Engine oil for brand new 6.4 Hemi in Charger?

[ARCOgraphite]

Not after 2023 though. Adios Stellantis hello FoMoCo

More overheard trash talk:


"Buy a classic Dodge or Plymouth. Not an overweight E class mercedes with a pretend hemi.
You can keep callin' it a "hemi" but it don't make it true !"


https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1966/plymouth/satellite/101645735

 

[LouC]

Well, since the original Hemi cylinder head wasn't so good for emissions, that might have been the best they could do...
The issues with these engines...
1) first run (2004-2007) dropped valve seats
2) second run (2010 up) was seized roller lifters that wore out cams I heard that this was rectified by 2017 but who knows

My '07 is still running great at 120,000 miles. Pulls my 5000 lb boat like it's not there, and the Quadradrive II 4x4 system is phenominal on even the worst boat ramps.

they are great running engines when you get a good one.
I ALMOST bought a 3 year old Challenger Scat pack in '18 but I THOUGHT I heard that tick when it started up. Fast as all hell though. Still want one.

 

[OVERKILL]

More overheard trash talk:


"Buy a classic Dodge or Plymouth. Not an overweight E class mercedes with a pretend hemi.
You can keep callin' it a "hemi" but it don't make it true !"


https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1966/plymouth/satellite/101645735

Many of the street HEMI's didn't have fully hemispherical chambers anyways. The BOSS 429 didn't (though the 427SOHC did) because they had poor street manners and the low swirl at low engine speeds made them doggy and unresponsive. Putting a bit of a quench area in the chamber produced a big improvement.

 

[hrv]

Many of the street HEMI's didn't have fully hemispherical chambers anyways. The BOSS 429 didn't (though the 427SOHC did) because they had poor street manners and the low swirl at low engine speeds made them doggy and unresponsive. Putting a bit of a quench area in the chamber produced a big improvement.

If you are talking about the street hemi 426 from the mid 60s to the early 70s....they were ALL a true HEMI head....

 

[OVERKILL]

If you are talking about the street hemi 426 from the mid 60s to the early 70s....they were ALL a true HEMI head....

I should probably have noted that I'm using HEMI here in the colloquial manner, referring to anything using hemispherical-style chambers, kind of like how most facial tissue gets called "kleenex" despite both being brands from specific companies.

I was referring to Ford's pursuit of using HEMI chambers too, which started with the 427 SOHC, which had true hemispherical chambers:

and the Can-am and competition versions of the BOSS 429 also had fully hemispherical chambers, but they added a quench area on each side of the chamber for the street version, due to the reasons I mentioned, which they experienced with the 427 SOHC, but Chrysler also experienced with the 426:

Toyota used the area around the chamber as quench:

but also experimented with quench areas like Ford did:

Nissan did similar:

 

[hrv]

I should probably have noted that I'm using HEMI here in the colloquial manner, referring to anything using hemispherical-style chambers, kind of like how most facial tissue gets called "kleenex" despite both being brands from specific companies.

I was referring to Ford's pursuit of using HEMI chambers too, which started with the 427 SOHC, which had true hemispherical chambers:
View attachment 123055

and the Can-am and competition versions of the BOSS 429 also had fully hemispherical chambers, but they added a quench area on each side of the chamber for the street version, due to the reasons I mentioned, which they experienced with the 427 SOHC, but Chrysler also experienced with the 426:
View attachment 123056

Toyota used the area around the chamber as quench:
View attachment 123058

but also experimented with quench areas like Ford did:
View attachment 123059

Nissan did similar:
View attachment 123060

I had a 1973 dodge colt with a 1600 cc mitsubishi engine and it was a Hemi head 4 banger....I enjoyed your pictures you posted. Always loved the look of the Hemi and the 427 cammer and the boss 429....they looked fast just looking at them..

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Many of the street HEMI's didn't have fully hemispherical chambers anyways. The BOSS 429 didn't (though the 427SOHC did) because they had poor street manners and the low swirl at low engine speeds made them doggy and unresponsive. Putting a bit of a quench area in the chamber produced a big improvement.

The Hemi cants the intake valve away from the cylinder wall, improving flow but its canted toward the center of the chamber -but at least that has a gradual radius.

I liked the Mk I BB Chevy 409 head - flat as a ironing board , but used a land on the piston for quench.
Made 428 lb-ft of torque at 5200 rpm. 1 Hp per cu-in. in street tune. Not bad for 1963.

I think my '71 Audi 100LS pushrod Mercedes tractor engine I grenaded had no chamber either. IIRC.


Chevy W motor BB Head:

 

[LouC]

Back when Mobil 1 was the factory fill in Chrysler SRT engines (circa 2009 or so) I started using M1 5w/20 in my '07 Hemi 5.7 Hemi with MDS and kept using it despite the controversy about M1 not meeting FCA's spec (even tho some of Mobil's other oils do). Now 95,000 miles later still using M1, oil analyses are good, and lifter/camshaft seem to be doing just fine.
Still a big fan of the Hemi, will be mad at the clowns at Stellantis for discontinuing it, & won't buy anything new from them.

 

[OVERKILL]

The Hemi cants the intake valve away from the cylinder wall, improving flow but its canted toward the center of the chamber -but at least that has a gradual radius.

I liked the Mk I BB Chevy 409 head - flat as a ironing board , but used a land on the piston for quench.
Made 428 lb-ft of torque at 5200 rpm. 1 Hp per cu-in. in street tune. Not bad for 1963.

I think my '71 Audi 100LS pushrod Mercedes tractor engine I grenaded had no chamber either. IIRC.


Chevy W motor BB Head:

View attachment 123397

I've seen similar heads for the BOSS 429, think they were Mountain Motor heads.

Jon Kaase makes a small chamber head for the BOSS 429:

He sells package engines with these heads with HP ratings from 500-1000HP (and 1,500HP with a blower). These are all street engines.

Customers also have the option of a hydraulic or solid roller camshaft. Bear in mind that the 521ci version produces approximately 770 horsepower and 730 foot-pounds of torque with a hydraulic roller cam. Boss Nine engines are fitted with a single-plane intake manifold for a 4150 or 4500 style carburetor.

 

[LouC]

When I was just a kid 11 years old we lived around the corner from a Chrysler Plymouth dealer and I recall the day in 1966 when the first Hemi powered Plymouth showed up. Read all about the Hemi engine in Hot Rod magazine and heard the story about how it got banned in NASCAR & that caused ChryCo to bring it back. Which in turn resulted in Ford bringing out the “Shotgun” Boss 429….what a great time to be a car nut!

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I've seen similar heads for the BOSS 429, think they were Mountain Motor heads.

Jon Kaase makes a small chamber head for the BOSS 429:
View attachment 123401

Modern looking compact chambers - similar to the chevrolet LS. But a very different port x-section while maintaining the canted valve benefit. A different audience and final application on the BOSS VS LS/LT for sure

 

[OFFRD]

Mobil1 FS 0W-40

If we remove budget from the conversation too, then likely something in similar viscosity from HPL line-up.

Need I say more?

View attachment 122811

I saw VOAs and the Mobil 1 0W40 has a very different package vs Pennzoil 0W40. Mobil is very high on calcium for one thing. Does that not play into your decisions?

Also, early in this thread several folks said "any Euro 0W40 or 5W40" will do. What is it specifically that makes Euro oils good for this 392 engine that has no ties to Europe whatsoever?

I'm curious because I just bought one of these engines this year and I want to treat it the best.

 

[GR_CoB]

I saw VOAs and the Mobil 1 0W40 has a very different package vs Pennzoil 0W40. Mobil is very high on calcium for one thing. Does that not play into your decisions?

Also, early in this thread several folks said "any Euro 0W40 or 5W40" will do. What is it specifically that makes Euro oils good for this 392 engine that has no ties to Europe whatsoever?

I'm curious because I just bought one of these engines this year and I want to treat it the best.

It's not the Euro part that matters, but the fact that Euro oils are held to a higher standard than everything else. Not any oil can pass the testing and get certifications that Euro rated oils have.
Here is just one for example - Porsche A40. An oil has to be very stout to pass this certification with flying colors.

Here is Porsche A40 testing procedure:
This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through:
- 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving,
- 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving,
- 40 cold starts,
- 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, A full lap of the Nordschleife, bypassing the modern GP track, is 20.832 km (12.944 mi) long. A stock Chevrolet Corvette C5 has a lap record at Nurburgring @8:40, stock Honda S2000 has a record@8:39, and stock Honda NSX is @8:38. Considering these numbers, this Porsche A40 simulation is equal to 80-90 miles of flatout track use. Or 100-120 miles if you drive Porsche 911 GT2 R with its lap record @6:38.
- 3.5 hours of “running-in” program
Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not:
- torque curve (internal friction),
- oxidation of the oil,
- Piston cleanliness and ring sticking,
- Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm.
- Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible.
- Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method.
One more thing for comparison. Just a rough idea of how the numbers stack up. Take everything with a grain of salt.
Most daily driven cars have an average speed (over the course of an OCI) of about ~35mph. That would make the 203hr test an equivalent to 7,105 miles of driving.
Assuming the average speeds are higher, let's say 50mph, and the 203hrs are now equivalent to 10,150 miles of driving.

 

[Zee09]

Fuchs
5W40 Titan Supersyn Long Life Engine Oil

 

[OVERKILL]

I saw VOAs and the Mobil 1 0W40 has a very different package vs Pennzoil 0W40. Mobil is very high on calcium for one thing. Does that not play into your decisions?

Also, early in this thread several folks said "any Euro 0W40 or 5W40" will do. What is it specifically that makes Euro oils good for this 392 engine that has no ties to Europe whatsoever?

I'm curious because I just bought one of these engines this year and I want to treat it the best.

The original SRT oil (M1 0W-40) was a Euro oil. The current version of FS 0W-40 has much lower calcium, due to now being SP, but that's really immaterial, as the HEMI is port injected, so there's no LSPI concerns.

The Euro oils have passed considerably more testing than the Pennzoil 0W-40, which was cooked up in a hurry to replace M1 0W-40 when Mobil was swapped out for Shell after the Fiat merger.

 

[hemioiler]

I'm curious because I just bought one of these engines this year and I want to treat it the best.

HPL is that way --> https://www.advlubrication.com/collections/automotive-lubricants

Either the SuperCar formula or even the basic PCMO on a 5k/1 year OCI is more than enough for an ancient hemi. My truck has had PCMO, PremiumPlus and No VII but right now it's mostly on the cheapest PCMO because it's an excellent oil and I don't need better cold starts or longer OCI intervals or more sheer stability.