Irwin Landau, who was both author and editor of the 1988 article. It charged that he set out to show that the Samurai was prone to roll over easily, endangering the lives of the occupants. CU videotapes and other evidence obtained in discovery show-ed that when the car was put through the standard "emergency avoidance" test course, it passed with no problems. This is supposed to replicate an emergency that any driver might en-counter. It involves the driver suddenly turning into the opposing lane to avoid an obstacle and quickly turning back into the original lane. The Samurai was run through the course, which had been used for 15 years, 37 times. It did not roll over once even though it was driven at a higher speed than other cars that were tested. Kevin Sheehan, a CU test driver, said the vehicle "never felt like it would tip over." Another driver, Rick Small, gave the Samurai CU's highest stability rating, saying it "corrects quickly" and "responds well." Suzuki charges that at this point Landau threatened his testing staff, saying, "If you can't find someone to roll this car, I will!" David Pittle, CU's technical director, tried nine times to roll the car over without success. He finally succeeded in getting it to tip up by turning the car so sharply that it went off the test course. A video shows onlookers cheering and yelling, "Yeah!" One said , "I think I got that, I think I got that." CU then decided to construct a new course that would make it easier to replicate Pittle's successful maneuver. It was still difficult to make the vehicle tip, and CU employee Joe Nappi cried out, "All right, Ricky baby," when test driver Rick Small finally succeeded in getting two wheels off the ground. It was after all this special effort that CU announced at a news conference that the Samurai "rolls over easily" during routine driving and was given the rating of "Not Acceptable" on the road. CU showed videotape of one of the few successful tip-up maneuvers. Suzuki charges that this was taped during another trip to the track, where the driver once again had difficulty getting two of the vehicle's wheels off the ground. One tape shows Pittle complaining, "Can't you just see it, we get no lift off the ground. Oh God." After repeated attempts, however, the maneuver succeeded and the "picture-perfect" tip-up was obtained. Photos of this rare event were used repeatedly over the years to boost subscriptions and generate contributions to CU by showing how they exposed a safety hazard. From 1988 to 1996, Suzuki says, "CU sent out millions of fund-raising and subscription solicitation letters featuring the Samurai story."
All of this was recorded on video tape submitted into evidence; CU agreed that this was what had happened. Suzuki only sued because CU/CR featured it in a 1996 anniversary issue a decade later and they were tired of the falsehood being paraded. When it looked like Suzuki was going to get somewhere with the above evidence, CU hastily settled out of court and promised to never use it to promote or enrich themselves again. You don't do that if you *actually* stand behind your test. Then, more recently, we have the "oops, we lied about Toyota because we like them" debacle. Most of the articles about this have gone down the memory hole and archive.org is running too slowly to search for them - but this is still around: https://money.cnn.com/2007/10/16/autos/cr_reliability/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote
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NEW YORK, CNNMoney.com -- The Toyota brand has lost its top position for iron-clad reliability, according to an influential Consumer Reports survey released Tuesday. The survey dropped Toyota from first to fifth place - behind Honda, Acura, Scion and Subaru - in average vehicle reliability. The rankings are based on average predicted reliability for all models sold under a given brand. 07toyota_camry_hybrid.03.jpg 2007 Toyota Camry: Because of poor predicted reliability, V6-powered versions of the Toyota Camry are no longer recommended by Consumer Reports. Brands made by Toyota Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. still dominate the rankings: Scion is Toyota's low-priced car brand and Acura is Honda's luxury car brand. Consumer Reports said it no longer recommends V6 versions of Toyota's Camry or four-wheel-drive V8 versions of its Tundra pick-up because of poor reliability. In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners. But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers.
There were other articles at the time that noted that CR only said this because someone noticed that a new model with no predecessors was getting top marks in reliability and the CR Recommended rating despite it not having been out long enough to actually have been on a survey, and called them on it. There was also an article in CR at the time where they reviewed (IIRC) a Prius, said they hated it, yet recommended it anyway. Someone else noted the Chrysler debacle too, basically the same thing as the Toyota one. I don't have time to look it up right now, but info on that is out there too. It should be mentioned that one of the board members of CU is the idiot that, while she was in government (specifically NHTSA) under Carter, drove the development of a 'safety motorcycle,' pictured below. [Linked Image from 3.bp.blogspot.com] That is a rear-steer, front drive motorcycle. As any motorcycle rider could tell you without wasting beaucoup taxpayer dollars, it's basically going to be unrideable at speed. It turned out that these people were correct. http://www.profbobsfunwithhistoricalstuff.com/2016/07/joan-claybrook-and-safe-motorycle.html Anyone who thinks that an organization with a track record of decades of dishonesty led by someone as stupid as Joan Claybrook is a good source for reliability information needs their head examined.
 
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