Ford cuts prices of F-150 Lightening by 7-16%.
- Thread starter demarpaint
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I'll add one thing that ICE gets you that EV's don't on long trips. I might stop for gas the same amount of times an EV stops (I don't, but lets say I did). So I stop for 5 minutes at any gas station, and then stop wherever I find an intriguing spot along the way for possibly a longer spout. The difference is I can take my 20-30 minute stops, if I choose, anywhere. I'm not tied to that time frame, at the charging station. It's the loss of that freedom that most object too (without maybe even being able to articulate why).
Same deal at home. I park in probably 10 different spots over the course of the year. Either need charging outlets all over (I'm on almost 5 acres with 200 feet paved and another 200 feet stones for driveways, and parking areas off the sides here and there), or would have to drag a cord upwards of 75 feet in some instances. I've lugged around long welding cord extensions, would be a real PIA to do it all the time.
That does not even begin to discuss cords under the snow when I have to plow. I plow all my neighbors driveways too (many of them also 100-200 feet). Most of them have a bunch of vehicles outside up near the house or on the sides of the driveway. The first time I see an EV in their driveway, I'm done with that. Can't imagine it would be too much fun to plow over one of those cords.
And do we plug in EVERY time you come home. No?, so you never forget? I forget to plug in my cell phone often enough, why would my car be any different. If yes, you never go back out on even a 5 mile unplanned trip. Grab groceries, hit Home Depot or grab a beer later on at night, you did not plan to do. So now you had to plug and unplug at least twice. There is now way that lugging around cords and having to plug/unplug multiple times a day (yes, I would have too, as I guarantee many times I would forget) takes any less time than stopping for gas, where I would already be to grab a coffee (again, this is me and my life).
I looked into a lightning for towing. Even long range with tow package, I'd need several used Model S battery packs somehow strapped to my trailer to do the trip I now do in one day. Even then I'd have to charge once, maybe twice. It's already 6, sometimes 7 hours round trip of travel, with a full day of offroad in-between. No EV could do it.
Same deal at home. I park in probably 10 different spots over the course of the year. Either need charging outlets all over (I'm on almost 5 acres with 200 feet paved and another 200 feet stones for driveways, and parking areas off the sides here and there), or would have to drag a cord upwards of 75 feet in some instances. I've lugged around long welding cord extensions, would be a real PIA to do it all the time.
That does not even begin to discuss cords under the snow when I have to plow. I plow all my neighbors driveways too (many of them also 100-200 feet). Most of them have a bunch of vehicles outside up near the house or on the sides of the driveway. The first time I see an EV in their driveway, I'm done with that. Can't imagine it would be too much fun to plow over one of those cords.
And do we plug in EVERY time you come home. No?, so you never forget? I forget to plug in my cell phone often enough, why would my car be any different. If yes, you never go back out on even a 5 mile unplanned trip. Grab groceries, hit Home Depot or grab a beer later on at night, you did not plan to do. So now you had to plug and unplug at least twice. There is now way that lugging around cords and having to plug/unplug multiple times a day (yes, I would have too, as I guarantee many times I would forget) takes any less time than stopping for gas, where I would already be to grab a coffee (again, this is me and my life).
I looked into a lightning for towing. Even long range with tow package, I'd need several used Model S battery packs somehow strapped to my trailer to do the trip I now do in one day. Even then I'd have to charge once, maybe twice. It's already 6, sometimes 7 hours round trip of travel, with a full day of offroad in-between. No EV could do it.
No I don't plug in every time. I can't say I wouldn't ever forget, but I haven't yet. I don't have a huge piece of property and every car has its garage spot, so the charger is always where it needs to be. I wouldn't want to have to charge in the driveway. Being out in the open in the winter would definitely charge slower in extreme cold.
It's definitely a preference and a usage case situation. Local use and the EV has very distinct advantages. As the distances lengthen it can shift based on need. Have to tow long distances? Wouldn't even bother with an EV. If I was just taking a boat to the water 20 miles away I'd have no problem using the Lightning, but considering that would likely be a once or twice a month thing I wouldn't want to drive a truck the rest of the time.
2018 Mid Range, 90% full charge is 220 miles.
I started from our home in Los Gatos with about 160 miles remaining, flew up interstate 280 to SF, across the GG Bridge through Marin up to our other home in Petaluma. 90 miles.
Went to a nice Target shopping center and charged for maybe 15 minutes, $9. Got like 100+ miles and drove home. I think it was like 180 miles remaining afted charging.
This is my recollection, but the numbers are close. Remember the car charges faster when the battery is low. Repeated Supercharger use is hard on the battery, as I'm sure oyu know.
I can also charge to 95% and make the round trip easily with 30+ miles to spare. Now a Model Y Long Range would be a piece of cake.
It's kinda funny because the last leg of the trip home, from the Stanford area to our home is somewhat downhill so you don't consume much energy; sometimes you gain.
Next time I will just start with my 90% State of Charge (SOC). If I have to stop it won't be for long. And we have tons of chargers...
After you get the hang of EV use, you start to lose your range anxiety and just enjoy your silent rocket.
On the Supercharger on a beautiful Petaluma morning. Just over the hills is the mighty Pacific. Ours is the white car on the end charger.
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On my trips through the Siskyous we would always fuel up before going over the complex weather which was Redding or Ashland. Just north of Yreka is a rest area that is just perfect. A small stream flowing through. Lots of tables to sit and eat at. We made it a habit to stop there on each trip. It was much more pleasant than any other alternative. On other trips we stopped at viewpoints or state parks and other beautiful spots. That’s relaxing on a long trip.
Maybe @JeffKeryk knows that rest stop?
I don't get up North too much; too dang busy! But friends rave about the Yreka area. @PimTac makes an interesting point because CA is a large land mass with so many different areas, people, etc.
An ex co-worker and her husband are retiring to Yreka. They got a place; here's the view out their front door.
Just today I was on the Cabrillo Highway just north of Santa Cruz. So peaceful; oyu would never expect the uber hurried, frenzied Silicon Valley is right around the corner, so to speak. A few miles and you are in different worlds...
Ford losing money on the Lightning and Mach-E at this point is to be expected. GM was losing big money on their Bolt. They were losing like $49K on every Volt, a car liked but sold poorly.
Ford broke out their Model e group from their Ford Blue group. The e group is basically a start up. I give Ford credit for breaking out their EV business and honestly reporting financials. Nobody else does that; got something to hide, big boys?
Look, Tesla was burning money and was nearly out of business in 2018. Only a Hail Mary pass saved the company. Today Tesla is by far the most valuable car company in the world.
Going forward, Ford may be able to sell their EVs direct instead of the horrible dealership model. That alone will add substantial money to the bottom line.
Supply chain breakdown from the pandemic killed everyone; that's improved grately and continues to heal.
Did they get the Lightning right? I have no idea. The Mach-E was selling strong but seems to have stalled.
In another year they will have access to limited or all Tesla Superchargers so that is a big plus for everyone.
Time will tell. I would not count Big Blue out.
Ford broke out their Model e group from their Ford Blue group. The e group is basically a start up. I give Ford credit for breaking out their EV business and honestly reporting financials. Nobody else does that; got something to hide, big boys?
Look, Tesla was burning money and was nearly out of business in 2018. Only a Hail Mary pass saved the company. Today Tesla is by far the most valuable car company in the world.
Going forward, Ford may be able to sell their EVs direct instead of the horrible dealership model. That alone will add substantial money to the bottom line.
Supply chain breakdown from the pandemic killed everyone; that's improved grately and continues to heal.
Did they get the Lightning right? I have no idea. The Mach-E was selling strong but seems to have stalled.
In another year they will have access to limited or all Tesla Superchargers so that is a big plus for everyone.
Time will tell. I would not count Big Blue out.
JHZR2
Staff member
Perhaps if all you ever do is plug it in at home. The second Im away and need to top up charge, it’s a total waste of time to have an eV.
The benefit of the lightning would be, Wh/mike aside, the utility of a crew cab pickup with reasonabke range. Quickness isn’t a factor for me. I’d rather they get more efficiency and range out of the 150 personally, and also then perfect a PHEV 250/HD where full torque zero rpm can be more handy. Until then I’ll stick with my classic Dodge Ram Cummins trucks which will be around indefinitely given their longevity.
Why is that? Perhaps if you are talking thousands of miles, but if you are talking about a 300 mile round trip you are only on a charger for 15 minutes or less, depending. That's nothing as compared to charging at home most of the time vs regularly going to a gas station. It's really weird; I dread gas stations now. I've changed...
Now a F-150 Lightning with something in the bed is another story...
The chances of me buying an electric pickup are negative infinity and them some. But I have seen a few running around. No tail pipe and the little Lightning Bolt... Kinda fun to see but not for me.
They ( the worlds car manufacturers) were told there is a NEW totalitarian sheriff in the world ( that we own) cough…Blackrock/one world order totalitarians. and every breathing moment world wide, “the collective“ will be forcing “ our new world order”. So it will so so much easier if “follow“ us then fight us. Within 2 years it seemed all the worlds car manufacturers were dumping all ICE research as if thy were being forced 100% EV adoption in 10 years, while getting both arms twisted by someone/some entity that was/is God like.
Then we hear from the Governor of California that we can’t charge our EV s, as we have no power because of a brownout of the grid. What………. 3% EV adoption at the time, and some laws or dictate edicts to ban gas heating of homes/ businesses and also no gas heating of water, only electric .Then we see waves of blackouts from lack of electricity. More proof we have either very very evil people or complete idiots/fools wanting this mass forcing of unsustainable electric use. I see both, and most, if not all come from a certain group. The same group who says they own science, and never followed science, when we needed them most. Wheedling power over humans is a very hideous drug.
Well, like most things, EV's are either good for the masses, or else they're not. I think at this point we can agree they're not. And I think that's what infuriates most people.
Again, it's not that everyone "hates" EV's. It's just that when something is not going to make any improvements in your life, just complicate it all the more, and others are trying to convince you that it will, it's perfectly normal for that person to resist that. That's not "hatred"... It's common sense.
Our government, along with countless "green people" think that EV's are "what's best" for everyone. Along with electric everything else. From stoves to lawn mowers. And it's quite apparent that everytime the government, along with these others, starts trying to legislate technology that isn't there yet, this is what happens.
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My doctor unloaded his, to sum it up, he tried it and didn't like it. Fit and finish left a lot to the imagination and he found traveling to his condo in South Florida was more of a hassle than it was worth for him. He said when it came time for tires, which BTW didn't last nearly as long as he was used to, he was a bit shocked at the cost. I guess he didn't do his homework before buying. He took his loss and moved on. As stated a number of times here, they're clearly not for everyone.
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the truth hurts
Here's a typical conversation on a road trip my brother and I made to Florida, a similar conversation occurs with my wife and friends on road trips. We're driving and see a gas station," do you need gas?" "No." "OK." And we continue. Many times we'll see a sign, next gas station 30 miles. As we get closer I'll often see another sign, next gas station 25 miles, or something like that. At that point I'll say we're stopping for gas at the next stop. The reply is "OK." People do what they have to do, I get gas. I fill up, pull away from the pump, park, use the restroom, when I get back my wife and friends are in the vehicle and we on our way. Total stop time usually 5-15 minutes, if we decided to eat we stay a bit longer. If I want to get high tech I'll use the gas buddy app. That's the extent of the thought and planning that goes into fueling. I've made many long road trips over the years doing that w/o issue. If I'm in an area I'm unfamiliar with and driving through the night I'll top up in minutes when I get under 1/2 a tank. That's a convince I'm not ready to give up or compromise on, even if I only make a long trip once or twice a year. Opinions will vary. One thing for sure the Pro Ev'ers are not going to change the minds of the guys who don't like or want an EV, or vice versa.
Another thing people like about ICE, is that you have the ABILITY to make very long trips, and refill your tank in 5 minutes and be on your way again. Even if you do not normally do so.
With EV's you are limited. That ability is comforting to a lot of people, and they don't want to give it up, just because the government thinks they should.
Even if they don't use it all the time. Much like the guy who buys a Dodge Demon or a Z-06 Corvette. It doesn't mean they want to burn the tires off them in 3,000 miles, just because they can.
And yes, the charging network is growing. But the fact is it's going to have to grow a LOT more before it can compete on any type of level playing field with ICE. And right now we're DECADES away from that.... If it EVER happens.
With EV's you are limited. That ability is comforting to a lot of people, and they don't want to give it up, just because the government thinks they should.
Even if they don't use it all the time. Much like the guy who buys a Dodge Demon or a Z-06 Corvette. It doesn't mean they want to burn the tires off them in 3,000 miles, just because they can.
And yes, the charging network is growing. But the fact is it's going to have to grow a LOT more before it can compete on any type of level playing field with ICE. And right now we're DECADES away from that.... If it EVER happens.
Nope, those are almost banned or soon to be in California too. Then the "collective" will ban them elsewhere too.
Tesla earnings come out on Wed is a huge event.
First CyberTruck rolled off assembly line yesterday after a couple YEAR delay is the second huge event.
Traders can do whatever they want on a stock with 80 times earnings ohhh the so-called “guru” of Tesla (Cathie Woods) fund sold off more Tesla stock this week.
I’m not against Trading Tesla stock and not against those trading bitcoin for those who choose but to pull a stocks price behavior out of a hat on any given day is fruitless except for day traders
But to compare an automotive stock at now 80 times earnings and try to discredit the same industry stocks of other companies much lower P/Es might be more to liken insanity vs sanity for long term investment
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We shall see. I have them all in a mutual fund. Regarding the Cyber Truck, I'm not a fan. It looks like something slapped together in HS shop class. lol
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