EV sales rise and key revenue from gas tax plunges

What about hybrids, that get 50 mpg but weigh more due to the battery?
Do a weight-based annual registration fee.

Road damage goes up by the fourth power of axle weight, but, realistically, anything under 6000 lbs gets lumped together by most states for simplicity. If we were trying to actually be fair, semi trucks would have to pay even more, but I'm ok subsidizing infrastructure we all benefit from.
 
I don't know what to say to you Jk. I have never seen where you admit you were wrong about so many things, when called out you do not respond just carry on with some other subject. I do not keep track because I couldn't care less but I am not wrong with the taxes ev drivers don't pay, there is something obviously wrong as your own state is looking at a revenue short fall and blaming it on ev's. You prefer to shoot the guy posting the story and the people who wrote the article than blame the actual culprit, your own state.

The point is you post on this forum like the tesla brand ambassador, the all things tesla expert and in reality you have had the car almost 6 years and only put by your own admission 19K on it. Cripes the way you carry on it sounded like you long tripped the thing and were an authority on charging and the "learning curve", I would not be surprised if it was on the original tires. Sorry but yes it is hilarious, hence the LOL.
You are wrong in so many ways. Sure, EVs don't pay gas tax; in CA we pay road tax instead. You said we paid nothing.
Of course the gas tax revenue goes down as more EVs and overall fuel efficiency goes up. Blame Prius and the other hybrids as well; there are a lot of them running around. Make sense? There is a shortfall. This needs to be addressed.

I post about my experience in the EV section. This is the EV section. I post about my other experiences in the proper forum.

Our Model 3 is on 3 original Continental tires and 1 new due to damage. My GS350 F Sport is on newer Michelin Pilot Sports, the TSX is on new Michelin Pilot Sport AS. I could go on if you like. I have 2 sets of wheels/tires for the Vette; 16x8 Chrome Ralleys and 50 Series Comp TAs and the original 15x7 Corvette Ralleys with BFG F70 rubber. My 4-4-2 is running Firestone white letter but don't look right; it needs a white stripe tire to better match the dog dish hubcaps.

If my tires and driving habits are that important to you, you should really get a life. By the way, Mad Magazine is a better read than the Daily News. No wonder you are so misinformed.
68 side.webp
 
The states that want to slap road use tax on EVs are putting the equivalent in gas tax to running a suburban about 16,000 miles per year. I guess it's politician math.
I don't think anyone can say we aren't paying for the weight and then some for the price, unless it's the Hummer EV that has its own gravitational pull it's so heavy.
 
I don't think anyone can say we aren't paying for the weight and then some for the price, unless it's the Hummer EV that has its own gravitational pull it's so heavy.
Yeah charging $500 for a 9,000lb hummer EV which creates it's own tidal surge makes sense, for small cars and plug in hybrids, not so much.
 
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A tax on kWh reported by the car through the charge port solves this. It's the same as paying per litre or per gallon. Charging at home, the car communicates the kWh it pulls to your smart meter. Public charge stations already know how many kWh you buy, so that's even easier.
Agreed, but I think a mileage use might be a better metric. The fuel efficiency continues to rise, due in part by hybrid technology resulting in lower revenue given the same tax rate. My guesstimate is the bigger revenue drop in CA is due to hybrid sales (and increased fuel efficiency) as compared to EVs. EVs may already pay more via registration than many cars that consume the same mileage.

Mileage assessment could be tough because some CA drivers may suffer due to out of state driving?

Because of the fixed registration road fee for EVs in CA, it's probable that some owners are paying more than Prius or other efficient vehicles. Plus registration based is pay up front while fuel based is pay as you go. Your kWh solution may be more equitable.

I don't favor the idea of increasing the gas tax, because that hits people who cannot afford EVs or say a RAV4 hybrid.
My Tundra may be subsidizing most of CA... Ha!
 
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Fairest approach is to cast a few nets... annual registration fees, gas taxes, and (shudder) tolls. Don't make any one component too onerous or punitive, and incentivize using the most efficient vehicle for the job instead of a "one size fits all."
 
Norway is the model that which ev policy makers are studying of what works and what doesnt.

But the country’s car associations and environmental groups believe the four most likely to make a comeback are taxes for plug-in hybrids, a tax for second-hand EV sales, a tax for “luxury EVs” that cost more than 600,000 Norwegian krone ($68,650), and the resurrection of an annual ownership tax for EVs
When a Norwegian purchases and registers a new vehicle, they are assessed three main taxes: a weight tax, a carbon (CO2) emissions tax, and a nitrogen oxides (NOx) emissions tax.

In the tax proposal, the NOx tax is set equal to $12.67 multiplied by the number of milligrams of NOx that the vehicle emits per mile driven. The Bureau of Transportation Services estimates that the average light-duty vehicle in the US emits 157 mg of NOx per mile driven. Such a car would thus be subject to a one-off registration tax of $1,989 in Norway.

The CO2 tax is assessed similarly to the NOx tax except that it is a progressive tax with rates that increase along with how much carbon a vehicle emits per mile driven.

According to the Department of Energy (Norway), the average light-duty vehicle produced in 2021 emitted 348 grams of CO2 per mile driven. Such a vehicle would have faced a $27,167 tax in Norway.

Like the CO2 tax, the vehicle weight tax is assessed progressively, with heavier vehicles being taxed at a higher rate than lighter vehicles. Prior to 2023, electric vehicles were not subject to the weight tax. In 2023, they will be subject to a weight tax but at a much lower rate than non-electric vehicles. The following graph sums up the weight tax schedule


That being said, as others have pointed out, taxes can be collected for one use, but repurposed for another use.
 
We all pay road taxes with our tags for EVs. I'm sure California is the same and they are calling it something different, but that's what it's said it's for. My fee is $200, which is about twice what I paid in gas tax for the car it replaced. My tags for my Tesla end up being 3x what they are for my VW because of it.

All this number tells me though is that EVs are obviously replacing cars that covered a lot of miles. If it makes you feel bad you can buy more gas.


No they're charging exorbitant amounts, but while that number is supposed to go into the road fund I'm sure it's calculated separate from the gas tax itself. Plus if they did that properly it wouldn't allow mindless rants about people not paying their fair share for road use.
You think a one time fee of $200 is exorbitant?

Try paying $3,000/year to own that Tesla in Virginia, where you get levied property tax on your car, based on Blue Book value.

Take a look:

https://cor.virginiabeach.gov/vehicles/personal-property

I am being generous, by the way, a $100,000 car pays $4,000 in property tax.

I‘m surprised California hasn’t taken that route, quite honestly.

There needs to be a simple road use tax, pay for what you use. A few cents a mile for every mile driven, and that shortfall would be made up.
 
You think a one time fee of $200 is exorbitant?

Try paying $3,000/year to own that Tesla in Virginia, where you get levied property tax on your car, based on Blue Book value.

Take a look:

https://cor.virginiabeach.gov/vehicles/personal-property

I am being generous, by the way, a $100,000 car pays $4,000 in property tax.

I‘m surprised California hasn’t taken that route, quite honestly.

There needs to be a simple road use tax, pay for what you use. A few cents a mile for every mile driven, and that shortfall would be made up.
Astro, does that annual registration take the place of some other tax, like low or no state income tax? What are the funds used for? Are your streets lined with gold?
By the way, I find that tax flat out crazy.
 
Yes indeed, everyone will pay. All the apartment complexes that the law will eventually require EV chargers for every resident - you may live in a single family home but you're going to pay for it.

Scott
This has never made sense to me, every apartment I’ve been in has 110vac by most every assigned parking space since the 70’s and you pay for your own electricity. These outlets are for block heaters and to run normal battery chargers or lights to do simple maintenance on your car.

Normal humans don’t need L2 to do their day to day (50 miles)

If you need more too bad so sad, go to a paid dc charger.

Nothing like taking a $5 problem and turning it into a $5000 one.

By the way, I find that tax flat out crazy.
That tax structure is the model legislation being pushed for adoption nationwide, ALEC and trucking groups want to make having a car of any type extremely expensive offloading freight costs to individuals.

My state had one ma roads but saying every man woman and child needed to pay $10,000 a year to repair bad infrastructure.

He also said of hybrids/EVs that maybe if we tax them enough they will push on the gas pedal.

The reality is that “fair share” is 100% BS, most of us owe nothing on roads as the damage is all done by freight. (In my state I rarely touch highways and local roads get minimal gas tax funding anyway)

Legally registration fees were NEVER supposed to make money or pay for roads, only cover notory cost.

As has been proven, if no road taxes were collected it has zero affect on actual budgeting for roads. There has to be will to fund roads and ballooning the road fund to excessive just builds new offices for staff.

The idea individuals should be paying lots of extra fees for roads is laughable because the fees rarely get used there.

Montana had the right idea, make private party car license plates permanent and non-expiring over the life of the car you own, eliminate a massive number of DMV jobs/cost, also eliminates a lot of policing and judicial costs.

Keep gas taxes because they are over 99% efficient at collection, keep tolls because they reduce traffic, tax commercial operators more since they do more damage and get the rest from general funds.

The above is basically what is done nationwide anyway (general funds roads)

DMV fees collections are extraordinarily inefficient with only about half not being lost to legal, enforcement, notory, etc. our local emissions program (in containment counties) has been loosing money for decades despite being moderately expensive.
Fees to individuals are always optional and drive large legal and policing expenses, as such they waste money and serve little purpose.

We already charge thousands of different taxes that can and already are used for roads.
Until we come up with something similar to gas tax we can simply continue adjusting taxes we already have and fund roads.

I’ve been hearing roads aren’t being properly funded for 3 decades, after several massive expansions to road funding absolutely nothing has changed.

It appears that more road taxes have no coorelation to road quality so why worry about it?
 
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Astro, does that annual registration take the place of some other tax, like low or no state income tax? What are the funds used for? Are your streets lined with gold?
By the way, I find that tax flat out crazy.
That annual registration tax is a property tax levied by the municipality. In this case, Virginia Beach. Ostensibly used for roads, but in practice, added to the slush fund. Our roads are average, at best. The city does a poor job with roads here. The state spends the money in Northern Virginia, where the money is, and where the lobbyists live. Huge projects there. Not so much down here.

The state gasoline tax is high, about 39c/gallon, ranking us 9th in the nation. Not California high, but above New York and Connecticut, which aren’t know for low fuel prices.

The state income tax is graduated, not flat, and tops out at 5.75%, which is about middle of the road, for those 44 states with income tax.

So, no, there are no offsets to that tax, and no, it doesn’t get us better roads. The gasoline tax hasn’t been raised in decades, and the funding is insufficient for the state’s highway needs.

While I am generally anti-tax, paying for road construction and maintenance needs to be funded, and if gas taxes aren’t doing it because cars are running on something besides gasoline,, the only fair way to do it, is to tax those other types of vehicles (hydrogen, Mr. Fusion, whatever) at a similar rate per mile.

In the case of California, with a tax of 80c/gallon, and the average MPG around, say, 30, a tax of about 3c/mile would be fair, which means your $100/year is the equivalent of 3,000 miles. I would suggest that $400 - $500/year is your share of road tax on the Tesla, assuming 12,000-15,000 miles.

I am not in favor of tracking miles, way too big brother for me, but you could report the miles each year, and pay the tax, and when you sell the car, or it is taken off the road, and the odometer is recorded for the sale/junkyard, your final levy would be due. If you had under-reported, then, well, time to pay up.
 
Try paying $3,000/year to own that Tesla in Virginia, where you get levied property tax on your car, based on Blue Book value.
You also pay property tax on a ICE car. "The Personal Property Taxpayers division assesses all vehicles including cars, trucks, trailers, motorcycles, motor homes, aircraft and watercraft. Mobile homes on temporary foundations are also assessed as personal property."

Here in SC we pay property tax annually on everything based on value and millage. Anything with a title pretty much, car, boat, RV. So in this respect in SC a EV is no different than anything else. It appears VA is no different.

Might work in CA - but does the state have the right to tax real property - or only the counties?

Here the taxes are levied by the county and go into the counties general fund.
 
Do you not also pay property tax on a ICE car?

Here in SC we pay property tax annually on everything based on value and millage. Anything with a title pretty much, car, boat, RV. So in this respect in SC a EV is no different than anything else.

The taxes are levied by the county and go into the counties general fund.
Well, of course you do! The tax has been around forever. My 8 year old Toyota pickup is still about $1,500/year.

My point was: complaining about a $100/year tax for road use is laughable in the face of the other taxes on vehicles.
 
Revenue from the horse and buggy tax is way down since 1920, too.
Yep. Point is: you use the roads, you should pay for that use. The only fair method is based on consumption, that is, miles, and the weight factor, frankly, is more fair. A Civic creates far less wear per mile than an F250, so miles and weight, like Norway.
 
Wow!

I thought I had it bad. My wife's 2019 Rav4 is like $400 a year. My beloved 2008 Xterra they have determined is value-less. Its about $30 a year. Plus $40 each for the sticker (that goes to the DMV/state)
Yeah, the Volvo XC is about $16/year and the R model is about $60/year. The S600 isn’t much, but the SL is quite high.

There are a couple of incentives for keeping older cars here, and property tax is among them.
 
Everything in my signature - plus my utility and boat trailers - all run $60-$80 per year each - inspections are under $10 …
No complaints - we can even get a break if the trailer has not been used … (reset to get a full year) …
 
The states that want to slap road use tax on EVs are putting the equivalent in gas tax to running a suburban about 16,000 miles per year. I guess it's politician math.
Well, we elect them, so no one to blame but ourselves. (no politics or political parties, just a statement)

The problem with your statement is there are 50 states in the USA and each one has its own gas tax, sales tax, and whatever else tax the state puts on it. So one would have to compare one state with your statement.

Also keep in mind the EV owner is getting a free ride at the cost of ICE owners when it comes to the Federal Tax of 18.4 cents a gallon. So sooner or later the Feds need to come up with the solution for that as Federal Highway Funds are a big part of interstate road maintenance.

Im all for EVs paying their fair share and more but it's going to take a while. Somehow as another might have mentioned in here, there will be need for chargers/or a device to recognize the electronic signatures of an EV and apply the appropriate tax. This tax should be more than the gasoline tax. we will need taxes to upgrade the electric grid in each state and generating capacity and lets not forget the Federal Highway tax that they are not currently paying.

So anyway, Im not disputing your numbers but I hope EV owners fully pay their own way someday and I suspect possibly your numbers if applied might be on the low side if all the above isnt taken into account.
I have full faith in our taxing authorities to one day collect every last penny!!! *LOL*

Btw- just discussing here, not debating at all. :)
 
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