Ford cuts prices of F-150 Lightening by 7-16%.
- Thread starter demarpaint
- Start date
It's all good, again, time will tell.
This whole, "Can't Build Them Fast Enough" really means nothing anymore. Certainly not enough to pass any judgement on. We've had nothing but supply chain disruptions since this administration sat down.
Some like to blame it on Covid. (Some still do). Others want to blame it on inept politics and over regulation. Some are saying demand for everything is off the charts. And on and on.
I think it's a little of all the above, with a lot of lousy management thrown in for good measure. For example, my wife has been wanting a new double oven range with all the bells and whistles ever since we moved here 4 years ago.
We went to buy one right after Covid hit, (early 2020), and there was nothing available. And they said they didn't know when, or if they could promise a delivery. All of their dealer distribution centers had nothing in stock, and didn't know when they would. (But naturally they were willing to take our money). Shortages were everywhere. So we just gave up.
Finally last week Lowe's were starting to show a 1 to 2 week delivery on several of the nicer one's. So she picked the one she wanted and they ordered it. It's now supposed to come the first week in August. We'll see.
Point being, I think all these manufacturers are lying through their teeth about all of this production interruption nonsense. Ford says they're lowering prices on their EV trucks because material costs have gone down.
Then in the same breath they claim to be selling like hotcakes..... But now we find out they're taking the gas pipe on them to the tune of $60K per truck.
Then why lower the price if they are, "selling like hotcakes"? That makes zero sense. You RAISE it under those circumstances. Everyone is guessing at all of this with what they want to believe.
Some like to blame it on Covid. (Some still do). Others want to blame it on inept politics and over regulation. Some are saying demand for everything is off the charts. And on and on.
I think it's a little of all the above, with a lot of lousy management thrown in for good measure. For example, my wife has been wanting a new double oven range with all the bells and whistles ever since we moved here 4 years ago.
We went to buy one right after Covid hit, (early 2020), and there was nothing available. And they said they didn't know when, or if they could promise a delivery. All of their dealer distribution centers had nothing in stock, and didn't know when they would. (But naturally they were willing to take our money). Shortages were everywhere. So we just gave up.
Finally last week Lowe's were starting to show a 1 to 2 week delivery on several of the nicer one's. So she picked the one she wanted and they ordered it. It's now supposed to come the first week in August. We'll see.
Point being, I think all these manufacturers are lying through their teeth about all of this production interruption nonsense. Ford says they're lowering prices on their EV trucks because material costs have gone down.
Then in the same breath they claim to be selling like hotcakes..... But now we find out they're taking the gas pipe on them to the tune of $60K per truck.
Then why lower the price if they are, "selling like hotcakes"? That makes zero sense. You RAISE it under those circumstances. Everyone is guessing at all of this with what they want to believe.
One could surmise that ICE vehicles are very much in demand and will be for decades to come, it's still a post covid hangover in logistics. Time will tell is right
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What Ford made a decade ago and what Tesla lost a decade ago are irrelevant. What Ford is making today on their ICE vehicles is still insufficient. Ford (and GM) is saddled with huge unfunded pension liabilities. This is from caving in to the UAW. Ford spends millions every year on recalls that are preventable. Ford isn't making enough profit to pour back into their EV program. Their financials are about as bad as the US Government, they are still in business but they are a house of cards ready to fail at any time. I guess they figure on a bailout, just like the deadbeat students who don't want to pay back their loans.
What matters in the third quarter of 2023 and will be critical for the next five years or so is that Tesla is incredibly profitable. None of their competitors are. How many cars are sold in the US not being revealed may seem like a joke but can be extrapolated easily enough. And anyone with a well calibrated set of eyeballs can see how many more are on the roads every day.
Tesla has the resources to keep expanding and innovating. It sure doesn't seem to matter that they weren't profitable until two years ago does it, while Ford has been profitable (?) for decades.
If you were the CFO of a car company, who would you rather be working for ? Let's start with profit:Tesla made more money in 2022 than Ford and GM. Not Ford or GM, but nearly as much as Ford and GM put together. Tesla recorded a $12.6 billion profit in 2022, compared with $9.9 billion for GM, and a $2 billion loss for Ford.
It will take incredible amounts of capital to be competitive in the EV market. Those that have it will be at or near the top. Those that don't will be also rans.
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Well isnt my point this? Why is it ok for Tesla to come out with a new type of vehicle power and lose money for over a decade on it and yet based on your negative comments, you expect the legacy makers to make a profit on the same technology the first year or two?
This is silly and I am not defending Ford, not my car company, I just dont understand the logic from you and others regarding car companies making money every year but a division loses money as they develop a product is no different than Tesla was yet the Legacy company still makes money on their other products, something Tesla sorely lacks.
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Oh, another thing about Tesla stock and why I refer to bitcoin as an example is the wild swings in price do show Tesla as a trading stock, only about 45% of investors are institutions vs GMs 85% ... so swings will be wild, much like bitcoin or that gaming stock sound 2021 with individual investors, slam dunk if you got in early, the ones later taking a bath.
Im not saying Tesla will take a bath, just the reasons I dont invest, though I do wish I did when it hit below 110 a short time ago, but would not still be holding after the run up... and BTW this is just is one stock of hundreds.
https://marketingsentinel.com/2023/...nstant-disaster-or-an-incredible-opportunity/
and here is the gaming stock ...
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Because Ford. Jim Farley has had a couple moments of trying a little too much honesty on occasion, which is something Ford has just stayed quiet that I'm aware of. It's like they need an excuse, but someone different comes up with the excuse each time. Different companies have different strengths. In my experience reliability hasn't been Ford's strength. After a Lincoln and two Fords I already scratched that itch.
One of my favorite long term brands even though I have only owned one is Volkswagen. As of now I wouldn't own an EV from them. At least in the US we only have a boring crossover and they've had some early issues. I haven't heard any issues recently, but the car just doesn't appeal to me. I think they're kicking themselves by not making an enthusiast level EV, but at least they're smart and kept the GTI and Golf R for the US when they cancelled the standard Golf for the US.
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Disagree. It depends on your use case. If these vehicles were so bad, why are Teslas selling so well and have the highest customer satisfaction of any car?
Nothing is one size fits all and some the crowd that wouldn't consider an EV either doesn't see how or doesn't recognize why it works for those that like them and use them.
The "one or the other" attitude is silly and makes no sense.
I said they're not for the masses, not that they were "bad"....... As in good for everyone. We're right back to square one. EV's are not practical for everyone who needs a car or truck.
Never said they were. It depends on your use case. My guess is, and it's only my guess, is that EV will continue to win market share as the market and charging infrastructure matures.
If you are driving 50 miles or less per day and you can charge at home, an EV offers a lot of promise. That's my experience. Time will tell.
The #1 selling car in the world, up till recently, has been the Corolla. If Tesla can deliver the $25K "Model 2", watch out world.
I don't think ICE cars are for everyone either. I think it's what we've gotten used to. The concern is brought up a lot about short tripping being very bad for ICE engines and that a longer trip should be made to clean things out on a somewhat regular basis and that 1-2 mile trips for a month straight isn't a good thing. I think where those who have mentioned and pointed out that ICE are better for long trips, they also don't handle constant short tripping well. The inconvenience for those that never do more than 1-2 mile increments that the ICE car is a pretty poor proposition. That was one of the main driving forces to get my wife an EV especially since we always went places in my vehicle. The funny thing is because of how much we liked using it, it became our family trip car. It's helped keep miles off of mine and I actually like using it myself. I absolutely hated how the Ford Edge she had before drove, so even though it would have been slightly more fuel efficient than my F150 that was my daily, we just didn't drive it. The truck was more convenient. Then I got the GTI and the whole family agreed it was still more comfortable than the Edge and rode better than both vehicles.
Buying an EV today is a huge loss opportunity.
FB Marketplace: A kind gentlemen is trying to dump his 2013 Tesla for $15k, but he is clearly stating it needs a new battery which is $15k from Tesla.
Its simple economies of scale, where people are buying first generation product with very diminished returns, while subsidizing a trend that does have potential. I'm glad Toyota is listening and doing things smart: Not getting involved until Solid State technology is there, and sticking with a 500 mile range, which equates to almost an 8 hour road trip. See you in 2026, and if you bought an EV in the last 13 years, suck it up buttercup.
FB Marketplace: A kind gentlemen is trying to dump his 2013 Tesla for $15k, but he is clearly stating it needs a new battery which is $15k from Tesla.
Its simple economies of scale, where people are buying first generation product with very diminished returns, while subsidizing a trend that does have potential. I'm glad Toyota is listening and doing things smart: Not getting involved until Solid State technology is there, and sticking with a 500 mile range, which equates to almost an 8 hour road trip. See you in 2026, and if you bought an EV in the last 13 years, suck it up buttercup.
The Gelding?
The only downside in waiting until it's right is that everyone that has already been making them have it pretty well figured out while they're just starting to get their feet wet. There's a balancing act possible for sure, but the innovators are usually the most rewarded through history if they can stay with it long term. That's where the balance does come in to play though, many innovators go bankrupt trying.Buying an EV today is a huge loss opportunity.
FB Marketplace: A kind gentlemen is trying to dump his 2013 Tesla for $15k, but he is clearly stating it needs a new battery which is $15k from Tesla.
Its simple economies of scale, where people are buying first generation product with very diminished returns, while subsidizing a trend that does have potential. I'm glad Toyota is listening and doing things smart: Not getting involved until Solid State technology is there, and sticking with a 500 mile range, which equates to almost an 8 hour road trip. See you in 2026, and if you bought an EV in the last 13 years, suck it up buttercup.
I get wanting 500 miles, but you can do that with current offerings with a 15 minute stop. I get waiting for the next big thing, but there will always be a next big thing. I don't mean you're going to miss out by not jumping in, but if it's what you ultimately want, why wait?
OMG!!!!!
You obviously don't own a company.
How a company did 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago is absolutely relevant today. It's their track record so to say.
History matters, and only a fool would think otherwise!
If I am selling a company of mine, the prospective buyers don't just look at the financials for the last quarter, or the last year.
If they did anyone who planned to sell a business would just give their company a nice cash infusion, and stop doing any non emergency repairs for the short term, to make it look more profitable. Then let the new owner deal with the night of nothing being properly done for the past year, and corners being cut.
I sold a business 3 months ago, they looked at the books from the day I purchased it 16 years prior, to see the history. Nobody in business says only the last quarter, or last year, or two years matters.
Outrageous!
But you have 5 vehicles, only 1 of which is an ev, so you have hedged your bets, by keeping 80% of your rides burning gasoline.
So for you an ev makes total sense, and you're also in a populated and warm environment.
Yep. That's why I say, it depends on your use case.
The other thing is, I installed solar panels over 5 years ago, so the cost to gas up the EV serves to get more benefit from the asset.
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