EV sales rise and key revenue from gas tax plunges

[demarpaint]

That would be the fair thing to do. But so far, no one has figured a way to easily do this. Asking EV owners to report mileage each year at registration will likely result in under reporting. Have a LEO verify mileage at registration? Cumbersome and expensive, with better use of the time of a LEO. Track it electronically, like other metrics that can be picked up from cars? Seems like an intrusion on privacy to most.

Here we have annual inspections, a money grab, but in any event the mileage is logged and reported to NYS along with the car either passing or failing the inspection. It would be a bit of work, but bills could be sent out to all EV owners for the miles they drove over the year. Don't pay it and the car gets impounded if you're caught speeding, blowing a light, etc.

 

[Torrid]

Here we have annual inspections, a money grab, but in any event the mileage is logged and reported to NYS along with the car either passing or failing the inspection. It would be a bit of work, but bills could be sent out to all EV owners for the miles they drove over the year. Don't pay it and the car gets impounded if you're caught speeding, blowing a light, etc.

Or just pay it on the spot since the mileage is being grabbed. I had to in order to get the tags handed to me. Don't pay it and now you're driving on expired tags.

 

[PandaBear]

What I see it has more to do with people work from home far more than before, than EVs. I may be wrong but I use probably 1/2 to 1/3 of the gas I used to use before pandemic. Same car.

 

[Rmay635703]

I thought they were already taxing EV's at registration. I guess they didn't charge enough?

Gas taxes falling has nothing to do with EVs, red herring.

Even in my area with ~5000 plug ins out of millions of gas cars (statistically irrelevant) road funding has dropped, this despite increasing fees and wheel taxes on everybody it’s still fallen.

Fewer recreational Miles driven , recession indicators in many high paying industries and increased gas and semi fuel Economy coupled with inflation has actually had more of an affect.

Also Most areas actually charge an EV more on average than a typical gas car, meaning EVs should actually be increasing taxes collected. Some states also charge the insurance company itself taxes on each vehicle policy,
EVs pay higher insurance and higher taxes there as well.


I find all this amusing because…
I remember a time 15 years ago when if someone complained about insufficient road funding the universal answer was “good.”
Literally no one cared and as we go into the future the solution isn’t making driving even more expensive because a lot of people just opt out.

Increase gas taxes fine it’s not completely avoidable , but don’t overcharge on property, insurance and registration taxes as many folks opt out.

This is why half of road funding rightly comes from general funds, it’s not regressive and is a “common good”. It also doesn’t drive a multi million dollar boondoggle to create and enforce

 

[demarpaint]

Or just pay it on the spot since the mileage is being grabbed. I had to in order to get the tags handed to me. Don't pay it and now you're driving on expired tags.

That would work, but the NYS inspections are done by private shops, so there would be more bookkeeping for the owners, and probably lots of complaints unless they're getting a piece of that action.

 

[Torrid]

That would work, but the NYS inspections are done by private shops, so there would be more bookkeeping for the owners, and probably lots of complaints unless they're getting a piece of that action.

Ah I see. The only ones I've dealt with were on DMV property. I was not aware that's how it was being done.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

California has the highest gas taxes and among the worst roads in the nation. Every time they raise the gas tax, the roads continue to get worse. What makes you think raising taxes on EVs will make any difference?
On another note, I'm not sure how much I'd trust that article. I suspect the analysis includes a wistful EV adoption rate that will exist only in AL Gore's fantasy world.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I pay excise tax (road tax) and state and federal gas tax. IMO ev drivers should pay at a minimum the same as gas cars pay in fuel tax and a higher road tax due to the additional weight these vehicles place on the roads, ditto for heavy pickups. 1000 -1500 a year seems fair.

Unlikely to happen since domestic automakers generate most of their revenue selling heavy SUV/Trucks. These heavier vehicles have historically received a pass on CAFE numbers after all.

 

[alarmguy]

That would be the fair thing to do. But so far, no one has figured a way to easily do this. Asking EV owners to report mileage each year at registration will likely result in under reporting. Have a LEO verify mileage at registration? Cumbersome and expensive, with better use of the time of a LEO. Track it electronically, like other metrics that can be picked up from cars? Seems like an intrusion on privacy to most.

On the state level such as California your mileage is reported every year during an inspection

 

[alarmguy]

Here we have annual inspections, a money grab, but in any event the mileage is logged and reported to NYS along with the car either passing or failing the inspection. It would be a bit of work, but bills could be sent out to all EV owners for the miles they drove over the year. Don't pay it and the car gets impounded if you're caught speeding, blowing a light, etc.

The enforcement part is easy. Just like if you don’t get your car inspected if you don’t pay the tax you lose the registration.
That’s very common in other states, including Connecticut, as well as mid Atlantic states already have a car property tax if you don’t pay the tax, you can’t renew the registration

 

[NiwradND]

Well this is a big surprise, any halfwit could foresee this happening yet CA seems better than anywhere else at dimwitted half baked ideas.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-roads-electric-car-tax-gas-sales-plunge.html

Californians only half dimwitted ? you know better than that!

 

[alarmguy]

Gas taxes falling has nothing to do with EVs, red herring.

Even in my area with ~5000 plug ins out of millions of gas cars (statistically irrelevant) road funding has dropped, this despite increasing fees and wheel taxes on everybody it’s still fallen.

Fewer recreational Miles driven , recession indicators in many high paying industries and increased gas and semi fuel Economy coupled with inflation has actually had more of an affect.

Also Most areas actually charge an EV more on average than a typical gas car, meaning EVs should actually be increasing taxes collected. Some states also charge the insurance company itself taxes on each vehicle policy,
EVs pay higher insurance and higher taxes there as well.
…
This is why half of road funding rightly comes from general funds, it’s not regressive and is a “common good”. It also doesn’t drive a multi million dollar boondoggle to create and enforce

This is a national and international forum.
It would not be correct to apply your one state use of your state gasoline tax to the entire nation.
Many states that collect gasoline tax money gets diverted to other use other than the roadways. The public is not supporting the roadways in the general fund. Gasoline sales tax is going to the general fund and supporting other things instead of roadways.
This is just an example of why an individual state use of its income cannot be applied to an entire country

https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-away-from-roads/

Make sure to read the whole article because down at the bottom is a detailed explanation that each state diverts from its gasoline sales tax. For example New York State spends $600 million of gasoline sales tax money on things unrelated to the roads.

You may want to note your own state Wisconsin, diverts $123 million dollars from its gasoline, tax income to other purposes

This is why it needs to be read in its entirety, because these numbers are conservative, not counted in the numbers debt payments, which makes things even more worse of money being diverted instead of building and improving roads

“Connecticut, for example, allocates 40% of its gas tax revenue, equivalent to $610 million, toward debt services for transportation-related bonds. While this list does not count debt servicing as a diversion, almost a quarter of all transportation bond revenue in FY2019 supported transit. Accordingly, it is possible that Connecticut uses a portion of gas tax revenue to fund transit-related bonding that has little to do with roads or highways”

 

[Torrid]

This is a national and international forum.
It would not be correct to apply your one state use of your state gasoline tax to the entire nation.
Most states that collect gasoline tax money gets diverted to other use other than the roadways. The public is not supporting the roadways in the general fund. Gasoline sales tax is going to the general fund and supporting other things instead of roadways.
This is just an example of why an individual state use of its income cannot be applied to an entire country

https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-away-from-roads/

Make sure to read the whole article because down at the bottom is a detailed explanation that each state diverts from its gasoline sales tax. For example New York State spends $600 million of gasoline sales tax money on things unrelated to the roads

This was my exact concern with the flat rate EV tax. If it’s not going there it’s bad. I didn’t know it was happening on fuel taxes too. No wonder there’s an issue.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The article is pretty misleading and incomplete. In CA we pay $100 or more per year at registration time for EVs to offset the gas tax, regardless of mileage. This fee is being tied to the CPI; it will continue to increase.

California has the highest gasoline excise tax in the nation; the revenue goes to the Highway Users Tax Account that funds
the construction and maintenance of public roads, mass transit systems, airports, and waterways. In addition, California's gas tax also funds large-scale infrastructure, environmental compliance for transportation projects, and initiatives to protect natural habitats.

The tax revenue has gone down and is expected to do so from EV and hybrid vehicles use, and in general better fuel efficiency across the board. The pandemic caused a big drop in gas consumption; this has been recovering.

Those declines in tax dollars will be partially offset by the state's new road improvement fee, which drivers pay when they register their electric cars for the 1st time, currently $118. I expect gas taxes and registrations to increase, use of other funds and possibly a fee based on annual mileage. The mileage based fee makes the most sense to me. I am against raising the gas tax because it unfairly affects low income households who cannot afford an EV or even any new car.

We will manage this; change is not easy. Throwing stones is easy.

I am not surprised at this article, considering the source. The Daily Mail has been criticized for its unreliability, its printing of sensationalist and inaccurate scare stories about science and medical research, and for instances of plagiarism and copyright infringement. Heck, in February 2017, the English Wikipedia banned the use of the Daily Mail as a reliable source.

Believe what you want, but facts matter.

 

[Torrid]

@JeffKeryk Thank you, that confirms what I assumed was the case with the road tax. I figured California did not miss out on the opportunity to collect that fee.

 

[Danno]

That would work, but the NYS inspections are done by private shops, so there would be more bookkeeping for the owners, and probably lots of complaints unless they're getting a piece of that action.

Private shops probably have to electronically log their inspections, and mileage would have to be completed. I see mileages on CARFAX reports for oil changes, safety inspections etc., so it's not a stretch to say the info is there, it's just a matter of the gov't extracting the data already in the database.

 

[alarmguy]

Taxes will continue to come to electric vehicles, somehow the federal government has to figure out how to tax them.

Owners of gasoline cars are paying 18.4 cents a gallon in federal excise tax. This funds the interstate system and giveaways to individual states. I have no idea if money is diverted to other causes as well, but I think we could all guess at that one!

 

[fantastic]

This whole post just reads "Discredit CA & blame EV's in the process".

 

[demarpaint]

Private shops probably have to electronically log their inspections, and mileage would have to be completed. I see mileages on CARFAX reports for oil changes, safety inspections etc., so it's not a stretch to say the info is there, it's just a matter of the gov't extracting the data already in the database.

They do log into NYS to report the inspection. Having them collect the fee for miles driven along with the inspection fee, might be a stretch, that's why I said let the state send bills. The enforcement is the easy part imo. Bottom line is something can be done.

 

[CR94]

I was just reading an article where Kentucky is addressing this very situation. As EV and hybrid cars increase, state fuel tax income has been on the decrease. So Kentucky is adding $120 for EV and $60 for hybrid to the annual registration, and $0.03/kW at EV charge stations. Their theory is that a majority portion of the $0.03/kW charge station surcharge will be paid by out of state travelers.

Taxing fuel and taxing recharge energy makes sense. Double-taxing "regular" hybrids, which obtain all their energy from fuel, does not. I'm paying nearly as much fuel tax as I would've travelling the same annual distance with my previous gasoline burner, plus the annual hybrid registration penalty that also exceeds the fuel tax for the gasoline car.

If they really need more $$$ for roads, they should simply raise the existing tax. It isn't absolutely fair, but it's closer to fair than any other way, and is easy to collect without infringing on anyone's privacy.