American manufacturing

[CivicFan]

The key is to always remain at a level of high value added manufacturing. Trying to compete with China on low skill manufacturing like toy production is foolish. As a country we have to invest in our people and infrastructure so that we are producing sophisticated items that no one else can manufacture. It can be done and is being done by other countries. Just today, there was an article about the German exports rising. They methodically invest in their population and pursue a kind of manufacturing they are the best at. You will not see a mainstream Adidas shoe made in Germany but you will see high precision scalpels used in brain surgery made in Germany. Do we have the political will to invest in infrastructure, technologies, education and health of our fellow citizens?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: kb01

I just had a physical which cost around $400. I really don't see why something like this couldn't have been done remotely and the only local interaction with a medical tech who takes vitals and draws blood. The lab work could have been overnighted to India and an Indian doctor via Skype could have taken my history. I would do it in a heartbeat if it meant lower medical bills and lower insurance costs.

So, you'd rather outsource your medical care to India because your current system "costs too much"??????? I got a physical about 8 months ago. It didn't cost me anything but the gas to drive to my Dr's office. And nothing had to be outsourced to India to have it happen. Maybe you should be looking north, rather than east. Or maybe that sucking sound needs to get louder........

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

The key is to always remain at a level of high value added manufacturing. Trying to compete with China on low skill manufacturing like toy production is foolish. As a country we have to invest in our people and infrastructure so that we are producing sophisticated items that no one else can manufacture. It can be done and is being done by other countries. Just today, there was an article about the German exports rising. They methodically invest in their population and pursue a kind of manufacturing they are the best at. You will not see a mainstream Adidas shoe made in Germany but you will see high precision scalpels used in brain surgery made in Germany. Do we have the political will to invest in infrastructure, technologies, education and health of our fellow citizens?

We need to have the political will to let people keep their own money and make their own investment decisions. We are already "investing" over 35% of our GDP in the things you state. How much more do we need to be "investing"?

 

[Tempest]

The main reason for the drop in manufacturing jobs is improved productivity through technology. Some jobs have been lost to China and other places but in reality, those places have simply ADDED to the supply of products, not displaced them. People complain about China and their low currency. The fact is that the low currency (via money printing) aids our purchasing power and improves our standard of living at their cost. They do this because they have hundreds of millions of people with nothing to do and they don't want a revolution. If there were lower taxes and regulations then manufacturing would make a very strong come back due to our world leading productivity.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

The key is to always remain at a level of high value added manufacturing. Trying to compete with China on low skill manufacturing like toy production is foolish. As a country we have to invest in our people and infrastructure so that we are producing sophisticated items that no one else can manufacture. It can be done and is being done by other countries. Just today, there was an article about the German exports rising. They methodically invest in their population and pursue a kind of manufacturing they are the best at. You will not see a mainstream Adidas shoe made in Germany but you will see high precision scalpels used in brain surgery made in Germany. Do we have the political will to invest in infrastructure, technologies, education and health of our fellow citizens?

We need to have the political will to let people keep their own money and make their own investment decisions. We are already "investing" over 35% of our GDP in the things you state. How much more do we need to be "investing"?

You might have noticed that I was referring us as a nation, not as individual investors.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

You might have noticed that I was referring us as a nation, not as individual investors.

It matters who does the "investing". It shouldn't be a political decision.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

If there were lower taxes and regulations then manufacturing would make a very strong come back due to our world leading productivity.

How much lower tax can make your wage reduced to $2.50 an hour?

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

So, you'd rather outsource your medical care to India because your current system "costs too much"??????? I got a physical about 8 months ago. It didn't cost me anything but the gas to drive to my Dr's office. And nothing had to be outsourced to India to have it happen. Maybe you should be looking north, rather than east. Or maybe that sucking sound needs to get louder........

How did it not cost you anything? Was it some kind of special promotion? I should look north, like to Minnesota or Vermont? Health care is cheaper up there? And yes, it did cost me $400 which actually wasn't too bad. It was the $1,000/month for health insurance which is the painful part. The average cost for a family policy in the USA is $14,000/year. Something must be done to control costs and if that means I need to teleconference with a doctor in India or Pakistan, then so be it. I'm not happy about it but in a few years when it's $18,000 or $20,000 I really don't see any alternative.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

How much lower tax can make your wage reduced to $2.50 an hour?

This makes no sense.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

You might have noticed that I was referring us as a nation, not as individual investors.

It matters who does the "investing". It shouldn't be a political decision.

Investing is not only buying stocks. What I call "investing in the future as a nation" you call "wasteful government spending". Substitute that in my earlier post and it will be clear what I am talking about.

 

[PandaBear]

One of the major problem in the health care cost in the US is not only that it is high (out of patients pocket, rather than government, as they are from taxes or other sources). The problem is the uncertain and volatile nature of the cost. Young and healthy and want to roll your dice? Sure, you save some money until... something hit you and you are bankrupt, or you got a pre-exist condition that write your health off for life, or when you get old and are un-insurable, or when you lose your job, or when your coworker got sick and make your entire risk pool un-insurable due to cost. Which none of these are manageable risk, and most citizens cannot bear the result, and the volatility is so large that you cannot let demand and supply optimize the cost on its own. Go ahead and blame the victim all you want, but don't come back and ask for sympathy when it hit you or one of your family some day. There's no easy solution other than to tradeoff some risk / death scenario with cost (like declaring someone dead if it is too expensive to treat), limit fixed priced / insurance coverage to only high expense (and let the demand and supply take care of those cheap $400 doctor visits), have everyone pay more (via insurance or tax for socialized medicine) to cover everything, or simply reduce quality (outsource to India or China, increase doctor and nurse supply but reduce their entrance requirement, eliminate some tests for low risk scenario and hoping things will be unlikely). Take your choice.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

How much lower tax can make your wage reduced to $2.50 an hour?

This makes no sense.

Exactly, so how can you lower tax enough to have businesses come back from a $2.5 / hr wage to a $14-27 / hr wage. Please do the math.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

You might have noticed that I was referring us as a nation, not as individual investors.

It matters who does the "investing". It shouldn't be a political decision.

Investing is not only buying stocks. What I call "investing in the future as a nation" you call "wasteful government spending". Substitute that in my earlier post and it will be clear what I am talking about.

I am very clear what you are talking about, and I am not talking about stocks. As I said, FED gov. spending and regulation conformity consumes 35% of GDP. This does not include State spending and regulation compliance. This is money pulled out of people's wallets and reduces the availability of resources for R&D, productivity upgrades, new plant construction.... That is why I asked you, how much more should we be "investing" in wasteful government spending than we are now?

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

How much lower tax can make your wage reduced to $2.50 an hour?

This makes no sense.

Exactly, so how can you lower tax enough to have businesses come back from a $2.5 / hr wage to a $14-27 / hr wage. Please do the math.

You completely ignore productivity.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

If there were lower taxes and regulations then manufacturing would make a very strong come back due to our world leading productivity.

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Exactly, so how can you lower tax enough to have businesses come back from a $2.5 / hr wage to a $14-27 / hr wage. Please do the math.

Originally Posted By: Tempest

You completely ignore productivity.

You only see tax as the problem and ignore the fundamental (China being 1/5 to 1/10 of our per hour cost). I do not see us being 5x to 10x more productive when equip with the same equipment and technologies (which can be moved to China to make them productive as we are). You can lower tax by that much, but then it would go negative be called a subsidization, which you hate, and not a tax cut.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Originally Posted By: Tempest

If there were lower taxes and regulations then manufacturing would make a very strong come back due to our world leading productivity.

How much lower tax can make your wage reduced to $2.50 an hour?

I think he would prefer if people worked for free. Just imagine the productivity.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:

I do not see us being 5x to 10x more productive when equip with the same equipment and technologies (which can be moved to China to make them productive as we are).

They do not have the same advantage. Again, you are not dealing with reality, but with a straw man. Labor is cheap there, machines are not, and the government wants people occupied so they don't revolt. They have little reason to invest in large productivity gains as our capitalist society does. And productivity = wealth. Not say that they have not increased productivity, but it is nothing close to that of the US.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Originally Posted By: Tempest

If there were lower taxes and regulations then manufacturing would make a very strong come back due to our world leading productivity.

How much lower tax can make your wage reduced to $2.50 an hour?

I think he would prefer if people worked for free. Just imagine the productivity.

Don't want to answer my question, eh? It's actually the policies of the Chinese government that is keeping it's people poor. Their standard of living would be much greater if the government got out of the way. This has been proven when their government became more amenable to free-er markets in the 1970's. The Chinese government is being forced to become more capitalist in order to prevent a civil war. No amount of "government investment" prior to the reforms made a hill of beans.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

They do not have the same advantage. Again, you are not dealing with reality, but with a straw man. Labor is cheap there, machines are not, and the government wants people occupied so they don't revolt. They have little reason to invest in large productivity gains as our capitalist society does. And productivity = wealth. Not say that they have not increased productivity, but it is nothing close to that of the US.

Nope, you are the one that's not dealing with reality. You will never get the same efficiency (in unit measure of stuff produced per person, not stuff produced per dollar of cost of fixed or variable cost). There is no reason to pay a super duper street cleaning truck when you can hire 30 street sweepers for 1 year for the same cost of 1 of these truck with a higher paid driver that cost 3 street sweepers' salary. That's the reality, that's why we have good productivity because we are too expensive without them. Chinese has many reason to spend on productivity gain. They couldn't afford it or their cost is so low for using human power at the moment, that it doesn't make sense in some cases. Example: You see cargo container ship and docks, you see robots in the factory, you see fork lift, you see automated assembly line, but you do not see self checkout in grocery stores and you do not see GPS controlled tractor working the field (you do see some hand push or mini tractor instead of buffalos however), becaues they don't make sense. Tempest, the reason their productivity isn't as high as ours is not because their government intentionally suppress people into poverty, but it is because the math doesn't add up. You loath infrastructure project because you believe they do not pay back over time in productivity gain vs the money spent, it is the same reason China doesn't spend excessively to boost productivity, because they don't always make the return on investment.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:

the same reason China doesn't spend excessively to boost productivity, because they don't always make the return on investment.

Exactly as I stated. I'm not sure why you say I'm not dealing with reality when you are agreeing with me?