Ford cuts prices of F-150 Lightening by 7-16%.
- Thread starter demarpaint
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I wouldn't either. Kicking ex-CEO Toyoda upstairs for new CEO Sato was a big step to right the ship.
Ford's new CEO Farley has a lot of work to do. I wish him and his company well. Too much at stake.
4WD
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Everyone seems to have a day in mind they “collapsed” - but, talking to the BiL last night - his 2015 F150 eB has been perfect so far …
Not me, my friend. You said that, not me.
You won't find anyone who wants to buy locally more than I. Never would I chant, "Toyota uber alles".
Maybe I grew up seeing Ford (and other local brands') commercials too much and that sensitized/irritated me.
Did it ever dawn on you that the big 3-4 were in a position to communicate product plans and never did? It was always next year's cheap excitement. Tell me about your AMC Pacer, Pinto, Vega.....all the while other companies improved things.
A car magazine said in a Super Beetle review, "Everything works positively in these cars". The corresponding mushiness of US cars was unignorable.
While I love the fact that GM and Ford had headlight switches etc. which fit dozens of models each, I gotta ask, what have they done for you lately?
You can't undervalue the head start certain car companies got.
Could it be that the simplest electric cars might be best suited to slower, local trips for the near future?
What do I see? Super E-cars which go 0-60 in 1 second or 7 ton boxes which don't work as imaged in commercials.
Tell me why that isn't a clown act?
The huge lie of the Lightening's range is laughable. I still want to buy US made goods but I won't reward cheap advertising with my hard earned dollars. I'll patronize whoever makes a vehicle best suited to my needs and which deals me the least bovex.
"We gotta make the Lightening look like a regular F-150 so people will except it", tells you at least some of their priorities were misplaced.
"Ford's big gamble"...why didn't they design a sure thing? They so smart, no?
Love this thread. Everyone seems to have a piece of the puzzle; we are all right, at least a little bit.
We can say both Ford and Toyota seem to be have having a rough go out of the gate in their EV endeavours.
My take is, they tried to use existing platforms and toss in an electric drivetrain with their choice of battery. They chose the easy way instead of the best way. Existing or dual use platforms are, by definition, a compromise.
A pure play EV platform will make a better EV.
Just my 2 cents...
We can say both Ford and Toyota seem to be have having a rough go out of the gate in their EV endeavours.
My take is, they tried to use existing platforms and toss in an electric drivetrain with their choice of battery. They chose the easy way instead of the best way. Existing or dual use platforms are, by definition, a compromise.
A pure play EV platform will make a better EV.
Just my 2 cents...
When did we see this not be the case time after time?
In the case of Ford, their F series platform was a winner for ICE PUs for decades. I guess to them it made sense to run with it, and save money. Win win they thought. Where they screwed up is they didn't have the battery tech, range, etc. As a result they turned out a turd, and cutting the price will move the turds faster. If they had the EV tech right I think they'd have a winner, and could have held prices where they were. I wish them well, they have an uphill battle ahead of them. JMO.
OVERKILL
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That said, the Rivian is a pure play EV platform and it's 1,000lbs heavier than the Ford, so...
No vehicle is perfect, and although a manufacturer may get some models in their line up done right, they almost always build some crappolla models to.
My elderly neighbor bought a Toyota Tacoma brand new, and has cursed it ever since. "Worst thing I ever bought " was a recent statement to me about her taco. She now wishes she had kept her ram 1500.
Heavy equipment, semi trucks, trailers, farm tractors, attachments, no maker is perfect.
If anyone finds a perfect brand, please let me know!
My elderly neighbor bought a Toyota Tacoma brand new, and has cursed it ever since. "Worst thing I ever bought " was a recent statement to me about her taco. She now wishes she had kept her ram 1500.
Heavy equipment, semi trucks, trailers, farm tractors, attachments, no maker is perfect.
If anyone finds a perfect brand, please let me know!
Agreed. The question is, what is their next move? I like Farley's transparancy. Unlike others, he talks reality, not "we will be ...", etc.
Your guess is as good as mine. I can say one thing which applies to me, and probably a lot of other people. When a company burns someone once with a POS product, there's a good chance they'll never do business with that company again. And bad news spreads a lot faster than good news. Farley might have a bigger mess than he anticipates on his hands.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Ummm, you said:
That's definitely a "Toyota can do no wrong" overtoneKira said:
As compared to what, the Tundra towing the space shuttle?
So your criticism of Ford in 2023 is based on the fact their econobox in the 70's wasn't as good as what was coming from the Japanese marques?
This is word salad.
Tesla was losing money for ages, EV's weren't seen as a serious market, or threat, by EVERY major car company, including the one you just lauded for their "paced and progressive" approach, whose first serious foray into the EV space has been less than spectacular.
That's not what the growth in the EV spaced was based on though now was it? Uncle Elon started with a luxury car and SUV (S and X) to build the brand, then came out with what's essentially a BMW 3-series equivalent (Model 3) that was more down-market. None of these cars are slow or cheap. The M3 might match the "simple" approach, given everything is done from the screen, but the electronics running it all aren't.
It's the same reason Ford stopped selling cars and why nobody makes stripper vehicles anymore. A certain segment is always lamenting the loss of the super cheap Festiva with the 3-popper and manual everything, but the reason they don't exist is because people don't buy them in volume. While a glorified EV golf cart for around town might sound reasonable in theory, the demographic that's going to appeal to are currently driving E-bikes and often afflicted with serious addiction to either drugs or alcohol and could never afford to actually buy one.
Manufacturers produce what the market wants. The Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer is selling well. It's literally the antithesis to everything you are endorsing here. The Tesla Model S would not have been successful if it had the acceleration of a Nissan Versa.
The Lightning is comparable, weight-wise, to other half-tons, as I demonstrated. It weighs less than the Tundra Hybrid, why no outrage over the Tundra being a 4 billion ton box, or whatever level of palpable hyperbole we wish to use to dress-up the point?
If you've followed ANY of the EV testing, you'd realize that a substantial majority of EV's don't get anywhere near their claimed range. In fact, the Lightning is far from being the biggest offender on the list.
| Vehicle | Price | Real Range (Miles) | EPA Range (Miles) | Difference | Efficiency (mi/kWh) |
| 2022 Lucid Air Dream Edition Range | $169,000 | 500 | 520 | -4.0% | 4.30 |
| 2022 Mercedes EQS 450+ | $102,310 | 395 | 350 | +13.0% | 3.67 |
| 2022 BMW iX xDrive50 w/20" Wheels | $83,200 | 345 | 324 | +6.5% | 3.25 |
| 2023 Cadillac Lyriq RWD w/20" Wheels | $62,990 | 330 | 312 | +5.8% | 3.15 |
| 2021 Tesla Model 3 AWD | $48,990 | 310 | 353 | -12.2% | 4.25 |
| 2023 Porsche Taycan RWD 93 kWh Battery (New Software) | $81,150* | 305 | 225 | +35.8% | 3.66 |
| 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid w/21" Arachnid | $134,490 | 300 | 348 | -12.0% | 3.30 |
| 2021 Porsche Taycan RWD 93 kWh Battery | $85,470* | 293 297 | 225 225 | +30.0% +32.0% | 3.49 3.50 |
| 2019 Tesla Model 3 AWD | $47,990 | 290 | 322 | -10.0% | 4.25 |
| 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E California Route 1 Edition | $50,400 | 287 | 305 | -6.0% | 3.30 |
| 2023 Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium AWD Extended Range | $66,295 | 285 | 290 | -1.7% | 3.10 |
| 2020 Porsche Taycan 4S 93 kWh | $103,800* | 278 | 203 | +36.9% | 3.32 |
| 2020 Tesla Model Y AWD | $49,990 | 276 | 316 | -12.7% | 3.85 |
| 2022 Ford Lightning Lariat Extended Range | $77,474 | 270 | 320 | -15.6% | 2.10 |
| 2022 Rivian R1T Large Pack, 20" all-terrain tires | $79,500 | 254 | 314** | -19.1% | 2.03 |
| 2021 Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo 93 kWh Battery | $93,700 | 252 | 215 | +17.2% | 3.10 |
| 2021 Porsche Taycan Turbo Cross Turismo 93 kWh Battery | $153,500 | 246 | 204 | +20.6% | 2.92 |
| 2022 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD 20" Wheels | $56,400 | 245 | 274 | -10.6 | 3.30 |
| 2022 BMW i4 M50 w/20" Wheels | $65,900 | 239 | 227 | +5.3% | 2.95 |
| 2020 Hyundai Kona EV | $37,190 | 238 | 258 | -7.8% | 3.90 |
| 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 First Edition | $43,995 | 234 | 250 | -6.4% | 3.00 |
| 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 AWD SEL w/19" Wheels | $45,900 | 227 | 256 | -11.3% | 3.10 |
| 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E AWD Std Range | $50,300 | 226 | 211 | +7.1% | 3.30 |
| 2020 Chevrolet Bolt EV | $36,620 | 226 | 259 | -12.7% | 3.40 |
| 2021 Polestar Polestar 2 | $59,990 | 226 | 233 | -3.1% | 3.12 |
| 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 AWD Limited w/20" Wheels | $54,500 | 195 | 256 | -24.0% | 2.70 |
| 2022 Jaguar I-Pace EV400 w/22" Wheels | $69,900 | 195 | 234 | -16.7% | 2.37 |
| 2020 Nissan LEAF SL + | $43,900 | 190 | 215 | -11.6% | 3.40 |
| 2022 Ford Lightning Pro Standard Range | $39,974 | 214 | 230 | -7.0% | 2.20 |
| 2019 Audi e-tron | $74,800 | 188 | 204 | -7.9% | 2.30 |
| 2020 Hyundai Ioniq EV | $33,045 | 171 | 170 | +0.6% | 4.50 |
| 2019 BMW i3s BEV | $47,650 | 141 | 153 | -7.8% | 3.60 |
| 2020 BMW i3s REx | $51,500 | 126 | 126 | 0.0% | 3.50 |
| 2020 MINI Cooper SE | $29,990 | 108 | 110 | -1.8% | 3.70 |
| 2015 Chevy Spark EV | $25,995 | 63 | 82 | -23.2% | 3.50 |
| 2018 smart Electric Drive | $28,750 | 51 | 57 | -10.5% | 3.40 |
But if the foundation of your reasoning is a bog of lies (the Lightning is heavier than an aircraft carrier, the lightning range is 4 billion times lower than claimed, let's just roll with that delicious hyperbole), that tends to ring hollow. How can I take seriously a claim made by somebody so eager to misrepresent a product? Which really seems to be based on a deeply personal resentment of the manufacturer's unwillingness to produce the product you think people SHOULD be driving.
Build a truck that looks like a truck because Average Joe is more likely to accept a product that looks like what he's used to? I think that's a pretty reasonable thought process on display there. I like the BMW i4 because it looks like a 4-series, I liked the e-tron because it looked like a normal Audi...etc.
And what do you propose a "sure thing" to be? If you've got all the answers, why aren't you the one in charge at Ford?
Actually his analogy of flat earthers in this case, was a good one. Both they, and many who believe EV's are "green", will never be persuaded to think otherwise. This regardless of how many facts you show them.
They simply WANT to believe that EV's are "green".... Just as flat earthers WANT to believe the earth is flat. Even though there is plenty of reputable proof both are not.
Many people get tired of hearing that over and over. As well as constantly putting up with it. Enough already. His B.S. meter got pegged. And I don't blame him.
And I'm noticing a hell of a lot of asterisks in your posts, but none in mine of his. That alone should tell you something.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
the fish & ski boat analogy - a pro in either sport won’t buy one
I love how Porsche under promised, and over delivered.
Great job Porsche!
Keep up the awesome work!
Great job Porsche!
Keep up the awesome work!
I haven't followed the truck segment too closely. A body on frame design like mosy pickups allows for more flexibility like fitting a heavy battery, but a ground up design, unless it's botched, should be better.That said, the Rivian is a pure play EV platform and it's 1,000lbs heavier than the Ford, so...
The Ford has a big advantage; it is known as the work truck since forever. Truck buyers want trucks that look like trucks. The Rivian is different looking by design. I kinda consider it more of a life style vehicle, but that's just me.
Who is selling more? Price comparison? MSRP vs Real Price?
I believe the Rivian has better range and can out tow the Lightning.
My question is, which is the better EV? I don't know but my guess is the Rivian.
Time will tell. Interesting times ahead.
Hold on...wait a minute here.
You're telling me that the earth isn't flat.
Mind blown...what if I fall off the edge...are there guard rails?!
They come in all shapes and sizes. And no, I'm not saying he drove an EV.
He got a good look at the Earth.... From the inside!
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
The Rivian is closer in size to a Ranger, despite being significantly heavier than The F-150. It has more power. A decent C&D review here:
https://www.caranddriver.com/rivian/r1t
It starts at ~$70K, vs ~$50K for the F-150.
I would agree with your assessment that the Rivian is sold more as a "lifestyle" vehicle when compared to the Ford.
I think this video was posted before, but it's kind of funny:
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